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kaneaaa

Is it me or is the tortoise one of the most useless tanks in the game?

43 posts in this topic

This is my grind at the moment. The great gun doesnt seem to make up for the fact that this is a sitting juicy turkey for most tanks you face. Armour might as well not be there.... so basically its a big mound of soft butter which moves like a snail. Am I missing something, or is it my fault that everything pens me? 

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You should always be angled when engaging, utilizing gun depression as well if possible, to greatly increase your chance of bouncing credit ammo. The huge gun arc and nice elevation angles can increase your armor from ~220 effective head on to ~270 effective under ideal conditions.

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6 minutes ago, Hally said:

You should always be angled when engaging, utilizing gun depression as well if possible, to greatly increase your chance of bouncing credit ammo. The huge gun arc and nice elevation angles can increase your armor from ~220 effective head on to ~270 effective under ideal conditions.

Against tier 10 guns? 

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2nd-line Heavy, not frontal assault tank. Plus, wiggling, wiggling, wiggling.

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It's horrific. I've been one shotted through the front by the  fv 215b 183  twice today while covering the tumour and wiggling. Armour is really not actually there.

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i haven't played the tort yet but I would wager that the t9 strv is worse. I could probably make the dpm/gun arc work.

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1 hour ago, Fulcrous said:

i haven't played the tort yet but I would wager that the t9 strv is worse. I could probably make the dpm/gun arc work.

I don't know about that.  At least the Strv is fast.  The tort is slow and without reliable armor.

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Completely valid sample size...

Tortoise - 199 Battles; 61% WR; 948 Avg Exp; 2,053 DPG
Strv 103-0 - 81 Battles; 52% WR; 846 Avg Exp; 2,108 DPG

Wow... similar DPG, though large variance on WR (which I think also explains the exp)... Time to dig!

T30 - 296 battles; 60% WR; 936 Exp; 2,412 DPG
T95 - 138 Battles; 50% WR; 787 Exp; 1,919 DPG
WT IV - 220 Battles; 52% WR; 788 Exp; 2,030 DPG
JTiger - 164 Battles; 57% WR; 910 Exp; 2,186 DPG
Obj 704 - 151 Battles; 52% WR; 849 Exp; 2,345 DPG
Su-122-54 - 130 Battles; 50% WR; 843 Exp; 1,976 DPG
Foch - 166 battles; 54% WR; 858 Exp; 1,996 DPG

I dunno. I'm not smart enough to see any correlation...

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7 hours ago, Fulcrous said:

i haven't played the tort yet but I would wager that the t9 strv is worse. I could probably make the dpm/gun arc work.

You have 20kp/h with basically no armor. The Strv has more armor than the Tortoise. :triggered:

 

5 hours ago, Errants said:

Completely valid sample size...

Tortoise - 199 Battles; 61% WR; 948 Avg Exp; 2,053 DPG
Strv 103-0 - 81 Battles; 52% WR; 846 Avg Exp; 2,108 DPG
 

How can you have 2.1k in the STRV and have 2K in this POS of Tortoise ? :jealous:

 

I've had good players just kite me down over a hill in a tortoise because they would go backward faster than i would move forward and they could just see my cupola before i could see them.

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Try to play the t28 one of the few non HD and that gets penned by tier 8s. Then we can talk.

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1 hour ago, nabucodonsor said:

Try to play the t28 one of the few non HD and that gets penned by tier 8s. Then we can talk.

What the fuck are you guy's smoking ? Cause i want on it !! 

T28 armor is dank in comparison.

I have 0.6 blocked in the tortoise (so 1200dmg blocked) . and 1.39 in the T28 (so 2085dmg blocked). You need gold to reliably pen a T28, when you have tier 7 penning you with standard in the tortoise. 

 

Tortoise armor definitely holding up : 

h5pAynf.jpg

 

Edit: I just realised i have better DPG in the T28 then in this TortShit.

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36 minutes ago, DHP said:

What the fuck are you guy's smoking ? Cause i want on it !! 

T28 armor is dank in comparison.

I have 0.6 blocked in the tortoise (so 1200dmg blocked) . and 1.39 in the T28 (so 2085dmg blocked). You need gold to reliably pen a T28, when you have tier 7 penning you with standard in the tortoise. 

 

Tortoise armor definitely holding up : 

h5pAynf.jpg

 

Edit: I just realised i have better DPG in the T28 then in this TortShit.

The only good thing about the t28 is that i can check my email or watch a movie before i get to battle. Any human with some brains can pen the lfp of the t28 or aim a the cupolas. Luckly people dont see these thing much so they dont know where to pen it.

