hazzgar

British TD changes

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9qeSr0lL5Lw-1024x683.jpgSo WG decided to change some TDs:

Sorry it's Polish but you can use google translate:

http://rykoszet.info/2017/08/03/zmiany-niszczycieli-czolgow-wielka-brytania/#comment-37773

 

Challenger and Conway get better guns. The shitbarn will be a bit faster and will turn the turret faster

Coway gets more gun depression and no prem round with 260pen standard round which is idiotic but 770alpha 200pen hesh round will wreck lower triers. Especially now that it will go 50kph. The tank may not suit the meta but I'm glad I haven't sold mine.

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Only thing good about the Conway was the gun, nothing else. I dunno if it's better after these changes. It just feel so clumsy.

FV4005 is just shit. No armor what so ever, no camo, no mobility. No gun depression, useless turret, which doesnt even fully rotate. They should just replace it with something else...

Charioteer is the only half decent tank in the line. The tier6 could be good, but the lack of gun depression kills it totally. Having just a couple of degrees doesnt make sense in an open top turret.

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Will the Conway lose its 120mm gun completely or will it stay as option? 

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Basically...

Shitbarn-changes are irrelevant as it lacks the enginepower to reach that topspeed on flat ground anyway, plus with the buffed turrettraverse the gunhandeling will become even worse...

Atleast it gets better reversespeed I guess.

 

FV4004 gets a 14 cm gun, nice to have an alternative I guess, though I think it is inferior to the current 120mm.

Disregarding the difference in DPM, having HESH as gold ammo simply doesn't work with the current superheavy-meta and with only 200 pen you will struggle to even pen a lot of meds.

The buffed speed will help for sure.

Also, without having google translate available, it looks like they buffed the gundepression to 10°?

If yes, you will have a pretty  dank "medium" as long as it gets to keep its current 120mm.

 

As for challanger, confirmed for not being shit anymore?:serb:

 

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The Challenger gets a 2 Pounder? What? A 280 damage-dealing 2 pounder with 220 pen? 7.8s reload speed for a 40mm gun, which equals some 35 DPS? What? Ok, giving them the benefit of the doubt, but either that is an unannounced autoloader, or a typo and it being a 20pounder with uncharacteristically high damage, or a typo and it being the 32 pounder with wierd damage (and being way too large for the chassis) or a typo and it's a gun that I can not put anywhere in the current gun-progression of the game as it may be completely new.

As for Conway changes, much needed. 50km/h top speed sets it apart from the Conqueror, but it still doesn't have the engine-grunt to get there. 10° gun-depression? Great and very welcome, the vehicle needed some positional-flexibility improvements, nothing to complain here, though increasing every vehicles gun-depression recently, doesn't really make this as much of an improvement as it should be. As for the 140mm gun, hm, interesting choice. 260mm of penetration is not an autopen on the sueprheavies, but sure more than enough for everything else. The Cent 7/1 works with a similar layout, high pen standard-shell, premium-HESH and regular HESH, so why not a TD with a whole lot more alpha behind the the HESH. I don't see a reason to complain, as the 120mm possibly still remains as a choice and a valid one at that. Choice an options are good, hmkay? Plus it gives the vehicle some kind of progression and gameplay-tie to the shitbarn, which it kinda lacked before, so hooray. As for the FV4005? Meh. Top speed increase is just like with the Conway. Without the according grunt in the engine, it's fairly worthless and as such, still vastely nferor to the FV215b 183.

All in all, good changes, though not enough. I will remain sceptical on these changes being real, until the 2 Pounder thing gets adressed. This is just plain wierd.

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18 minutes ago, Madner Kami said:

The Challenger gets a 2 Pounder? What? A 280 damage-dealing 2 pounder with 220 pen?

Pretty sure it is a typo and it should mean 20 or 32 Pounder. Both those Tortoise guns come pretty close to this stats. 

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39 minutes ago, Madner Kami said:

As for Conway changes, much needed. 50km/h top speed sets it apart from the Conqueror, but it still doesn't have the engine-grunt to get there.

The enginepower of the Conway is enough to reach its new topspeed, it is the FV4005 that gets fucked because it gets the stockengine of the  Conway for some reason.

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1 hour ago, NIborGER said:

Interestingly wot-news.com also lists 180° turret traverse and +8/-10° gunelevation/depression for the shitbarn

Furthermore it says the challanger gets a 32-pr gun

149zx0ogkao.jpghttp://wot-news.com/main/postmsg/243710/45837/3/izmenenija-britanskikh-pt

Conversely, that also means that both Challenger and Conway get their full turret traverse revoked? Makes sense given the sizes of the gun, from a realistic point of view that is (when can we expect KV2 to topple over while firing their gun sideways then, WG?), Conway can live with that, Challenger though? Hm, not so much imo.

