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kaneaaa

Is it me or is the tortoise one of the most useless tanks in the game?

43 posts in this topic

103-0 is way slower than UDES. 103b picks up some of the speed lost. It isn't as fast as udes, and misses out on a number of mountaingoat spots, but is still fast enough to flex around. 103b also bring back the godly accuracy of udes. (103-0 is .08 accuracy worse than UDES and 103B, the difference is pretty huge).

Some TDs don't change that much in dpg from stock to elite, like JT or obj 704. Some TDs, like tort or T95, changes a ton when upgrading to top gun.

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3 minutes ago, nabucodonsor said:

This post explains why there is difference between (super)unicums and the rest of the pleb (like me): I dont get it at all and you guys make feel like you play a totally different game to what I play. 

Things like these should be put together in some sort of collection and should be the next step for Wotlabs, guiding players towards a more advanced metagame knowledge. 

it's probably just me who think about these things

most people point and click like the rest but they just do it good :doge: 

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6 minutes ago, nabucodonsor said:

This post explains why there is difference between (super)unicums and the rest of the pleb (like me): I dont get it at all and you guys make feel like you play a totally different game to what I play. 

Things like these should be put together in some sort of collection and should be the next step for Wotlabs, guiding players towards a more advanced metagame knowledge. 

I mean it's all written here somewhere, it's just hard to find among all the bullshit. But it's also also old because those things he's talking about haven't changed.

I've never played the Tort, but it's a process of deduction. Gun is accurate? Armor is trolly but full of weak spots? Slow? That relates to my experiences in a SuperPershing - keep your distance, commit only when you know, beat people down with accurate dpm while making them take bad shots.

There's only a few archetypes that dictate the style.

2 minutes ago, Kolni said:

it's probably just me who think about these things

most people point and click like the rest but they just do it good :doge: 

Nah that's how I've made my bones. I shoot just above palsy level.

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1 hour ago, nabucodonsor said:

This post explains why there is difference between (super)unicums and the rest of the pleb (like me): I dont get it at all and you guys make feel like you play a totally different game to what I play. 

Things like these should be put together in some sort of collection and should be the next step for Wotlabs, guiding players towards a more advanced metagame knowledge. 

to be fair, my playstyle is as far into someone's face as possible and at points it borders retardation.

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Nevermind, not quite sure what I was trying to say in this post myself anymore. (Why is there no delete function?)

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13 hours ago, Hally said:

I have 2618 dpg and only 53% win rate in strv 103-0. 2610 dpg and 67% win rate in tort. Tort did the entire stock grind the hard way, with no free exp used. Strv started elite right away. (My tort is probably around 3.2k ish elite.)

Tier 9 strv is decent at farming dmg on lopsided games,but has very little ability to turn an even game into a win. Siege mode requires significant exposure for anything agressive. With armor that does not work whatosever against the majority of opponents; it really doesn't work at close to mid range.

Tort can trade effectively thanks to the stupid dpm and superheavy hp, allowing you to influence matches in a lot mroe situations.

I actually did horribly in the tort. I had 65% wr in the at15 and 67 in at7. In Tort I had 51% and that was before the maps got all corridory. The armor didn't work for me. 

 

The STRV is hard at breaking stalemates so you have to learn a completely different playstyle. You have to find places where the enemy will attack you and stop them there instead of supporting pushes in places where your team has an advantage (unless you have a clear line of fire there, then of course do support them). Backwards mobility really helps here.

 

btw. I have also one theory why I do good in the STRV - do you have assault and encounter on? They are shit for many tanks but allow for fine farming on the STRV.

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5 hours ago, hazzgar said:

I actually did horribly in the tort. I had 65% wr in the at15 and 67 in at7. In Tort I had 51% and that was before the maps got all corridory. The armor didn't work for me. 

