kaneaaa

The new mm is an improvement but it's also a total mess. But why?

67 posts in this topic

There are a number of issues withe the current mm. Although I think 357 is a good tier division in team composition I've never seen so much anger in general from the player Base and vocal dissatisfaction from cc s. Issues as follows: 

 

1. Pref mm tanks are screwed. 

2. Tank balance totally destroyed at p2w tiers, therefore what's the point in tier balance (effectively you have tier 7s 8s and 9s all classed as tier 8), so tier division means what. 

3. Older premiums unusable. Or new premiums disgusting. 

People are fed up, asking for refunds over defunct purchases but does that sentiment really result in reduced profits? And is tank balance now at the point of being irreparably broken? Will players be finally put off?  

 

And behind the calm exterior of pr, is wg in a crisis of direction? 

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Game has had many improvements over two years but I think that tank balance was much better two years ago as a whole. Few years back game had some OP tanks but now they have gone totally overboard with armor buffs and new premiums and it is hurting the game if not their profits. Some tier8 premiums should be made tier9 premiums and that would already make the game better balance-wise. Nerf most jap heavies as they are completely stupid yet dominate their tiers. Rework gold ammo to make it more regular i.e. lessen the damage for more pen. Arty is fine now, annoying but fine. Go back to more historical tanks and armor schemes and tweak their stats / tiers to give game more content. Nerf some autoloaders so that they can´t yolo people down at their will. Nerf russian hovermed mobility to make high tier lights have some niche.

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Pref MM tanks are the opposite of screwed IMO, pref tanks are now pretty much required to play premiums. 

new MM is terrible because tier 10s can't find damn games. tier 8s constantly get tier 10 games because tier 10s can't find games, so tier 6s end up getting stuck with the pref 8s, and it just spirals from there. 

 

the whole thing comes down to server population: on RU its fine, on EU its probably also fine. on NA its a disaster. on ASIA Im not sure? 

also overall tank balance was better a while ago. we didn't have retarded tanks like the STRV/Defender etc. WG wasn't constantly overbuffing the shit out of things a la Maus/Type 5. And they keep trying to "fix" things that don't need fixing a la Batchat (though thankfully they've gone back on that now) 

I also find Mauzorator or whatever his name is to be a retarded "head of balance" or whatever he is, and 80% of his changes or proposed changes are all fucking stupid. seriously. fire him and bring back SerB. I'd literally rather have SerB or even storm doing this stuff, the game hit its high point with them in charge. Like them or hate them they probably would do a better job of un fucking this shit than anyone else at this stage. 

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13 minutes ago, Assassin7 said:

Pref MM tanks are the opposite of screwed IMO, pref tanks are now pretty much required to play premiums. 

new MM is terrible because tier 10s can't find damn games. tier 8s constantly get tier 10 games because tier 10s can't find games, so tier 6s end up getting stuck with the pref 8s, and it just spirals from there. 

 

the whole thing comes down to server population: on RU its fine, on EU its probably also fine. on NA its a disaster. on ASIA Im not sure? 

also overall tank balance was better a while ago. we didn't have retarded tanks like the STRV/Defender etc. WG wasn't constantly overbuffing the shit out of things a la Maus/Type 5. And they keep trying to "fix" things that don't need fixing a la Batchat (though thankfully they've gone back on that now) 

I also find Mauzorator or whatever his name is to be a retarded "head of balance" or whatever he is, and 80% of his changes or proposed changes are all fucking stupid. seriously. fire him and bring back SerB. I'd literally rather have SerB or even storm doing this stuff, the game hit its high point with them in charge. Like them or hate them they probably would do a better job of un fucking this shit than anyone else at this stage. 

I agree with a lot of what you say. However I've heard a huge amount of complaints about pref mm tanks. I think the argument is that apparently they are far more at the bottom tier than the top. I don't know if someone has raw data for this. Or could someone enlighten me about what exactly is the (perceived) problem with pref MM. 

