TheMarine0341

(SPOILERS) The Last Jedi discussion

42 posts in this topic

On 12/20/2017 at 5:15 PM, Folterknecht said:

 

I have tears in my eyes from laughing so hard.  I saw the movie the day after it came out.  Agree totally.

On 12/24/2017 at 10:34 AM, Archaic_One said:

Casino scene = hunger games

Cute birds all over Mellenium Falcon = trouble with tribbles

Rey in training = Sakka from the Avatar (which Hamil was a part of)

Cute giant anthropomorphic faced horse = never ending story (I'm reaching a bit, google Falkor)

What they did poorly: space, light speed, Leia using the force in space, girl power, Laura Dern wearing a purple ball gown, cheaply killing Akbar, IS EVERY FUCKING PERSON NOW A GREAT PILOT OF ANY CRAFT EVEN ANTIQUE MONO-SPEEDERS?,  BB-8 fighting and killing (that one really bothered me), Phasma getting pwned, muppet Yoda visual effects, more timeline discontinuity than an 80's soap opera, the existence of 'general' Hux 

What they did well: The budding love story between Ben and Rey, everything about Lukes swan song at the end, the greatest pole vault in the history of cinema, Benecio Del Toro's stutter, muppet Yoda dialogue, Rose, the little kid at the end, Kylo not turning, Rey not turning, Chebacca cooking a beautifully basted bird on a stick over a campfire

Forgive me for what I am about to say.  I think even Phantom Menace was better than this installment, I rate it as the worst of the 8.  It never has that moment where you sit back in your seat and say 'Damn!' that all of the others had.  It tries to be too many things for too many characters.  Even in the prequels, Lucas never deviated from the story of the core characters.  Luke, Leia, Han, Vader - Ben, Anakin, Padme, Palpatine.  They dominated the dialogue and everyone else was a supporting character who's back story was widely unimportant.  Both VII and VIII go way too far in trying to be vehicles for everybody when the story should really be about just Rey, Finn, and Kylo.  This is where the story jumps the thread and sadly also the shark.   

It's sad that there is no original screen writing any more, since the original movies.  

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On 12/21/2017 at 2:44 PM, TheMarine0341 said:

Ive watched it twice now

The Last Jedi (TLJ) did several things which I did not see as possible, given the mess we were granted with The Force Awakens (TFA).

1) Luke is physically no longer in existence. And, tastefully done. It makes sense to me given the story they were handed by JJ (I also believe if they had known Carrie was going to die, it would have worked out differently)

2) THEY GAVE US A FUCKING YODA CAMEO!!! And, it made sense!

3) I have issues with the way Leia's powers were displayed. But, what it does show is her natural affinity for the Force in the first place. (but, korny as fuck)

4) Sacrifice meant something. Sure, the Death-Star-Planet killed billions. Oh well. The opening scene had sooo much more impact just from 1 person's sacrifice

5) The silence after ramming the last Order with the starship in light speed... perfect.

6) Yes, the movie had its flaws. But, I can appreciate how the genre of the Force was pushed

7) The entire theme of the movie makes sense: Failure is the best teacher. There cannot be a perfect hero, nor can there be a perfect villain. I don't think anyone was really supposed to succeed this movie, and was an attempt to add layer to its characters beyond "Light=Good. Dark=Bad. Kill each other"

8 - The complexity of Kylo Ren is something missing from Antagonist. His character arc makes SENSE for a change

My views have softened a bit after a second viewing.  I largely agree with your points.  Some people hate Luke's death.  I thought it was poignant, well handled, and necessary.  And I'm absolutely certain we'll see his force ghost in IX.  Speaking of force ghosts... Yoda's actually uses the force to affect the material world.  That's a game changer.  I want to see if that was a one off thing, or if we might see a force ghost battle at some point.

I didn't take issue with Leia's force use.  We've known she's strong in the force, she's just never put in the same kind of training as Luke.  I totally buy her being able to tap into it at the brink of death. 