And dont get my wrong slow tanks without turrets are dog shit. My problems with the t28 are:

-low alpha for supposed  accuracy it should have (isu gets the same shots coz russian rng)

- similar dpm to the isu but with alpha that does not punish even tier 8s

-too slow for the bad armour it gets and crap gun depression with very low profile, meaning you cant really hide the lfp, meaning you have to overangle to make it work

-t25at in comparison is way way better and coming from it makes the t28 very very disapointing considering that the t25 has more armour when hulldown. A 25at at tier 8 with the 120mm and more hp would be a million times better and maybe one of the best tier 8s

-and finally tier 8 mm screws very hard this thing, while to be honest can dominate tier 6 battles (and some 7s) it sucks a lot in tier 9 or 10.

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I saw mailand play the Tort like a year back and made good use of it. People really just rush into things too worried about keeping the DPM up that they get themselves in too deep. 

Tort is much better from far away, just because it’s supposed to be armoured doesnt mean it needs to primarily take hits. It’s much easier to just stay 2nd line and trade your HP for damage later once you have all the info you need. 

I would play it like a Jagdtiger pretty much. Easily 3,8K DPGable for people getting the hang of it IMO. Get some crossfire and keep moving between those angles instead of engaging head on. Trackshots and poking from the right hand side helps a lot (just like the E5 type of sidescraping) to rack up serious damage.

 

Also the T9 STRV is not fast. It’s garbage in every regard.

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Granted, the Tortoise doesn't perform too well, too often... but when it does it's a beast!

http://wotreplays.eu/site/3842855#pilsen-fedaykin89-tortoise

http://wotreplays.eu/site/3698599#cliff-fedaykin89-tortoise

 

Mid-to-long ranges are your best friend, most of the times you have the accuracy to rip the a new one while (combined with some hard cover next to you) they have a chance to miss your weakspots.

Also, friendly reminder that the plate above the gun can be overmatched by 130+ (IIRC) guns, an IS7 slammed shell after shell into me when I was using the rubble on 1 line on Ruinberg as cover against him

 

l.e.: by the way, make deliberate (ab)use of HESH shells, quite often the MM pits you against paper MTs & LTs (not to mention the delight to slam them against Skorpions, Rhoombas, WTs & Grilles)

 

55 minutes ago, Kolni said:

Easily 3,8K DPGable for people getting the hang of it IMO.

 

Even in today's meta of 15-1/2/3 in 3 minutes, if the team wipes everything too fast to keep up?

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I played tortoise before the superheavy meta, and it was the best tank I've ever played. Not anymore, but let's see how WG rework this line (and hopefully give it a bigger gun,better armor or downtier to T8 )

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like the t9 strv, the tortoise can snipe. the key difference is that it can - if need be - also brawl. the t9 strv is limited to a purely sniping role hence why I hate it and have a sub 30% winrate in it.

Sure you can situationally brawl t7s but that means shit when you need siege mode to do so.

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3 hours ago, Kolni said:

I saw mailand play the Tort like a year back and made good use of it. People really just rush into things too worried about keeping the DPM up that they get themselves in too deep. 

Tort is much better from far away, just because it’s supposed to be armoured doesnt mean it needs to primarily take hits. It’s much easier to just stay 2nd line and trade your HP for damage later once you have all the info you need. 

I would play it like a Jagdtiger pretty much. Easily 3,8K DPGable for people getting the hang of it IMO. Get some crossfire and keep moving between those angles instead of engaging head on. Trackshots and poking from the right hand side helps a lot (just like the E5 type of sidescraping) to rack up serious damage.

 

Also the T9 STRV is not fast. It’s garbage in every regard.

Do you think this would apply for the t28 aswell? Because i miss a lot when i play from afar and i seriously have no clue what to do.

Also playing slow tanks is so fucking boring. 

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If the tortoise is meant for long range engagement surely the armour is completely superfluous. The only reason why you would stick a heavy amount of armour on a slow tank is so that it can assault at the front. Wasn't this the whole point of the tank. As it is it might aswell get stripped of the armour and trade that in for mobility. It's a confused tank which is at odds with the superheavy tier 10 mm dominated top tiers in current wot. And wiggling your tank at 1mph isn't going to cause someone with a brain any problems. They will gest load gold and shoot you in the face.... Which they always do. I agree it needs a rework. It doesn't really cope in the game as much with the changes Imo. 

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1 hour ago, kaneaaa said:

If the tortoise is meant for long range engagement surely the armour is completely superfluous. The only reason why you would stick a heavy amount of armour on a slow tank is so that it can assault at the front.

Hmno. It's a bit counter-intuitive and it's something I need to remind myself often as well: The gun a tank carries is a much better indicator for where it performs best, both in game and to some degree in reality, at least in WW2. Have a look at Tiger, TIger II and Panther. They are snipers, despite their relatively tough armor. Same is true for Tortoise. Not only does the armor work best when the enemy has to try to snipe the weakspots, but it also has an extremely accurate gun, so you don't need to get close to reliably hit and reliably hit weakspots and penetrate. You literally have no reason to get into close combat and that is even before considering how the Tortoise has no turret and thus, despite it's arc, limited close-range compatibility.