P.S.: Also, this 32 pounder is quite a step up from the current 17 pounder. Why is the 20 pounder being skipped altogether? Have they finally gotten the notion, that the 20 pounder is too weak for a heavy-weight gun in relation to it's current position in the tech-tree? Getting the feeling there might be a leak about british heavies pretty soon.

P.P.S.: Also, this leaves the Charioteer in a pretty awkward position. You come from the Challenger, that has a gun that has both more alpha and more penetration than the Charioteer's stock-guns, to the Charioteer with the 20 pounder Type A and, after some painful grinding, the 20 pounder Type B, both of which come from nowhere and lead nowhere on that line. Hm... I do suppose, the propopsed 32 pounder is a nice step in-between the 20 pounders and the L7, so allowing it to carry over wouldn't be wrong, despite the 32 pounder being carried over instantly obsoletes the availability of the historic 20 pounder on the Charioteer completely. I expect them to get kicked down a tier (which fits in with their first appearence on the other TD-line of the brits) then, either making the 32 pounder a side-grade or one of many steps to go through on the Challenger, which neatly smoothes the grind on that tank considerably.

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56 minutes ago, Madner Kami said:

Conversely, that also means that both Challenger and Conway get their full turret traverse revoked? Makes sense given the sizes of the gun, from a realistic point of view that is (when can we expect KV2 to topple over while firing their gun sideways then, WG?), Conway can live with that, Challenger though? Hm, not so much imo.

I'm not so sure, or rather, they may get 360 degrees total. It may be more a result of wargamming's code than anything else. Traverse is given not in 360 degrees, but 180 degrees, positive and negative (it's like that in the game files). It makes it more straightforward to code as you don't have to go 175-185 for a 10 degree gun arc, but -5 and +5. It could be limited, but I don't know. It could be because they adjusted gun depression arcs (where gun depression might be less) that traverse arc shows up as a change despite not changing.

Either way, limiting the challenger's traverse would be extremely hard, if not kill the tank despite the gun changes. If it's exclusive to the gun, that's another thing.

One thing that I thought was odd, is listing the 52/20 speed limit of the challenger. It already has that, so perhaps there are some terrain resistance changes (currently 1/1.1/1.7) coming. 

In so far as stability was concerned, both tanks had no real problems, and a larger gun (which was tested in the case of the challenger) would unlike change that. Meanwhile, the FV4005 firing spade was actually seriously discussed to be split into 2 as it was not ideally stable with the single one.

56 minutes ago, Madner Kami said:

P.S.: Also, this 32 pounder is quite a step up from the current 17 pounder. Why is the 20 pounder being skipped altogether? Have they finally gotten the notion, that the 20 pounder is too weak for a heavy-weight gun in relation to it's current position in the tech-tree? Getting the feeling there might be a leak about british heavies pretty soon.

There is a historical basis for the 32 pounder, at the very least. One prototype mounted a more heavily armoured challenger turret, and 3.7" gun. The 3.7" gun would undergo continued AT development and end up as the 32 pounder.

56 minutes ago, Madner Kami said:

P.P.S.: Also, this leaves the Charioteer in a pretty awkward position. You come from the Challenger, that has a gun that has both more alpha and more penetration than the Charioteer's stock-guns, to the Charioteer with the 20 pounder Type A and, after some painful grinding, the 20 pounder Type B, both of which come from nowhere and lead nowhere on that line. Hm... I do suppose, the propopsed 32 pounder is a nice step in-between the 20 pounders and the L7, so allowing it to carry over wouldn't be wrong, despite the 32 pouner being carried over instantly obsoletes the 20 availability of the historic 20 pounder on the Charioteer completely. Hm... Interesting times.

The 32 pounder to me, may be indicative of the changes to other british lines. The 32 pounder does appear elsewhere on the tree (though this module is differently named as Mark II). Right now, the Churchill gun carrier and the AT 15. Most notably for me, however, is the potential caernarvon changes. The new turret seen for the tank, was tested with a 32 pounder. There is even (to a degree) for to see a 3.7" derivative on the black prince.

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4004 Loses some traverse angle no ?

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32 minutes ago, Ogopogo said:

I'm not so sure, or rather, they may get 360 degrees total. It may be more a result of wargamming's code than anything else. Traverse is given not in 360 degrees, but 180 degrees, positive and negative (it's like that in the game files). It makes it more straightforward to code as you don't have to go 175-185 for a 10 degree gun arc, but -5 and +5. It could be limited, but I don't know. It could be because they adjusted gun depression arcs (where gun depression might be less) that traverse arc shows up as a change despite not changing.

Either way, limiting the challenger's traverse would be extremely hard, if not kill the tank despite the gun changes. If it's exclusive to the gun, that's another thing.

