bigrebone

Mentor Skill increases other crew skills but not Commander?

23 posts in this topic

I thought that the Mentor skill provided additional crew skills to all crew, but the commander.  I moved my Tiger II crew, which is on its 5th skill/perk to the E 100 on Saturday.  Today, I found myself putting together a new Tiger II crew, so I gave the commander Mentor, 2 crew members repairs and the radio operator situational awareness to restart.  Low and behold, I played my first game with the new crew, got a 2nd class badge with 1738 damage, 2031 spotting assist and 240 blocked damage.  The commander now is 25% trained on Mentor and the other crew members got 17%.  The radio operator was already 31% on Situational Awareness, as he was left over from a sold tank.

I don't know if you can see the picture I'm trying to attach or not.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By1Pal24ZYNKYVpqYXlpNzJNenc/view?usp=sharing

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A) were any crew members dead at the end of the fight? They don't get XP.

B) was your commander the lowest (or tied for lowest) total experience out of the crew? if so, then he got the double XP applied from accelerate crew training.

C) stop using mentor.

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19 minutes ago, canadiantrex said:

A) were any crew members dead at the end of the fight? They don't get XP.

B) was your commander the lowest (or tied for lowest) total experience out of the crew? if so, then he got the double XP applied from accelerate crew training.

C) stop using mentor.

only one crew member had experience before the game.

What's wrong with using Mentor if it accelerates the crew training?  I usually reset them after they reach 100% for BIA

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1 minute ago, bigrebone said:

only one crew member had experience before the game.

What's wrong with using Mentor if it accelerates the crew training?  I usually reset them after they reach 100% for BIA

Instead of mentor, you could have another skill that will increase your overall XP gain and slightly increase your chance of winning a match, such as better camo or vision or slightly faster repairs.

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1 minute ago, canadiantrex said:

Instead of mentor, you could have another skill that will increase your overall XP gain and slightly increase your chance of winning a match, such as better camo or vision or slightly faster repairs.

gotcha.

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Also, if most of your crew (including commander) were tied for lowest XP before the match, that's why the commander got more XP, cause of the accelerate crew training.

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59 minutes ago, bigrebone said:

only one crew member had experience before the game.

What's wrong with using Mentor if it accelerates the crew training?  I usually reset them after they reach 100% for BIA

the bonus mentor gives is negligible. and you may as well run repairs or something that actually DOES something ingame for your crew. mentor is a wasted skill slot. 

 

also, BIA is useless as first skill. you need sixth sense for a start, and there are far better skills which give far bigger bonuses than BIA for first and second skill. I wouldn't take BIA before third or fourth skill on any tank. (Fourth for meds, lights, TDs, third for some heavies depending) I normally take repairs, Gun handling, and camo for 1-3. 

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37 minutes ago, Assassin7 said:

also, BIA is useless as first skill. you need sixth sense for a start, and there are far better skills which give far bigger bonuses than BIA for first and second skill. I wouldn't take BIA before third or fourth skill on any tank. (Fourth for meds, lights, TDs, third for some heavies depending) I normally take repairs, Gun handling, and camo for 1-3. 

1

Eh, if you're lazy/broke, training straight into perks is worthwhile.  Yes, you don't get the benefit of it, but you don't have to spend gold/lose 10% of your skill XP IOT retrain camo into something useful.

However, yes, Mentor is fucking trash.

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Thanks for all the feedback.  I did some more research and found that the mentor skill is negligible due to the insane amount of experience it takes to reach 100% in a perk or skill.

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other than the BIA perk getting an update some patches ago to enable it to work with the Sisterhood of Steel perk, WG hasn't bothered to change the crew skills that remain largely unchanged since, well, ever.

while the recent garage UI update does help show the effects of crew skills and perks on a tank, there's still much to be desired

 

would be nice to have a perk/skill that reduces or mitigates the stun effect by artillery. 

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Bah most skills or perks give such a minimal amount of bonus that are not worth it. The only good ones are sixth sense, repairs, camo (not on all tanks), bia and ff (ff allows you to drop afe for food so practically gives you a 5% boost to the tank). Others that are decent are snap shot (7% decrease to turret bloom is not bad) and intuition, but only if you have 2 loaders.