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5 minutes ago, kaneaaa said:

I agree with a lot of what you say. However I've heard a huge amount of complaints about pref mm tanks. I think the argument is that apparently they are far more at the bottom tier than the top. I don't know if someone has raw data for this. Or could someone enlighten me about what exactly is the (perceived) problem with pref MM. 

well, regular 8s are at the bottom all the time as well so I hardly see the reason to complain about pref tanks honestly. at least with pref tanks bottom tier means you're seeing tier 9s at most

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I'd like to throw with another thing out. Is the blatant overbuffing of certain top tiers of tank lines as well as the op premium policy an act of back-against-the-wall desperation. For me trying to judge the situation objectively there seems to be no advantage for a company to advertise a blatant p2w policy unless their hand was forced. Is this whole late strategy a knee-jerk reaction to running out of options. They must have known that this strategy would cause public opinion to worsen, yet they unashamedly pursued this route regardless. Why? 

6 minutes ago, Assassin7 said:

well, regular 8s are at the bottom all the time as well so I hardly see the reason to complain about pref tanks honestly. at least with pref tanks bottom tier means you're seeing tier 9s at most

Maybe it has to do with the op premiums instead, as I guess their weaker design would suffer more ( Is6 is a massive irritataion judging by wot forum). Someone must have some data. 

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2 hours ago, Assassin7 said:

Pref MM tanks are the opposite of screwed IMO, pref tanks are now pretty much required to play premiums. 

new MM is terrible because tier 10s can't find damn games. tier 8s constantly get tier 10 games because tier 10s can't find games, so tier 6s end up getting stuck with the pref 8s, and it just spirals from there. 

 

the whole thing comes down to server population: on RU its fine, on EU its probably also fine. on NA its a disaster. on ASIA Im not sure? 

also overall tank balance was better a while ago. we didn't have retarded tanks like the STRV/Defender etc. WG wasn't constantly overbuffing the shit out of things a la Maus/Type 5. And they keep trying to "fix" things that don't need fixing a la Batchat (though thankfully they've gone back on that now) 

I also find Mauzorator or whatever his name is to be a retarded "head of balance" or whatever he is, and 80% of his changes or proposed changes are all fucking stupid. seriously. fire him and bring back SerB. I'd literally rather have SerB or even storm doing this stuff, the game hit its high point with them in charge. Like them or hate them they probably would do a better job of un fucking this shit than anyone else at this stage. 

WoT ASIA is populated by hardcore military otaku from Japan, Korea and to a lesser extent, Taiwan. It's userbase is small but stable.

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1 minute ago, lavawing said:

WoT ASIA is populated by hardcore military otaku from Japan, Korea and to a lesser extent, Taiwan. It's userbase is small but stable.

hows the MM queues? do tier 10s get games? like can you platoon and find a game in under 1 minute reliably? on NA platoon at tier 10 = 3+ minute wait time regardless of server or time of day. 

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1 minute ago, Assassin7 said:

hows the MM queues? do tier 10s get games? like can you platoon and find a game in under 1 minute reliably? on NA platoon at tier 10 = 3+ minute wait time regardless of server or time of day. 

I don't have friends so not sure about platooning tier 10s. But you can get games under 1 minute. And same as everywhere else Tier 8 tanks are screwed by MM, and pref MM tanks screwed by other Tier 8s.

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2 hours ago, Assassin7 said:

Pref MM tanks are the opposite of screwed IMO, pref tanks are now pretty much required to play premiums. 

new MM is terrible because tier 10s can't find damn games. tier 8s constantly get tier 10 games because tier 10s can't find games, so tier 6s end up getting stuck with the pref 8s, and it just spirals from there. 

Expect this is absolutely not the case on EU. Pref MM tanks are even worse than regular tier 8s now.

On EU, you get very often into full tier 8 match or 5-10 tier 8/9 with your preff MM tanks. What the hell is the point of sacrificing 40mm of penetration if you still keep meeting mostly same tier tanks or tier 9s? When I played KV-5 i didnt really see tier 6-7 any more often than with regular tier 8s. 