 

The STRV is hard at breaking stalemates so you have to learn a completely different playstyle. You have to find places where the enemy will attack you and stop them there instead of supporting pushes in places where your team has an advantage (unless you have a clear line of fire there, then of course do support them). Backwards mobility really helps here.

 

btw. I have also one theory why I do good in the STRV - do you have assault and encounter on? They are shit for many tanks but allow for fine farming on the STRV.

64% in udes, 66% in 103b. It's not the playstyle, the 103-0 is just that bad at solopubbing; becuase unlike the other 2, it absolutely sucks at mid range due to lack of armor and inability to limit exposure; and has serious accuracy issues when staying far enough away to fire without being spotted.

Tort is not useless regardless of engagement distance, because while unreliable, it still has armor. It is mostly 240 - 250 effective when angled (which you can do thanks to the huge gun arc.) This amount of armor is very annoying for tier 7s, 8s, and some low pen t9s like E50/patton to engage. Their premium ammo is not reliable, while they are pretty much guaranteed to get penned in return, by a much higher dpm gun that can potentially double tap them. Tort can also trade with most tier 10s and come up ahead tanks to the giant hp pool and dpm.. which is also something the 103-0 can never dream of.

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2 hours ago, Hally said:

64% in udes, 66% in 103b. It's not the playstyle, the 103-0 is just that bad at solopubbing; becuase unlike the other 2, it absolutely sucks at mid range due to lack of armor and inability to limit exposure; and has serious accuracy issues when staying far enough away to fire without being spotted.

Tort is not useless regardless of engagement distance, because while unreliable, it still has armor. It is mostly 240 - 250 effective when angled (which you can do thanks to the huge gun arc.) This amount of armor is very annoying for tier 7s, 8s, and some low pen t9s like E50/patton to engage. Their premium ammo is not reliable, while they are pretty much guaranteed to get penned in return, by a much higher dpm gun that can potentially double tap them. Tort can also trade with most tier 10s and come up ahead tanks to the giant hp pool and dpm.. which is also something the 103-0 can never dream of.

Yeah but somehow I am performing better in the STRV than in my Udes in terms of win rate. The argument that it's bad because some players have worse WR in it is weak. I have worse WR in Tort. SOme people get better wr in the strv. All of them are as valid. For me STRV armor works well. I just need to know where to go. It still plays vision games very well but the quicker siege + t9 godlike mm mean a lot. 

 

Tort has a problem of not being able to react to anything. It can 2nd line fight but it cannot follow the front line very often, it can't get to many position often and the 240-250 effective would be nice if it had higher alpha but the high rof nature of the tank forces you to expose yourself for long periods of time which is a problem with iffy armor, huge weakspots and an overmatchable roof. A good sniper doesn't need armor, a good frontline tank needs more. Tort is in that weird in between place where it works sometimes. 

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Might just be me but I prefer not being limited to niche one-lane sniping. At least the strv B can brawl if needed given the heatshield. Whilst the tortoise is slow, it has amazing DPM and gun handling which the T9 strv simply can't compete against. Also given the fact that city maps completely cuck you into sitting in a grid square at the back, I can only assume the tortoise is flat out better since the combination of HP and DPM lets you out-trade almost all your competition with proper positioning.

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On 04/11/2017 at 3:47 PM, Nekommando said:

I played tortoise before the superheavy meta, and it was the best tank I've ever played. Not anymore, but let's see how WG rework this line (and hopefully give it a bigger gun,better armor or downtier to T8 )

I am generally of the opinion that the Tortoise should be a tier 8 with the Caernarvon 32 pounder, with FV205 at tier 9 and FV217 at tier 10. The torty armour would be good at that tier.

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Played the tortoise again today! Got penned at long range by everything. I still dont get the armour, gun is great though... 

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On 11/4/2017 at 2:10 PM, kaneaaa said:

It's horrific. I've been one shotted through the front by the  fv 215b 183  twice today while covering the tumour and wiggling. Armour is really not actually there.