On sacrifice... ehh.  I think they took away what would have been the most meaningful one.  When Finn was going to ram the siege laser.  It was a strong character moment.  He spent the first film trying to run away.  He's back to wanting to run at the beginning of this film.  But through his actions and experiences, he's come to view a cause as more important than his own life, and is willing to make a sacrifice.  Then, it gets sidetracked by a thoroughly boring character.  It would have been better if Poe did that.  Have the "one man against the world" character telling someone else to live to fight another day.  

I'm torn on the hyperspace ram.  As a visual spectacle, it's incredible.  If this were a standalone movie, that'd be my favorite moment.  But it's not a standalone movie, so it forces me to ask too many questions.  Why not use this technique more often?  Slap some engines and guidance systems on an asteroid and Boom!  Instant death star killer.  

I'm mostly on board thematically, save for one major flaw.  Something that may be my biggest gripe at this moment.  It the film betrays its own philosophy in a major way.  Luke is critical of the old Jedi order.  He calls them out, and rightly so.  He states that the Jedi religion must end.  In one of my favorite scenes, he explains the force as a natural phenomenon, rather than a power that Jedi/Sith have some right to.   And in that scene, it has a very balanced light/dark motif.  In the temple, you see the image of the Prime Jedi, who is balanced light and dark.  Yoda helps Luke let go of the books and the tree, insisting that something new should follow. Then it gets thrown away at the end, when Luke tells Kylo "I will not be the last Jedi."  Perhaps this will be cleared up in IX.  Maybe Rey becomes a balanced force user, embracing the light and dark, growing beyond the dogmatic Jedi, and defeating dark-side only Ren.  

 

On 12/24/2017 at 11:34 AM, Archaic_One said:

  It never has that moment where you sit back in your seat and say 'Damn!' that all of the others had. 

It  did for me.  When Luke explores the Falcon.  Then runs into R2.  Suddenly, 30 years drop off of his tone of voice, if only for a moment.  He says nothing can get him to help Rey.  And then... R2 shows him the old "Help me Obi-Wan" message.  

That was my Star Wars moment.  

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10 hours ago, Deusmortis said:

My views have softened a bit after a second viewing.  I largely agree with your points.  Some people hate Luke's death.  I thought it was poignant, well handled, and necessary.  And I'm absolutely certain we'll see his force ghost in IX.  Speaking of force ghosts... Yoda's actually uses the force to affect the material world.  That's a game changer.  I want to see if that was a one off thing, or if we might see a force ghost battle at some point.

I didn't take issue with Leia's force use.  We've known she's strong in the force, she's just never put in the same kind of training as Luke.  I totally buy her being able to tap into it at the brink of death. 

On sacrifice... ehh.  I think they took away what would have been the most meaningful one.  When Finn was going to ram the siege laser.  It was a strong character moment.  He spent the first film trying to run away.  He's back to wanting to run at the beginning of this film.  But through his actions and experiences, he's come to view a cause as more important than his own life, and is willing to make a sacrifice.  Then, it gets sidetracked by a thoroughly boring character.  It would have been better if Poe did that.  Have the "one man against the world" character telling someone else to live to fight another day.  

I'm torn on the hyperspace ram.  As a visual spectacle, it's incredible.  If this were a standalone movie, that'd be my favorite moment.  But it's not a standalone movie, so it forces me to ask too many questions.  Why not use this technique more often?  Slap some engines and guidance systems on an asteroid and Boom!  Instant death star killer.  

I'm mostly on board thematically, save for one major flaw.  Something that may be my biggest gripe at this moment.  It the film betrays its own philosophy in a major way.  Luke is critical of the old Jedi order.  He calls them out, and rightly so.  He states that the Jedi religion must end.  In one of my favorite scenes, he explains the force as a natural phenomenon, rather than a power that Jedi/Sith have some right to.   And in that scene, it has a very balanced light/dark motif.  In the temple, you see the image of the Prime Jedi, who is balanced light and dark.  Yoda helps Luke let go of the books and the tree, insisting that something new should follow. Then it gets thrown away at the end, when Luke tells Kylo "I will not be the last Jedi."  Perhaps this will be cleared up in IX.  Maybe Rey becomes a balanced force user, embracing the light and dark, growing beyond the dogmatic Jedi, and defeating dark-side only Ren.  