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3 hours ago, nabucodonsor said:

Bah most skills or perks give such a minimal amount of bonus that are not worth it. The only good ones are sixth sense, repairs, camo (not on all tanks), bia and ff (ff allows you to drop afe for food so practically gives you a 5% boost to the tank). Others that are decent are snap shot (7% decrease to turret bloom is not bad) and intuition, but only if you have 2 loaders.

you forget smooth ride (Which also lowers bloom), safe stowage (a must for tanks like the cent), a deadeye (minimal, but highly useful in high caliber guns and/or dpm/RoF tanks where you can roll for damaging a module {yes, this is also RNG based as well} multiple times in succession, increasing the odds of crippling your enemy)

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20 minutes ago, lordawesome7 said:

you forget smooth ride (Which also lowers bloom), safe stowage (a must for tanks like the cent), a deadeye (minimal, but highly useful in high caliber guns and/or dpm/RoF tanks where you can roll for damaging a module {yes, this is also RNG based as well} multiple times in succession, increasing the odds of crippling your enemy)

No i didn't XD.

Smooth ride gives u a 2% bonus only when going straight, so it is not worth it.

Safe stowage changes nothing because it increases ammorack duration by not much: you have to look at avg module dmg u receive. The only advantage is all other loaders skills are useless anyway so you may as well train in it.

Dead eye is meh it is only 3% increases and it is a perk.  Worth it only if you nothing left to train the gunner as 4/5th ability.

You should always look at quantity and  most give you nothing. 

ex crew of four on a HT:        6th        repair                  bia    ff

                                              repair    snap                    bia   ff

                                              repair    off road?             bia    ff

                                              repair    safe stowage?    bia    ff

This is what i would run if could run food. 

 

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, nabucodonsor said:

No i didn't XD.

Smooth ride gives u a 2% bonus only when going straight, so it is not worth it.

Safe stowage changes nothing because it increases ammorack duration by not much: you have to look at avg module dmg u receive. The only advantage is all other loaders skills are useless anyway so you may as well train in it.

Dead eye is meh it is only 3% increases and it is a perk.  Worth it only if you nothing left to train the gunner as 4/5th ability.

You should always look at quantity and  most give you nothing. 

ex crew of four on a HT:        6th        repair                  bia    ff

                                              repair    snap                    bia   ff

                                              repair    off road?             bia    ff

                                              repair    safe stowage?    bia    ff

This is what i would run if could run food. 

 

 

 

 

off road is even more minimal compared to smooth ride, wow you go 2 whole km/h faster vs. smooth ride which actually helps connect hits, which is really crucial in brawling tanks like the defender and IS 3

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Man I'd retrain every single gunner if they would just make a skill (into effect at 100%) that makes an enemy in avg alpha oneshot HP reduce the alpha RNG to 10%

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1 hour ago, lordawesome7 said:

off road is even more minimal compared to smooth ride, wow you go 2 whole km/h faster vs. smooth ride which actually helps connect hits, which is really crucial in brawling tanks like the defender and IS 3

Smooth ride buff only applies to the bloom from moving in a straight line, not to bloom from tank or turret traverse. 2 km/h would be a massive bonus compared to the tiny fraction of a percent to total bloom you get from Smooth Ride (not that you actually get 2km/h from ORD, but that's another story).

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1 hour ago, lordawesome7 said:

off road is even more minimal compared to smooth ride, wow you go 2 whole km/h faster vs. smooth ride which actually helps connect hits, which is really crucial in brawling tanks like the defender and IS 3

Mmm i think @Rexxie proved a while back that it affects also traverse speed. Plus it makes the tank faster on medium and those extremely rare occasion on soft. 

I put a question mark there because you can put anything you want there, even clutch braking would have some use. As you said the advantage is so minimal they are interchangeable.

A tank with good mobility would benfit more from smooth ride or cb, but a tank with poor terrain stats would find more beneficial off road. 

My point was more about maxing out the tanks potential, in this way it is 7,2% better plus repairs plus the ability to loose only two ticks to fire. 

 

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Mentor + prem tank + reserves + crew exp event = super boost to train brand new crew.

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3 hours ago, MacusFlash said:

Mentor + prem tank + reserves + crew exp event = super boost to train brand new crew.

Still not worth it.  Just use the Premium trick of good crew with one shitter and Accel Crew Training.

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Excerpt..

 

Quote

 

TL;DR

Mentor can be a net positive influence on your supplementary crew skills over time balanced against battle performance skills that shorten the skill grinds.  Stunting your commander’s development at the expense of increased development of crew that will already finish “key” training first anyway seems short-sighted.  Your crew actually becomes more balanced and effective faster without Mentor than with it!  YMMV and it’s a judgement call but for me the extra battle skill on the commander is worth far more than the extra XP on the other crew members  .I would relegate Mentor to one of the Commanders 6+ or later skills...

