kaneaaa

The new mm is an improvement but it's also a total mess. But why?

67 posts in this topic

Before 9.18 tiers 6-7 were unplayable on SEA. After 9.18 tier 8 was. But at some point during the last week I stopped being bottom tier every fucking game in my two tier 8 premium MTs. Either enough people gave up playing tier 8 or WG have gone some way towards fixing the problem. 

Every other tier I play is easier to play. The top 3 tanks are so often made up of arty, lights, and TDs, that mid-tier MTs and HTs feel like they're top tier anyway. 

I rage sold my Cromwell before 9.18 and the only tier 7 I would dare take out was  my T29. Now I play tier 6-7 and 9 for fun. And it has actually been more fun than pure frustration a lot of the time. Just don't have any credits cause tier 8. But if they fix that, which they may have...

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9 hours ago, BlackAdder said:

So you are saying that most of time (228/250) you were bottom feeder? 

I didn’t log anything but in my opinion 3/5/7 is better than MM before. You still have 7 targets to shoot, and possibly 5 more. 

Bottom tier yes, feeder no. I pulled 70%+ win rates on all of them during the 3 mark runs.

ISU-152, Charioteer performed better as bottom tier.

Lowe, press 22 and it contributes just fine.

(scout mm) SP1c, TVP VTU were done with 5 skill crews + food... sufficient to vision abuse most t10 meds.

The only tank that failed is T34... because I derped and got 1 shotted by a FV183 2 games in a row at 94.97%. It dropped me below 92%, causing me to throw the towel.

----

Post 3/5/7, the only one I recorded is UDES after fully upgrading it. (68% win rate)

145 battles, 13 of them was 13v13 and not 15v15

72x tier 10 battles, 63x 3/5/7, 9x 2/4/7

44x tier 9 battles, 32x 5/10, 10x 3/5/7, 2x 4/9

29x tier 8 battles, 6x 3/5/7, 2x 5/10, 19x 15v15, 2x 13v13

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7 hours ago, kaneaaa said:

Whats wrong with +1/-1 matchmaking instead? Surely its better. 

Is it? Why? At least same tier games would be very boring very fast. Also, you have to remember that -2/+2 MM is part of the income model, there needs to be reason for people to use prem ammo and therefore buy premium account and premium tanks. WOT is a product that they need to make money on also, every decision can't be made only based on what would be best for the game. So comparing 3-5-7 to +1/-1 MM is not very realistic. If that is what you mean with gold sink culture, then yes, that is the case, and that is the nature of F2P game. 

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22 minutes ago, HS5 said:

Is it? Why? At least same tier games would be very boring very fast. Also, you have to remember that -2/+2 MM is part of the income model, there needs to be reason for people to use prem ammo and therefore buy premium account and premium tanks. WOT is a product that they need to make money on also, every decision can't be made only based on what would be best for the game. So comparing 3-5-7 to +1/-1 MM is not very realistic. If that is what you mean with gold sink culture, then yes, that is the case, and that is the nature of F2P game. 

Imagine game full of T50s or E50s stomping poor T8 guys with full APCR spam. I think +1/-1 would be lot of fucking pain to balance out. 

 

Also i think this would be another shit storm, my tank is again bottom tier. 

But @Hally presented some data, and it turns out no matter how MM is / was bad you can dish out dmg and get result. Problem is many players rather complain than improve. 

 

For me (without too much data on new MM) it’s better, because it gives you opportunities to club clueless tier 9/10 tanks in T8, and you still have more T8 targets. For me biggest problem is (regardless of tier) heavy meta corridor maps, that leads to locking down flank with single OP shit. No MM would prevent that. 

 

And one thing regarding MM is class balance, so no more 10xTDs vs 10xMEDS and stuff like that. It’s really nice change.

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1 minute ago, BlackAdder said:

And one thing regarding MM is class balance, so no more 10xTDs vs 10xMEDS and stuff like that. It’s really nice change.

I'm in two minds about most of this - on the one hand it's nice that they've acknowledged that their class balance is out of whack and so are trying to improve on it (yet haven't looked at meds vs heavies yet). Tho i would have hoped they would have looked at and addressed what's caused that rather than put in this arbitrary fix.

While on the other hand i preferred less prescribed MM for its variety except when it spat out retardedly balanced top tiers - eg one team getting 3 or more top tiers. That struck me as being an easy fix yet something they apparently never found the time to look at.

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30 minutes ago, Ezz said:

Tho i would have hoped they would have looked at and addressed what's caused that rather than put in this arbitrary fix.

That’s easy, i’m gonna camp bush and wait with my BL-10 some fool. And there you have it, fools hoping that they impact game with cassmate TDs with high pen and alpha, while notmal and engaging players pick MT and try to fuck them with camo and speed (+ 22). 

I think that’s due to laziness and i want everything overnight goal. But that’s isn’t only thing in this game, this is lifelong dream of many.

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I think the 357 format has positive things in it.

Being bottom tier in 357 is better than being bottom tier in 9/1/5 for example which would not be that uncommon before the change.

The problem with it is the changes to armor, armor was kind of useless before, but the tanks that have armor now are almost completely invincible to tanks 2 tiers lower and some of them (maus and type 5) are even practically invincible to same tier opponents except for super-pen TDs or very high-pen premium ammo. This means that bottom tier is now more useless than it has ever been before in the higher tiers.

The second issue is the server population. If there are more 8s queues than anything else (which there is) then it doesn't take a whole lot of brain-power to figure out that 357 is going to put tier 8 as bottom tier way more often, there's more of those tanks so it has to fill the biggest group with them more often. The alternative is that the MM tries to make equal numbers of games with all tiers having an even spread of top bottom and middle tier, but if they did that then any other tier that the largest would see waiting times that would depend on how much smaller their tier population is.