 

It  did for me.  When Luke explores the Falcon.  Then runs into R2.  Suddenly, 30 years drop off of his tone of voice, if only for a moment.  He says nothing can get him to help Rey.  And then... R2 shows him the old "Help me Obi-Wan" message.  

That was my Star Wars moment.  

You've described my views on the movie very well. I actually liked Luke's death. It made sense. I do agree that the hyperspace ram was incredible, but definitely leaves behind that plot hole of "Why didn't someone do that sooner?" I hope you're right on Rey turning into a balanced force user, hopefully they won't manage to mangle something like that up. I had the same Star Wars moment.

As for my own thoughts, I'm not a fan of the casino scene, it seems really heavy handed. I know star wars isn't exactly subtle, but come on. I've also given up completely on realistic space physics in Star Wars movies at this point. 

The salt planet thing had some really, really cool aesthetics to it. It was quite visually impressive. At first I had thought Luke was going to pull something like Obi Wan did, fighting Darth Vader on the Death Star. I was not expecting the force projection, or whatever you call it, but it was really, really cool. 

I also loved the music callbacks to the original trilogy, especially Binary Sunset, which is one of my favorite star wars pieces of them all, and it fit really well.

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There were a lot of things I liked and didnt like about the movie. It was very pretty and exciting to watch but I dont think its a movie that will be good to watch over and over.

I dont like the starting point. The republic rolled over so quickly, and I do understand that they were demilitarizing but they still have all those ship yards and things like Kuat and Corellia. I would have much rather seen the republic turn around and re-engage all its industrial power. Sure they should be on the back foot for a while rebuilding but even then broad strokes of the plot would have still worked and you would have been able to get some amazing starship fights (or foreshadow it coming up for the next movie). Instead the whole galaxy rolled over in what felt like minutes. They just won a massive victory destroying this incredibly powerful base, the threat of annihilation is gone so get angry dont roll over and submit, or if you do roll over at least pretend to be dead. It feels like they are trying to recreate the little guys take on the giant star empire and win like they had for the originals. I would have much preferred to see this have been about fighting to maintain what was won in the previous trilogy rather than throwing it all away. Also for that matter starkiller base was a massive investment in resources that was lost. Why did they need the base if they had enough fleets to take control of the galaxy? They could have easily built so many more fleets for the resources and not had it be so easy to destroy.

I didnt care that the movie basically opened with a joke and then had that whole bomber scene. It was pretty but so many things dont make sense like a complete lack of point defense, the one fighter taking down the remaining defenses, the bombers with gravity bombs which felt like they were going for a WWII style bombing but it felt out of place, also the complete failure of command structure that that worked. I guess it was supposed to set up the Po being impulsive and uncontrollable.

There are a bunch of interconnected things with the hyperspace tracking and the mutiny that really annoyed me. I don't have a huge problem with the idea of light speed tracking but it also makes things really kinda lame since they can just follow whenever they want and there is no longer the enemies searching since they know immediately. It was also the set up for the whole trip to the casino which was just awful. I can understand to some level the purple admirals secrecy but Po was at that point one of the highest people in command. The mutiny could have easily been prevented but it was also resolved super quick or she could have just explained what she was doing at that point. I would have much preferred that there was a spy on the ship and the sub story was about them rooting out the spy and then at least the secrecy would have made sense.

