OnboardG1

WG adds terrible clan mode, more at 8

64 posts in this topic

On 01/10/2017 at 7:28 AM, Crossfader said:

i have seen quite a few videos/comments on how removing CV's will "help" DD's flank... they clearly never played ranked, let alone comp. Seriously, last ranked seasons past ranked 5, every game had one RPF ship, makes flanking a complete waste of time, such a shit skill to have added to the game, makes any sort of risky play impossible.

Flanking/harassing/spotting from side worked fine on ranked as long as it was done with proper ship and using brains. Just spotting from side was often extremely valuable, revealing enemies hugging island or behind smokes. Except when there was CV, then it was no more possible as CV could keep flanking dd spotted too easily. Fast ship could run and evade chasing enemy ships and get out of spotting range pretty easily, but there is no ship fast enough to outrun CV planes. Using own RDF and also using RDF spotted indicator for locating enemy RDF ship is minigame in itself.

Though at tier 10 problem comes from cruisers having too high radar ranges against dd's, especially Moskva's 11km+. Covers too much area.

 

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16 hours ago, sahtila said:

Flanking/harassing/spotting from side worked fine on ranked as long as it was done with proper ship and using brains. Just spotting from side was often extremely valuable, revealing enemies hugging island or behind smokes. Except when there was CV, then it was no more possible as CV could keep flanking dd spotted too easily. Fast ship could run and evade chasing enemy ships and get out of spotting range pretty easily, but there is no ship fast enough to outrun CV planes. Using own RDF and also using RDF spotted indicator for locating enemy RDF ship is minigame in itself.

Though at tier 10 problem comes from cruisers having too high radar ranges against dd's, especially Moskva's 11km+. Covers too much area.

 

Ranked is not clan wars. You do not flank DDs in clan wars unless you enjoy losing cap control. Watch OM, UFR or OMNI play. The only time we "flank" with DDs is to contest an abandoned cap. DDs are there to contest, provide smoke cover for pushes and anchors and MAYBE push round a camp later in a battle. A flanking DD is pretty useless against a team that is doing their job properly because with RDF a smart FC will see them coming and most good teams will be positioned to mitigate torpedoes (and will all have hydro in this mode). Cruisers are the most common ships for running up the flanks (Atago is our favourite for this at T8 because of the stealth) since they can actually do significant damage without relying on torps.

You aren't talking seven randoms who think they're all Nimitz here unless you're in the bin league. Even mid-tier clans will have a single FC and coordinated voice comms that let them do stuff that ranked players can't do. 

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Ignoring, for a moment, the CV question, what does a tier X 7v7 clan wars team look like?

A Conqueror as the BB – to maintain stealth with the other ships?

Would you take a Hindenburg or Moskva as a second pseudo BB?

Or would you go ham on the DDs? I could imagine a team of Shimakaze's turning a smoke cloud into torpedo hell.

Because it's a queue into random team system, you could go far on weird setups.

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I think they said earlier 1 BB (Conqueror or Montana) ,1 DD (Z52 or gearing) A mix of 5 CA's with Hindenburg and Moskva for a mix of 11.7 km radar and 5.88 km sonar. So with coordinated radar and sonar, I think something that can only sling torps is kind of newtered along with its smoke clouds.

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I'd imagine probably:

1 Conqueror (alternatively Montana if they want mebbeh, but Conq is still better dealing with HE)

2. Gearing and/or Z-52. Long smoke or smoke + hydro or both so you can chain smoke while still having hydro.

3. 4-5 CAs. I'm placing bets on Moskva being mandatory. You can also choose to throw in an assortment of Minotaur (radar+hydro spec, so everything is covered), Hindy (hydro, also can survive outside of smokescreen) and Des Moines (long radar if needed).

I simply can't see any other ship being used because of lack of teamplay (HIV, Khaba, Shima) or can't deal with being spotted/HE spammed (Des Moines, Minotaur/G.K., Yammy).

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Minotaur is too squishy. My guess is that we're going to see a lot of Gearing, Z52, Conqueror, Hindenburg, Hindenburg, Moskva, Moskva teams.

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Do you really want to bring two DDs?

It seems ok to go with one DD (Gearing) and one extra Moskva. Caps are divided into one each thats easy to take (so you need no DD for it) and one thats contestet. I think three Moskvas will make it imposible for any DD to contest that middle cap.

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It is kind of a shame that the devs wont let us use t10 or less. They might learn a thing or 2 about how the game is really balanced. How many people would replace the Gearing with the Fletcher? Probably quite a few. Some might take the T46 over the T53 since the T46 has better concealment. I think the CA's and BB's would stay the same, their might be some lower tiered DD's taken over the T10. Another odd option would be the T8 Lo Yang with its 5.88 KM sonar and short range torps and 5.8 km concelament or the Black for the few people that own her.

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Does small differences in concealment matter much when there is coordinated radars in enemy team... Btw Z52 has soo short torpedo range that it needs be inside even US 9.5km(?) radar range to _effectively_ torp and any dd spotted in open 10km away will die really fast against 4-5 Moskva's/Hindenburgs railguns. Does not help German DD's take lot of AP damage. Though I guess Z52 is still good if there is rocks to hug while keeping most of cap lighted up with hydro or just covering team with extra hydro in addition to what other ships have. Still also negative of extra short smoke duration.

Why bring Minotaur when you can bring Des Moines instead... no torps or hydro but does not die immediately when Hindenburgs shoot smoke with spotter planes. And Minotaur damage output is abysmal bad against angling/manouvring targets 10km+ range.

 

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Sounds like if the enemy has a lot of DD's the Z52 will be useful. If the enemy has a lot of CA's then the Gearing will be more useful.

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Z52 is a DD hunter, but has really good AP. It can chew up CA's if it get a non angled side. (my record with a single broadside against a CA was 16k damage in the Z23. The Z52 is much better. This is without a detonation.)

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21 hours ago, Jaegaer said:

Do you really want to bring two DDs?

It seems ok to go with one DD (Gearing) and one extra Moskva. Caps are divided into one each thats easy to take (so you need no DD for it) and one thats contestet. I think three Moskvas will make it imposible for any DD to contest that middle cap.

One DD is fine, but if he dies your team is fucked. Two DDs guarantees an overmatch on a cap point and provides you with smoke for you and a way of denying smoke for the enemy team. You're not always going to want them and it depends quite heavily on the map pool.

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12 hours ago, Jarkorsis said:

a single broadside against a CA was 16k damage in the Z23. The Z52 is much better.

I think the Z-23 with the big guns firing at something like a Molotov will out-alpha a Z-52 friring at a NO...

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On 05/10/2017 at 0:29 PM, Jaegaer said:

I think the Z-23 with the big guns firing at something like a Molotov will out-alpha a Z-52 friring at a NO...

Kind of miss z23 big guns, remember citadeling Zao and Ibuki  with them... though I guess on average they were about equal  to small guns.

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