You're aware of the fact that the 183 will overmatch the majority of your UFP with autoaim right? The biggest part in the middle of the UFP is only 51.5mm thick. This allows the 183 to triple overmatch.

Also, if they're shooting AP at you - you're not going to bounce, even if perfectly angled.

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6 hours ago, kaneaaa said:

Played the tortoise again today! Got penned at long range by everything. I still dont get the armour, gun is great though... 

Tort armor is so that you don't get random penned by HE and scouts, you are merely a 2k HP L1A1 tractor. Which was damn nice, not sure about now.

3 hours ago, simba90 said:

You're aware of the fact that the 183 will overmatch the majority of your UFP with autoaim right? The biggest part in the middle of the UFP is only 51.5mm thick. This allows the 183 to triple overmatch.

Also, if they're shooting AP at you - you're not going to bounce, even if perfectly angled.

HE cannot triple overmatch, but it doesn't autobounce unless it's more than 85 degrees.

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13 hours ago, Fulcrous said:

Might just be me but I prefer not being limited to niche one-lane sniping. At least the strv B can brawl if needed given the heatshield. Whilst the tortoise is slow, it has amazing DPM and gun handling which the T9 strv simply can't compete against. Also given the fact that city maps completely cuck you into sitting in a grid square at the back, I can only assume the tortoise is flat out better since the combination of HP and DPM lets you out-trade almost all your competition with proper positioning.

The thing is no speed means you are shit at playing vision. Poping in and out of a bush takes ages,  you are turning slowly etc. STRV is a one trick pony but it does that trick very well. While Udes has a comfier gun and wotlabs has been known to be biased for comfy tanks (That's why IS4 and Ferdie are undervalued despite performing well even for unis) the STRV works because it's still amazing at vision + has shorter time in and out of siege + has some armor so it will bounce when going out of siege if lower caliber tanks (and there are a lot of them) shoot at you.

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I'm a handful of games into the tortoise... In my hands it has been a feast or famine tank.

Either gloriously hilarious or grossly frustrating..  Maybe I need to kemp with it more.

I do not think this will be a keeper tank for me, too bad .. I was sorta looking forward to playing it.

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7 hours ago, kreigermann said:

I'm a handful of games into the tortoise... In my hands it has been a feast or famine tank.

Either gloriously hilarious or grossly frustrating..  Maybe I need to kemp with it more.

I do not think this will be a keeper tank for me, too bad .. I was sorta looking forward to playing it.

Well, if you have the credits, hold on to it for next patch. Getting rather good armour buffs.

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20 hours ago, kreigermann said:

I'm a handful of games into the tortoise... In my hands it has been a feast or famine tank.

Either gloriously hilarious or grossly frustrating..  Maybe I need to kemp with it more.

I do not think this will be a keeper tank for me, too bad .. I was sorta looking forward to playing it.

Yeah same here. There are some people who defended it when I trashed it but it's trash. At15 works much better t4t because the armor somehow works better. Slow + lots of exposure + low armor doesn't work well in t9 games. Though yeah if you manage to meet a moron who can't pen you and wants to get dpmed to death it's fun. Not that the STRV-0 can't do that even better.

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20 hours ago, Ogopogo said:

Well, if you have the credits, hold on to it for next patch. Getting rather good armour buffs.

Before I knew that the 183 was going to be on track I spent some gold (During the halloween event I "won" two P.Victorias... which I had already bought.. so I had some extra gold to be foolish with. ) to buy the 183 while it was on 15% off. I'm just using the tort to keep training my crew and see if I like it.  

 

It looks like it should be fun.. I just want to learn how to not suck ass in it.. the armor is a lie so it cannot be a t95(hit w laugh while you slaughter them while they pee themselves in panic). The only way I've made it work is to guess where the engagement is going to be AFTER the one that is happening to try to either kill the pushing enemies or retreating enemies.  

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