FCM 50t is maybe different because it has pen, however every other pref tier 8 is absolutely horrible now. IS-6 is trash because lmao 217 APCR against overbuffed premiums and superheavies, KV-5 same story, Spershing has atleast gold pen but it still relied on seeing lowtiers so its screwed too, type 59 and T-34-3 are kinda screwed too because of pen and JT88 is just useless junk in general. And while FCM has good pen, I would say that big majority here thinks that FCM is also shit these days.

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2 minutes ago, leggasiini said:

Expect this is absolutely not the case on EU. Pref MM tanks are even worse than regular tier 8s now.

On EU, you get very often into full tier 8 match or 5-10 tier 8/9 with your preff MM tanks. What the hell is the point of sacrificing 40mm of penetration if you still keep meeting mostly same tier tanks or tier 9s? When I played KV-5 i didnt really see tier 6-7 any more often than with regular tier 8s. 

FCM 50t is maybe different because it has pen, however every other pref tier 8 is absolutely horrible now. IS-6 is trash because lmao 217 APCR against overbuffed premiums and superheavies, KV-5 same story, Spershing has atleast gold pen but it still relied on seeing lowtiers so its screwed too, type 59 and T-34-3 are kinda screwed too because of pen and JT88 is just useless junk in general. And while FCM has good pen, I would say that big majority here thinks that FCM is also shit these days.

hmm, on NA if you are in a regular 8 you get tier 10. if you're in a pref 8 you get tier 9. I know what I'd pick.

I just finished a session playing the Type 59 actually, I had no real issues (well, penning issues. hitting things was another matter entirely #justtype59things) FCM is still a great tank. don't see why anyone would hate on it honestly. 

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18 minutes ago, leggasiini said:

Expect this is absolutely not the case on EU. Pref MM tanks are even worse than regular tier 8s now.

On EU, you get very often into full tier 8 match or 5-10 tier 8/9 with your preff MM tanks. What the hell is the point of sacrificing 40mm of penetration if you still keep meeting mostly same tier tanks or tier 9s? When I played KV-5 i didnt really see tier 6-7 any more often than with regular tier 8s. 

FCM 50t is maybe different because it has pen, however every other pref tier 8 is absolutely horrible now. IS-6 is trash because lmao 217 APCR against overbuffed premiums and superheavies, KV-5 same story, Spershing has atleast gold pen but it still relied on seeing lowtiers so its screwed too, type 59 and T-34-3 are kinda screwed too because of pen and JT88 is just useless junk in general. And while FCM has good pen, I would say that big majority here thinks that FCM is also shit these days.

18 minutes ago, leggasiini said:

Expect this is absolutely not the case on EU. Pref MM tanks are even worse than regular tier 8s now.

On EU, you get very often into full tier 8 match or 5-10 tier 8/9 with your preff MM tanks. What the hell is the point of sacrificing 40mm of penetration if you still keep meeting mostly same tier tanks or tier 9s? When I played KV-5 i didnt really see tier 6-7 any more often than with regular tier 8s. 

FCM 50t is maybe different because it has pen, however every other pref tier 8 is absolutely horrible now. IS-6 is trash because lmao 217 APCR against overbuffed premiums and superheavies, KV-5 same story, Spershing has atleast gold pen but it still relied on seeing lowtiers so its screwed too, type 59 and T-34-3 are kinda screwed too because of pen and JT88 is just useless junk in general. And while FCM has good pen, I would say that big majority here thinks that FCM is also shit these days.

 

 

2 hours ago, Assassin7 said:

well, regular 8s are at the bottom all the time as well so I hardly see the reason to complain about pref tanks honestly. at least with pref tanks bottom tier means you're seeing tier 9s at most

 

 

I can remember only a short time ago (really it was quite recent) that people were complaining that the Is6 was op and the fcm was the top credit earning premium. It's amazing and pretty shocking how wg can turn a high-perfirming £30 investment from an unsuspecting customer into a piece of garbage in a very short amount of type ( while not legally "NERFING" IT) MAYBE there's just something wrong with the law, as the spirit of the law regarding nerfing is being obviously thrown into the bin. 