These two things together makes it really annoying playing tier 8s, worse if it's a tier 8 that doesn't have good standard pen, and much much worse if it's a tier 8 that doesn't veen have good premium pen. Tier8 TDs are one of the only ones that can kind of sort of work because they (for the most part) have pen values that are on par or better than normal tier 10 guns.

Another nail in the coffin is the current map-meta with a huge focus being on brawling and short-range fighting, armor is king here, HP is king, Alpha is king, but even if you have good armor/HP/alpha as a tier 8 tank, it isn't worth shit against a tier 10 tank with a tier 10 gun. And that's before you consider how many people just load gold for the hell of it even when shooting at -2 tier. There might be some armor on tier 8s that can bounce 300 pen but there aren't many outside of heat VS spaced armor/tracks.

 

357 is a good idea on paper, but it doesn't work in the current state of the game, there it is a shitshow.

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I posted this somewhere earlier but still, I think i should repeat it.

 

This would have been a good change had WG not completely fucked up the game balance by

  • Fucking up maps with corridors and little if any flanking opportunities.
  • Going full agent orange on map
  • Fucking up heavies by dumping armour on them for no reason
  • Making some tanks blatantly OP
  • Shortening the overall range of combat
  • MASSIVE difference in between tiers and in between classes
  • Inflating tier 8 by adding in 400 new premium tanks

And this is before they decided to make those new tier 8 premium tanks actually tier 8.5

If we had more open maps and an ability to kill the top tier tanks in lower tier tanks unlike most tier 6s vs a Defender, it would have made games a lot less frustrating because you could always do something. 

But when you simplify maps so that you only have 2 places you can go to win, you're always going to run into a tank 2 tiers higher than you, and when you run into them, you can do literally nothing except give them some exp. 

 


Basically this would never have happened if WG had just nerfed the fuck out of arty and TDs 4 years ago. 

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On 9.8.2017 at 9:22 AM, MagicalFlyingFox said:

I posted this somewhere earlier but still, I think i should repeat it.

 

This would have been a good change had WG not completely fucked up the game balance by

  • Fucking up maps with corridors and little if any flanking opportunities.
  • Going full agent orange on map
  • Fucking up heavies by dumping armour on them for no reason
  • Making some tanks blatantly OP
  • Shortening the overall range of combat
  • MASSIVE difference in between tiers and in between classes
  • Inflating tier 8 by adding in 400 new premium tanks

And this is before they decided to make those new tier 8 premium tanks actually tier 8.5

If we had more open maps and an ability to kill the top tier tanks in lower tier tanks unlike most tier 6s vs a Defender, it would have made games a lot less frustrating because you could always do something. 

But when you simplify maps so that you only have 2 places you can go to win, you're always going to run into a tank 2 tiers higher than you, and when you run into them, you can do literally nothing except give them some exp. 

 


Basically this would never have happened if WG had just nerfed the fuck out of arty and TDs 4 years ago. 

WG's decision making as wild as it may seem at times has some logic in it from their perspective.

Remember that:

-WG's philosophy has alwasy been $-oriented and greedy- player/game experiences are way down on the list
-at present around 70% of their player base are Russians(probably close to 80% if one adds up Poles on EU servers)-
this is where the $ comes from
-SEA and NA servers are so small that WG hardly take them into consideration when it comes to squeeze out the last
amounts of cash available to them from this game

In other words, the average Russian Joe is the major factor when WG adjusts WoT.
Mr Russian Joe is usually high on vodka and playing mainly in weekends. Then he wants to take his big stronk tenk
out for a spin. The only fun available to him is to blap loose with derpy guns, the bigger the better. It is also important
that his tank is virtually impenetrable from most angles. Sidescraping, use of terrain, bush play etc does not make any sense to him.
On the contrary this will usually be reported as cheating, unfair gameplay etc

This may appear as a joke but Russia is a weird place. Russian women live just as long as in my country(Norway) but Russian men
can only expect to live between 55 and 60 years on average. This can largely be related to the extensive misuse of alcohol in all society classes.

Pls take ^^ also into consideration when trying to understand what Serb&co does at all times

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Just played the game after almost 2 months. Played 7 games with tier 8 heavy, lowest tier Ive seen was tier 8... mostly tier X games.

GG no re

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12 hours ago, ProxyCentauri said:

WG's decision making as wild as it may seem at times has some logic in it from their perspective.

All their changes from 8.6 are logical. The problem was that they changed arty characteristics to be even more derpy and said "That'll fix it" when everyone stopped playing arty for a few patches and balanced the game around that. 

Removing bushes? Trying to stop invisisniping. TD nerfs? Actually necessary. Logical too to prevent the aforementioned invisisniping. Corridor maps? Same deal essentially, being shot unexpectedly. Same with trying to shorten the range of combat. All of these to make "Heavy tanks more relevant".

 

Literally all their changes has been "How to make Heavy tanks more relevant" and "8.6 fixed arty, we don't need to do anything else". Under those assumptions, the changes are completely logical. They've just gotten to a point of exasperation now. 

That last assumption there has almost killed the game's enjoyment for a majority of people who have been playing for this long. 

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At first i was enjoying 3,5,7 most games. But now....

Every single tier 8 game i play is tier 10, tier 8 premiums are fucking useless now. 

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serb mus have heard me, 7 games tonight in my amx13 57, only one tier 9...

 

ONmXLTz

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From what I've seen lights and TDs get a slightly better run thru 3 5 7 MM if that helps.

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12 hours ago, Copeyhagen said:

Deffo found that playing tier 10 lights

Thats because they are really tier 9-ish tanks anyway. 

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