 

 

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Many people don't agree with me, but I'm going to quote my thoughts I previously posted on WoT forums about how to use Mentor effectively. 

link

 

There's usually two criteria I use to decide if I want mentor on any of my tanks:

1.  Is it a German or Japanese heavy tank?  Or a 5man or 6man crew?

This is in order for the commander to have no overlapping responsibilities (ie Commander/Radio is a common overlap in a 4man crew).

2.  Are you planning on getting more than 4 skills/crewmember?

If you answered yes to both questions, Mentor is worth it.  If you answered no to one, it's a judgement call.  If no to both, don't get Mentor.

Here's my own personal example.  I'm a sucker for my Tiger II.  For whatever reason, it's my favorite tier 8 heavy.  Haven't played it much in awhile because of all the power creeping, but it's my ONLY tank that has 6+ skills (I think it's at 6.25).  It also has 6 crewmen.  So I made sure the commander had mentor early on (3rd skill in this case).

What makes mentor so essential for a situation like my Tiger II is:

#1 I have 6 crewmen.  That tiny bonus Mentor gives adds up a LOT (10% more crew xp EVERY battle after all other crew xp bonuses are applied) over time when you have that many crewmen and the required xp for the bump in skill % is so large for my current skill level.

#2 Accelerated Crew Training (ACT) has less an impact the larger your tank crew is.  For instance, you're driving your elc, ACT will alternate bonus crew xp from the commander to his driver every game.  So ACT is being applied 50% overall to that crew effectively.  In contrast, in my Tiger II, where I have 6 crew members, it's being applied 16.67% overall to my crew effectively.  Thus, ACT increases the skill gain in the elc faster than in my Tiger II.

As far having Mentor as your 6th skill, that's just silly.  You're honestly better off with camo on a tank like the Maus then mentor at that point.

link

 

This is just silly.  Putting Mentor on your Commander at skill 6 is like building a pool for your kids when they're all seniors in high school and 2 months from graduation.

It's a complete worthless use of the skill.  Mentor should be used to boost your crew training early on and left there.  Putting a barely trained Mentor skill at 20% gives 2% more crew xp for skill 6 or 7 is just a waste of space.

 

Here's the most beneficial uses of Mentor:

1. Placing it as the first skill with the intent to replace with 6th sense at 100%.

2. Placing it as the third skill and leaving it, having gained 6th sense and BiA already.  You then put recon/joat/repairs/camo on as a 4th skill depending on need.

 

As I mentioned before, there's two criteria for getting the most out of Mentor.

#1 You have a crew of 5 or 6 crewmembers.

#2 You plan on getting at LEAST 5 skills, if not 6 on that particular tank and crew.

Otherwise you probably don't want to use it.

 

But for HEAVEN'S SAKE, don't use it as a 6th skill.  It's a complete waste of space at that point; any benefit you may have enjoyed from the bonus to crew xp won't be realized because you've already grinded 5 skills without it.  In fact you're better off putting firefighting on the commander at that point.

 

To put things into perspective, the amount of experience saved if Mentor is your 3rd skill and is at 100% so you gain 10%.

For the 4th skill, FOR ALL CREW MEMBERS, you don't have to grind 8,000 crew experience of the 80,0000 required to go from 4.0 to 5.0.

For the 5th skill, for all crew members, you don't have to grind 16,000 crew experience of the 160,000 required to go from 5.0 to 6.0.

For the 6th skill, for all crew members, you don't have to grind 32,000 crew experience of the 320,000 required to go from 6.0 to 7.0.

 

So in summary, if you placed mentor as your 3rd skill with the intention of grinding 6 skills, it will save you 56,000 total crew experience.  That's almost a free 4th crew skill for all your crew members; it's more than a 3rd crew skill would cost for ALL your crew members.

 

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Your mileage obviously varies and yes if your going to use mentor then that is likely the best approach.

My math says focusing on in-combat skills improves XP performance and accumulation over the long run much more than mentor ever will... 

2 hours ago, Vampiresbane said:

As far having Mentor as your 6th a skill, that's just silly.  

 

 

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18 hours ago, 8_Hussars said:

Your mileage obviously varies and yes if your going to use mentor then that is likely the best approach.

My math says focusing on in-combat skills improves XP performance and accumulation over the long run much more than mentor ever will... 

 

 

Do you mind sharing that math?  Could be useful for more discussion. 

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