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Id much rather fight against only 3 tier 10s in a battle with a Defender or Löwe than fight against 5 tier 9s with a pretty much any tier 8 pref heavy tank

When it comes to meds (50t is a med as we all know) its maybe not that bad tho (then again...how many pref mm meds there even are? FCM...and T-34-3? Type 59 is hard to get and Spershing isnt a real medium sooo...) but pref tier 8 heavies are simply aids VS regular mm tier 8s. The powergap between pref MTs and regular MTs is also way smaller than gap between pref tier 8 HTs and regular tier 8 HTs soo. The tier 8 pref HTs also relied on bullying lowtiers more than pref MTs I would say

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I see very few FCMs in play now. People seem to have lost interest in it. 

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11 minutes ago, kaneaaa said:

I see very few FCMs in play now. People seem to have lost interest in it. 

The FCM was decent when it could penetrate most tanks frontally without having to spam gold, nowadays it is just a sluggish medium with a mediocre gun, useless armor and mediocre mobility that almost exclusivly sees tier 8 and 9 vehicles.

Basically it never was a very good tank to begin with and got powercreeped to hell.

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It used to be the top credit earner though. Oh well. 

 

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I stopped playing my FCM because of the MM. One day prior to this decision I record all the games I had with respect to the tiers I saw. Tier 9 was the top of the list by almost two-thirds. Then came all tier 8 games. Granted a tier 9 match isn't the end of the world BUT it is difficult to carry teams in tier 9 games when everything pens you. 

So I stopped, just wasn't fun in that tank. 

 

I agree with @Fabunil. It wasn't a great tank but at least when I had bought it, in the right hands you'd be very effective, but it needs a team...one which can hold a flank long enough. Can't tell you how many times today within 4mins I realize half my team is gone... 

 

Today it isn't as effective, it isn't as flexible, it isn't as great. I hope one day they do something with it. 

 

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3 hours ago, Assassin7 said:

the whole thing comes down to server population: on RU its fine, on EU its probably also fine. on NA its a disaster. on ASIA Im not sure? 

3

Maybe the solution is CT based server, one for all regions. That way all deserted regions could play with even more players. - china with retarded tanks. 

Also one thing, EU has EUROPE for CW map, what other regions have? North America? 

 

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The objective was simple- incentivize play at tiers 9 and 10 via improving their MM. And that caused the chain reaction of the tiers below being disproportionately dragged into higher tier games. That whole line of "bottom tiers having easier matchups" was frankly dishonest. There may be fewer high tiers per match, but more matches with high tiers, so the net rate of dealing with -2 scenarios stays roughly the same, while the rate of +2 scenarios is much lower. Being funneled into corridors doesn't help either.

But the much more interesting question to ask is just how much brown-nosing the MM has to do to tiers 9 and 10 to justify not just grinding that far but also staying there afterward. These are expensive tiers to play, and ultimately the whole WoT project depends on players' willingness to throw credits away at these tiers.

Naturally, I maintain that the solution is as simple as ever. Get MM to set up +/-1 and same-tier matches as often as physically possible. NA may be forced into +/-2 because of its smaller population, but the closer to same-tier you can get, the less that the game will need ridiculous gimmicks like +/-25% RNG for the sake of evening out lopsided matchups. If we can ever get to the point where bugs game features like that become obsolete and are eventually done away with (please Lord, may it come to pass speedily in our days), then perhaps there'll be enough enthusiasm to bring some of the lost population back.

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I get most of the time tier x and ix games with my mutz. Rarely i see the rest of mm possibilities. Playing tier 6s post patch i saw only 3 tier iv games which had made me think tier 4s had got special mm.

Altough comparing the game to how it was with the old mm i feel i can do more now when bottom tier than before because i can play a better role at supporting than just a meat shield.