One thing that I thought was odd, is listing the 52/20 speed limit of the challenger. It already has that, so perhaps there are some terrain resistance changes (currently 1/1.1/1.7) coming. 

In so far as stability was concerned, both tanks had no real problems, and a larger gun (which was tested in the case of the challenger) would unlike change that. Meanwhile, the FV4005 firing spade was actually seriously discussed to be split into 2 as it was not ideally stable with the single one.

There is a historical basis for the 32 pounder, at the very least. One prototype mounted a more heavily armoured challenger turret, and 3.7" gun. The 3.7" gun would undergo continued AT development and end up as the 32 pounder.

The 32 pounder to me, may be indicative of the changes to other british lines. The 32 pounder does appear elsewhere on the tree (though this module is differently named as Mark II). Right now, the Churchill gun carrier and the AT 15. Most notably for me, however, is the potential caernarvon changes. The new turret seen for the tank, was tested with a 32 pounder. There is even (to a degree) for to see a 3.7" derivative on the black prince.

Wait, you are right with the turret rotation! This means the FV4005 gets a fully traversable turret(!), the Conway retains full rotation and the Challenger will have a 120° blind spot over the rear of the tank.

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9 minutes ago, Madner Kami said:

Wait, you are right with the turret rotation! This means the FV4005 gets a fully traversable turret(!), the Conway retains full rotation and the Challenger will have a 120° blind spot over the rear of the tank.

It really depends on what they meant by listing the traverse like that, and if they are gun specific. I'm not 100% certain it's like I think it is.

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48 minutes ago, Madner Kami said:

Wait, you are right with the turret rotation! This means the FV4005 gets a fully traversable turret(!), the Conway retains full rotation and the Challenger will have a 120° blind spot over the rear of the tank.

Full traverse and 10 degrees of gun depression. That is a lot

4 hours ago, SaintLaurentius said:

 

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4 hours ago, Madner Kami said:

As for Conway changes, much needed. 50km/h top speed sets it apart from the Conqueror, but it still doesn't have the engine-grunt to get there.

Conway actually has near 19 HP/ton and doesn't suffer from bad terrain resistance. It will have zero issue hitting 50.

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10 minutes ago, SchnitzelTruck said:

Conway actually has near 19 HP/ton and doesn't suffer from bad terrain resistance. It will have zero issue hitting 50.

And in other news of facepalming-facepalminess of things you should never publically admit to, I just had a look. I remember the Conway being rather sluggish as hell and I only played it a few days ago, so I now had a look. 13.something HP/ton, according to the garage-stats. Before I came back here to state my bewilderment at your and Fabunil's statement, I checked the tech-tree...

aTU1HsY.jpg

I feel so stupid now. How the fluff did I miss upgrading the engine?! FML o.O

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To be honest I kinda feel cursed. I went through both t9 foch and conway grind. I think i need to grind more t9s so they will get buffed after I finish.

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Another piece of information from wot-news.com: apperently 180° for the fv4005 means 90° to the left and 90° to the right. Furthermore the dispersion on turret traverse gets buffed from 0.34 to 0.3. At least what i can understand using google translator. Link: http://wot-news.com/main/postmsg/243747/45839/3/izmenenija-pt-anglii-v-cifrakh

So snapshooting with fv4005 becomes almost viable. The aimcircle will now match just a quarter of the map and not half of it.

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You'll probably get that 4004 Conway gun down to a nice 12.5 second reload or better. With 10 degrees and 200 pen 770 damage shots (which btw are still on par pen wise with lights and some mediums) the thing will be beast.

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40 minutes ago, Veo said:

You'll probably get that 4004 Conway gun down to a nice 12.5 second reload or better. With 10 degrees and 200 pen 770 damage shots (which btw are still on par pen wise with lights and some mediums) the thing will be beast.

50kmh is also a massive plus since it will hit it relatively easily

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1 hour ago, SchnitzelTruck said:

50kmh is also a massive plus since it will hit it relatively easily

Losing half of a circle of traverse worth it ? Not like you can pull back by driving forward anymore

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34 minutes ago, Unavailebow said:

Losing half of a circle of traverse worth it ? Not like you can pull back by driving forward anymore

Doesn't really matter, Conway has very good traverse speed by TD standards

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7 hours ago, Veo said:

You'll probably get that 4004 Conway gun down to a nice 12.5 second reload or better. With 10 degrees and 200 pen 770 damage shots (which btw are still on par pen wise with lights and some mediums) the thing will be beast.

Will all the lights runing around it's a viable round. 

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7 hours ago, Veo said:

You'll probably get that 4004 Conway gun down to a nice 12.5 second reload or better. With 10 degrees and 200 pen 770 damage shots (which btw are still on par pen wise with lights and some mediums) the thing will be beast.

Defender has around a 1 sec longer base reload and you can get that thing down to 11.69

So probably in the mid-high 10's

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