The whole subplot with Finn and that Asian girl. The Asian girl was a terrible character. She was boring and a bit preachy. The actor was uninteresting. I literally did not care whether than character lived or died she was so dull. It feels like they tried to introduce another hero and this one is just awful. The whole subplot felt completely out of place and didnt really make sense. Also the get there immediately get arrested and then meet a master code breaker in their cell and then escape. And the escape felt like it was humor smushed with a disney movie a bunch of animals running through a casino breaking things and lots of interesting looking characters behaving in silly ways. The whole section felt like it was a heavy-handed preachy political commentary.

Leia's lack of death. Fisher died long before the movie was done and she should have died in this movie and they really missed an opportunity I think. She had two key points when she could have died. The first was when the bridge blew up. And honestly I was expecting that was where they were going to kill her and it would have been a good and interesting death that does actually throw a wrench in that the leadership is gone. But nope, she finally becomes fully in tune with the force and floats back to the ship. I would have been fine with it if they had done anything in VII that she had become more in tune with controlling the force, maybe not a full jedi but something willfully and not just feeling her husbands death. Also the way it was animated her floating back felt really awful. It reminded me of the tanks rolling over the hill in episode I where it suddenly looks laughably bad. It looked like someone had opened powerpoint stuck a picture of leia over a picture of space and then used the powerpoint animation that moves pictures around. It also did take her out of the movie for almost all of it that she could have died without changing much. The second big shot was that she could have piloted the cruiser instead of the admiral. That would have been such and amazing and bad-ass way for her character to die rather than just dying or whatever they will probably do for IX probably get some voice somehow and a bit of animation to kill her.

There was a lot of humor in it that felt out of place and it would be randomly thrown in there. Some things like the rocks being broken and breaking the wheelbarrow and the porgs were amusing even if they didnt feel so much like a star wars movie and more like a lord of the rings movie. Other things like Finns compression suit and the rampage through the casino didnt really make sense or add anything. And then there was some other things that I think were supposed to be humor like when we was milking that creature with the green milk. I couldnt tell if it was humor or if he was just sexually assaulting this thing. It was strangely sexual especially with the creature staring back at rey like 'you want some?' and really uncomfortable.

I didnt like Lukes character. It didnt really make sense. He went from Ive made this map so you can find me in times of great trouble to  leave me alone Im an old man I just want to die. Also he went from I see the good in you father in the second most evil man in the entire galaxy to my nephew has some darkness in him, I should kill him. The whole plot of this trilogy doesnt make sense in Lukes character. There are ways they could have made it work like something that Snoke had gotten into his mind and was the reason he tried to kill Ben and that is why he cut himself off from the force but it is left completely unexplained that his character just looks like shit.

I really enjoyed the scenes of Kylo and Rei talking and being connected and the hints of redemption for Kylo. There were a bunch of points with it starting in Episode VII with how torn up Kylo was after his fathers death and them him holding his fire against shooting at his mother and then him killing Snoke. They did a lot of development of Kylo in this movie which I really enjoyed and killing Snoke was really cool that they were trying to set up his path to redemption only for him to then immediately go back to his whiny bitch self and undo all the development they had done.

Snoke death was really cool when you watch it the first time but I think they really missed the mark with what they could have done with it. Leaving out the view other lightsaber spinning would have been much better surprise. Snoke was this mysterious and extremely powerful character that winds up dying in a rather lame way. I would have preferred to see that when Snoke is struck he just laughs and for a few seconds destroys them offering something about how they are fools if they think hes done. It sets up Snoke to be the main villain still and have Kylo continue on his path to redemption. They arent going to add a new baddie so it sets up Kylo to be the baddie that it will probably come down to a lightsaber duel between Kylo and Rei which is kinda lame. They had tried to justify that Rei was so powerful because as Kylo grew in power Rei's power grew as well that Snoke could have let Kylo turn seeming to be losing only to show that has Kylo turns to light both Kylo and Rei lose their powers.

The codebreaker character I didnt care for. It felt like they were trying to introduce a new Han Solo but then decided at the end to not go with it. It would have been fun to see his layers of double crossing keep going deeper rather than just yup the rebels are cloaked. For that matter how did he know they were getting off on cloaked ships. He shouldnt have knowledge of that. Also they have scanners which can scan for cloaked ships, why the fuck arent those just part of a scanner sweep? Im sure there could be reasons like it takes longer or something, then do a normal scan first and then a cloaked scan or something.