The real problem in my opinion is the huge gap between tier tens/nines and tier eights. Too much alpha not enough dpm ect. If you compare a tier 8 with a tier 9 medium the difference is huge if you just look at both alpha and dpm. And this explains why tier 9s still manage to compete with tier tens, because while they are inferior they are not that inferior ( example: jt with jpe100 altough some might say jt is better you get my point. Another example would be t54 vs obj140/62a). 

Same goes between tier 6s and 8s but a tier 6 medium  can still be dangerous due to the strong rof, mobility and dpm.

If instead you compare a tier 7 to a tier 9 while you do see a big difference, a t29 or a tiger 1 can still pull their weight in a bottom tier game. And while this is true for those tanks such can not be said for a t43 or an a44, for example, because they are terrible. 

So to conclude and if you find this TL;DR the real problem is how poorly tanks are balanced and how bad are some compared to other of the same tier. So they either give us a +/- 1 mm or they learn how to balance this game. 

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12 minutes ago, BlackAdder said:

Maybe the solution is CT based server, one for all regions. That way all deserted regions could play with even more players. - china with retarded tanks. 

Also one thing, EU has EUROPE for CW map, what other regions have? North America? 

 

NA has America at least.

Also, a central server. Where would you put it? I get 300-350 ping to EU, 400 to RU. Thats not playable in the slightest. A friend in the south island of NZ plays at 300 ping to NA, they would be playing at 500 ping to EU or more to RU. Wherever you put it, someones going to get cucked.

I think the first and foremost thing to.do would be to merge the NA and ASIA servers. The least people get cucked the least in that case, maybe have a server in central NA, and then for the same region have a server in ASIA somewhere, like NA east or NA west. Therefore we get the most population.

 

Per FCM: i still consider it a good tank. I never had issues with its pen before and dont have any now. Sure i have to fight defenders and shit, but what ever. 

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4 hours ago, Assassin7 said:

new MM is terrible because tier 10s can't find damn games. tier 8s constantly get tier 10 games because tier 10s can't find games, so tier 6s end up getting stuck with the pref 8s, and it just spirals from there. 

 

the whole thing comes down to server population: on RU its fine, on EU its probably also fine. on NA its a disaster. on ASIA Im not sure? 

Serverpopulation only affect overall queue time, the problem with the new MM is the huge differences in popularity between the tiers.

Tier 8 is vastly more popular than any other tier thanks to all the tier 8 premiums (there are more than twice as many tier 8 players than tier 7 players regardless of the server) and there are only so many toptier-matches the matchmaker can generate as you need 2 tier 7s for each tier 8 (even if you put all tier 7 and 6 tanks into bottomtier matches every time they queue up, you still wouldn't have enough tanks to meet the demand for toptier matches of tier 8).

As a result it just dumps all those tanks into pure tier 8 games instead while they still get to see all those lovely tier 9/10 tanks and voilà, you have the current situation with tier 8.

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WG hasn't directly nerf any premium that i owe yet i have a bunch of useless premiums in my garage today. 

 

This is the boiling frog parable.  And wg was able to test it out on a grand scale... and it worked..

 

 

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6 hours ago, Assassin7 said:

Pref MM tanks are the opposite of screwed IMO, pref tanks are now pretty much required to play premiums.

Tell that to anything that gets its pref MM at the expense of a D-25T.

3 hours ago, kaneaaa said:

It used to be the top credit earner though. Oh well. 

 

The FV4202 buff happened. Why play an FCM now the 4202 can get out of spawn and has a smaller profile and 24mm more pen?

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43 minutes ago, DHP said:

WG hasn't directly nerf any premium that i owe yet i have a bunch of useless premiums in my garage today. 

 

This is the boiling frog parable.  And wg was able to test it out on a grand scale... and it worked..

 

 

And surely that shows there's something wrong with the law. What's the point in protecting players from nerfing when the same results can be achieved a number of other ways. 

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