rmw00

M3 Lee to be removed from game

40 posts in this topic

^best post in this thread so far. So much HE in the pooper. 

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Posted (edited)

@Private_Miros: Shouldn't this thread be moved out of the vehicles section?

Now back to non-tanks talk:

Quote

When did we part ways with Jefferson? Jackson is a controversial figure, and he always will be. But I've never heard anyone denounce Jefferson.

Thomas Jefferson owned slaves and supposedly sired a child with one (see Sally Hemings).

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/jefferson-memorial-exhibit-update-will-acknowledge-slavery-record/article/2632084

That's a recent start. I don't know if people will call for removing his statues eventually too. It's hard to say.

Quote

Also, Lincoln was president when the Union was threatening to tear itself apart. No, he didn't help matters, but he did what (I imagine) he felt was morally and practically imperative: ensure the longevity of the Union. We've tried a confederacy before, look it up. It was a failure. Without a federal system, without a federal government, we'd be nothing more than a bunch of squabbling states. As much as I hate it sometimes, a federal government is essential.

OK, but there was nothing explicitly illegal about state secession. Lincoln's actions directly led to the death of over 620,000 Americans by ordering the invasion of southern states.

Quote

And war is hell. Even WW2, our so-called 'Great War', is mired by terrible atrocities committed by the Americans. Does that somehow legitimize the Axis, or delegitimize our war against them? Not really. It just means we need to go forward remembering what we did, and absolving not to let it happen again.

Yes, atrocities are committed in war. That's why invasions for economic gain or nationalism are generally frowned upon these days. I don't think that you intended to compare Lincoln with Hitler, but it can be read that way.

11 hours ago, dualmaster333 said:

Watch these T49s take a dump on their enemies:

Very nice dumps! Were those HEAT rounds on the Object 704 and HE on the Conqueror?

Edited by monjardin
I did not remember the correct casualty estimates from the war and had a number that was too high.

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7 minutes ago, monjardin said:

Very nice dumps! Were those HEAT rounds on the Object 704 and HE on the Conqueror?

Both shots on the 704 looked like HE. First shot got some splashback, second also had that distinct explosion. 

First shot on Conq looked like HEAT, no characteristic giant explosion while the 2nd was definitely HE. 

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4 minutes ago, MagicalFlyingFox said:

Both shots on the 704 looked like HE. First shot got some splashback, second also had that distinct explosion. 

First shot on Conq looked like HEAT, no characteristic giant explosion while the 2nd was definitely HE. 

I was going off alpha (~700 vs ~900), but I see your point.

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3 minutes ago, monjardin said:

I was going off alpha (~700 vs ~900), but I see your point.

mhm yeah, the 704 one where i thought was splash-back was just getting shot by the tank that you see in the beginning. First shot is HEAT. Second is HE though. 

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10 hours ago, monjardin said:

Very nice dumps! Were those HEAT rounds on the Object 704 and HE on the Conqueror?

 

10 hours ago, MagicalFlyingFox said:

Both shots on the 704 looked like HE. First shot got some splashback, second also had that distinct explosion. 

First shot on Conq looked like HEAT, no characteristic giant explosion while the 2nd was definitely HE. 

 

10 hours ago, monjardin said:

I was going off alpha (~700 vs ~900), but I see your point.

 

10 hours ago, MagicalFlyingFox said:

mhm yeah, the 704 one where i thought was splash-back was just getting shot by the tank that you see in the beginning. First shot is HEAT. Second is HE though. 

Double HEAT for the 704, double HE for the Conqueror. Penning the 704 with HE is probably a little less than 50/50 depending on angle.

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On 8/25/2017 at 8:06 PM, Ickus said:

TBH there should be a thorough analysis of anyone we idolize so we can understand their character - In historical context of course. If we deem their character wanting, perhaps they don't need monuments. Especially so if we find their symbolic value dangerous. While I doubt society has done their homework, the Confederacy's legacy is not one we should carry on, so I can at least agree with that. And of course, history is written by the victors.