The lightspeed ram was really awesome and Im so glad they finally did it. The silence after the ram was perfect and it was visually beautiful. But, it brings up the question why the fuck havent they done it before or weaponized that? Make missiles with light speed drives on them. Light speeding an X wing would have been a great way to blow up the Death Star. Also why the fuck did it take you so long to do that. You are fly the ship knowing you are going to die. Why did you not do that as soon and the first transport was fired on. Also for that matter it was revealed they knew they were being tracked. Why didnt you jump in closer drop everyone off in the transports and jump away? Also does the first order not have more fleets that they couldnt jump a ship slightly closer or on the other side or can you not make really tiny light speed jumps?

I didnt care for the Hoth salty planet scene. It was very much a call back to the Hoth scene from Episode V but this one felt really weak. It was immediately undone and everyone can immediately make the salt scooters work just fine. The Asian girl also ramming Finn so he wouldnt sacrifice himself annoyed me. First off the positioning doesnt make sense she would have to be going so much faster than he was to ram him like that which should have also killed both of them. But the forced love plot or love triangle they are setting up I just dont care for at all. The "we win by saving what we love not destroy what we hate" was so annoying. First off you two have known each other for six hours or so at best you are infatuated but second you cant save what you love when the things that you are preventing destroying are in turn destroying what you hate, like a massive cannon that is about to destroy your base and kill everyone inside. I would have rather Finn died either by ramming the cannon or just not getting there in time and the cannon firing through him.

Rei gets absurdly powerful as the plot needs her to. One scene she can barely control a lightsaber and the next she has total control of it, she can suddenly take down those red guys who are supposed to be super good fighters and save Kylo once or twice, and she can suddenly use the force to lift all those rocks so they can get out of the tunnel. The timeline also doesnt make sense. I think it is supposed to be that Rey's story is quite a bit longer given the other story is literally about six hours but they dont really show that and present it like it is happening all at the same time which makes things very confusing.

Lukes arrival and Astral Projection was really cool but really only once. Now that you know whats happening it's not exciting or enjoyable. The lightsaber fights in the prequels were very pretty and good to watch over and over and this isnt. When he walked out there and then was still standing after the barrage from the new ATAT it was like "oh yeah this is happening" and we were going to see the full power of Luke but instead we got a lame lightsaber fight that gave us two dodges and that was about it. The astral projection was cool but there needed to be some point to it over being there himself. From one side it does show his power but not in any exciting or meaningful way and his death felt unsatisfying. It would have been so much more awesome if he was actually there swoop in blow up a few ATATs and then have his craft blow up and have him land in the middle or crash and walk out then do the barrage and a full proper fight and once the Millennium Falcon flew off let himself be struck down as a martyr or evaporate into the force then.

I think the biggest mistakes the movie made though were the hyperdrive tracker and setting up Kylo to be the main enemy. They should have gotten rid of the hyperdrive tracker and use a spy since it spawned the awful sidestory and some very confusing character actions which would have suddenly made sense. They could have used the 45 minutes or so of that subplot rooting out the spy and giving us more about Rei's training and growth since she is still the same character or more about what happened with the temple or more about Snoke or more of Kylo's training. Killing Snoke without hint that he will return is also a big mistake. It takes away a lot of Kylos development as a character but it also sets us up that we know the last battle will be Rei and Kylo rather than some uncertainty about what Snoke can actually do. We know what Kylo can do and even if he gets stronger it wont be interesting.

As a movie on its own it was pretty enjoyable but it feels out of place and it feels like they arent writing a trilogy but three movies in a row. Some parts of it feel like someone made a full movie out of a poorly written fanfic and that the Asian girl is a self insert. The character is dull and immidiately one of the heroes falls in love with her and the character has a dark past of slavery and escaping and losing he sister while at the same time being a character with a lot of abilities. The movie itself is full of plotholes and things that didnt make any sense and they could have done a much better job with it.