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6 hours ago, Fedaykin89 said:

Even in today's meta of 15-1/2/3 in 3 minutes, if the team wipes everything too fast to keep up?

It's all relative. The teams set the pace, make use of it. If people collapse very fast on one flank and you don't think you can get anything there, just skip it entirely and make sure you're ahead and ready to capitalize on the next one instead. Commiting to an area is rarely a good idea in a tank without a turret as you get pinned down so easily, I normally play my TDs like redliney mediums instead, just have to keep in mind that if they're slow you're gonna have to cut corners on minmaxing and play a lot more general, which isn't without it's risks.

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18 hours ago, Fulcrous said:

i haven't played the tort yet but I would wager that the t9 strv is worse. I could probably make the dpm/gun arc work.

I actually liked the t9 strv. 

16 hours ago, Errants said:

Completely valid sample size...

Tortoise - 199 Battles; 61% WR; 948 Avg Exp; 2,053 DPG
Strv 103-0 - 81 Battles; 52% WR; 846 Avg Exp; 2,108 DPG

Wow... similar DPG, though large variance on WR (which I think also explains the exp)... Time to dig!

T30 - 296 battles; 60% WR; 936 Exp; 2,412 DPG
T95 - 138 Battles; 50% WR; 787 Exp; 1,919 DPG
WT IV - 220 Battles; 52% WR; 788 Exp; 2,030 DPG
JTiger - 164 Battles; 57% WR; 910 Exp; 2,186 DPG
Obj 704 - 151 Battles; 52% WR; 849 Exp; 2,345 DPG
Su-122-54 - 130 Battles; 50% WR; 843 Exp; 1,976 DPG
Foch - 166 battles; 54% WR; 858 Exp; 1,996 DPG

I dunno. I'm not smart enough to see any correlation...

Bad luck. I have 2.3k dpg in the strv and I'm around 61%

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18 minutes ago, hazzgar said:

I actually liked the t9 strv. 

Bad luck. I have 2.3k dpg in the strv and I'm around 61%

I have 2618 dpg and only 53% win rate in strv 103-0. 2610 dpg and 67% win rate in tort. Tort did the entire stock grind the hard way, with no free exp used. Strv started elite right away. (My tort is probably around 3.2k ish elite.)

Tier 9 strv is decent at farming dmg on lopsided games,but has very little ability to turn an even game into a win. Siege mode requires significant exposure for anything agressive. With armor that does not work whatosever against the majority of opponents; it really doesn't work at close to mid range.

Tort can trade effectively thanks to the stupid dpm and superheavy hp, allowing you to influence matches in a lot mroe situations.

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14 minutes ago, Hally said:

I have 2618 dpg and only 53% win rate in strv 103-0. 2610 dpg and 67% win rate in tort. Tort did the entire stock grind the hard way, with no free exp used. Strv started elite right away. (My tort is probably around 3.2k ish elite.)

Tier 9 strv is decent at farming dmg on lopsided games,but has very little ability to turn an even game into a win. Siege mode requires significant exposure for anything agressive. With armor that does not work whatosever against the majority of opponents; it really doesn't work at close to mid range.

Tort can trade effectively thanks to the stupid dpm and superheavy hp, allowing you to influence matches in a lot mroe situations.

All of my TD's were ground from stock, so adjusted DPG might be needed... But still pro'ly bad.

Agreed on the Strv-0, either I'm struggling to catch up and get damage, or I get to farm, but it's usually on a losing flank, and I don't do enough/soon enough to stop the collapse. Rare are those games where I either get the flank support position, or the enemy team is slow enough in pushing that I get to chew on them. Also, is it just me, or is the Strv-0 slower than the UDES? Hope the StrvB picks back up, as the IX seems sluggish.

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1 hour ago, Kolni said:

It's all relative. The teams set the pace, make use of it. If people collapse very fast on one flank and you don't think you can get anything there, just skip it entirely and make sure you're ahead and ready to capitalize on the next one instead. Commiting to an area is rarely a good idea in a tank without a turret as you get pinned down so easily, I normally play my TDs like redliney mediums instead, just have to keep in mind that if they're slow you're gonna have to cut corners on minmaxing and play a lot more general, which isn't without it's risks.

This post explains why there is difference between (super)unicums and the rest of the pleb (like me): I dont get it at all and you guys make feel like you play a totally different game to what I play. 

Things like these should be put together in some sort of collection and should be the next step for Wotlabs, guiding players towards a more advanced metagame knowledge. 

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