 

When did we part ways with Jefferson? Jackson is a controversial figure, and he always will be. But I've never heard anyone denounce Jefferson.

 

Also, Lincoln was president when the Union was threatening to tear itself apart. No, he didn't help matters, but he did what (I imagine) he felt was morally and practically imperative: ensure the longevity of the Union. We've tried a confederacy before, look it up. It was a failure. Without a federal system, without a federal government, we'd be nothing more than a bunch of squabbling states. As much as I hate it sometimes, a federal government is essential.

 

And war is hell. Even WW2, our so-called 'Great War', is mired by terrible atrocities committed by the Americans. Does that somehow legitimize the Axis, or delegitimize our war against them? Not really. It just means we need to go forward remembering what we did, and absolving not to let it happen again.

(For anyone bitching me out for politics, you knew it was coming :trump:)

 

So we should just allow shitposting? WoTLabs should be known for educational and/or entertaining content. I'm sorry for having standards.

 

This. If you're going to meme, at least meme responsibly.

Here's a suggestion on what to do with those "controversial" statues:

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2017/08/27/2003677269

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18 hours ago, monjardin said:

Thomas Jefferson owned slaves and supposedly sired a child with one (see Sally Hemings).

True, but back then if you were rich you owned slaves. Doesn't justify it, but context is important. Also if I remember correctly, didn't he only begrudgingly own slaves? I remember one or more of the Founding Fathers being kinda anti-slavery. I even remember hearing that they didn't write it into the constitution simply because they needed the South's support.

18 hours ago, monjardin said:

OK, but there was nothing explicitly illegal about state secession. Lincoln's actions directly led to the death of over 620,000 Americans by ordering the invasion of southern states.

It was never explicitly stated that secession was illegal prior to Texas v. White (1869), but that ruling was an interpretation. You could easily make arguments either way, and both sides did. It might not have been illegal de jure, but for a large portion of the population, it was illegal de facto. And yes, he caused a war that killed plenty of people, but the South forced his hand. The political reality for the Federal Govt was simple: Crush the secessionists or fall apart. I won't say outright that that's worse than 620,000 lives lost, but in hindsight the present would look very different.

18 hours ago, monjardin said:

Yes, atrocities are committed in war. That's why invasions for economic gain or nationalism are generally frowned upon these days. I don't think that you intended to compare Lincoln with Hitler, but it can be read that way.

Of course, but the Civil War was neither of those things. It was a fight for the very soul of the nation. Whomever won would decide the future of both factions.

 

I suppose, but the parallel I drew was Lincoln with Roosevelt, and the Confederacy with the Axis. It doesn't quite work as intended if flipped.

3 hours ago, ThomChen114 said:

Here's a suggestion on what to do with those "controversial" statues:

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2017/08/27/2003677269

That's actually a good idea. But don't just stop there, make it an entire museum. It should be an educational experience.

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16 minutes ago, kariverson said:

No way! This has to be a joke! 

It's the US. Anything is possible.

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The whole thing baffles me. One thing is people forget "the southern way of life" was only fun for one part of the society and was built on the backs of others. The other is the argument that people forget about history when you remove the "runner up at civil war" prize statues. If that was the case Germans would forget about WW2, Eastern Europe would forget about communism (and yes old people think of it fondly), Italy and Spain would forget about fascism, same about Greece. I get it some of those guys were good at waging war (apparently not good enough lol)  but so was Guderian and I don't see his statues in Germany. Still I find US politics silly anyway. The idiotic voting system where some hicks vote in buttfuck missouri counts more than some hipster who makes bagles from bio degradable joga matts, gerrymandering, lifetime judge apointments (jesus who though that was a good idea?), the whole thing about states wanting to be separate at one times and patriotic at others and well the fact that I could cut my IQ in half, look like the Toxic Avenger and still could get a gun but probably not pass the driving license. Not that we are better but our systems in Europe are a bit better at managing idiots in power.

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3 hours ago, CardinalMite said:

Can't see the remblance myself, the patriot is effective.

It's painted in red, white and blue to gouge money out of people. Amazing resemblance.

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