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The demilitarizing thing is just more shitty writing. Only reason it's in there is to recreate the power balance of the original trilogy.

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I though episode VII "A new SJW hope" was bad, it was a shitty remake, with highly unlikable characters. But at least they managed to conceal the propaganda beneath a somewhat coherent coherent story. This one was not able to even do that, they needed to purge the series of heroes, of "grand narratives", the push for pure unabashed propaganda was so big that the phantom menace looks decent, and that one was made just to sell toys.

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On 12/29/2017 at 0:43 PM, Inciatus said:

snip

Nailed it even better than I could have.  

I'm still the most torn up about BB8 independently taking the initiative to hijack a walker on his own and deliberately kill storm troopers.  That to me was such a huge departure from what they have spent 40 years establishing droids to be.  Even the trade federation battle droids were simple drones that acted on orders . . . if cannot trust your mech-droid to not go on a killing spree, what can you trust?

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55 minutes ago, Archaic_One said:

Nailed it even better than I could have.  

I'm still the most torn up about BB8 independently taking the initiative to hijack a walker on his own and deliberately kill storm troopers.  That to me was such a huge departure from what they have spent 40 years establishing droids to be.  Even the trade federation battle droids were simple drones that acted on orders . . . if cannot trust your mech-droid to not go on a killing spree, what can you trust?

It was sort of cute and amusing but that feels like what they were going for. R2 would go ahead and do his own thing as he saw it was needed. I think it would have been much better to have that codebreaker character be the one in the walker and then you do have an interesting chaotic neutral character that shows up later rather than probably a one off character.

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I'm just to copy-paste my thoughts from an answer I posted on Quora: https://www.quora.com/Which-part-of-The-Last-Jedi-did-you-feel-ruined-the-movie-for-you/answer/Adam-Jorgensen-2?__filter__=all&__nsrc__=1&__snid3__=1850886029

Quote

Right, just to be fair I didn’t think TLJ was terrible (Well, I did for the first few minutes after I left the theatre) but more just very disappointing.

Why was it disappointing?

Because it wrapped an hour or so of awesomeness inside another hour and a half of stuff that was either mediocre or terrible.

This, for me, TLJ was disappointing on the whole.

What in particular troubled me?

Well, the very first thing that set my teeth on edge was the terrible humour. The jokes in the movie by and large fell flat (With the exception of the scene where Luke tickles Rey with a leaf, that was really funny) and in doing so ruined various parts of the movie for me by disrupting my mood and trending it towards the negative.

Beyond that, I felt that pretty much every character other than Luke, Kylo and Rey got pretty much shafted by this movie in that the plotlines and scenes they were a part of did them no justice.

Now don’t get me wrong, I understand what the director was trying to do. For example, taking Poe Dameron on a journey of self-discovery from hothead flyboy to a somewhat more collected and cautious position. However, I felt that doing this by effectively reducing his IQ to 70 was a terrible way of going about it. This happened to other characters as well. They all got hit with the stupid bat as a way to get them to stay the course on their incredibly foolish and poorly planned plotlines.

The tactic of having characters behave with sub-normal intelligence is a staple of horror movies and it works in those films because you get a kind of perverse pleasure in watching the idiot characters get punished for being idiots.

This is not a good way to run characters outside of horror movies though and it shows in this film through the numerous things people are calling plot holes , many of which are really just more like characters doing dumb things because the plot demands it.

Examples include Leia (a veteran of the struggle with the Empire, now ranked as a general with something like 30 to 40 years of experience in the conflict with Empire and First Order) allowing Poe to engage in his Pyrrhic attack mission at the beginning of the film despite clearly knowing it was a bad idea secondary to their aims at the time (escape). This paints the character as stupid and weak-willed, an impression one doesn’t get anywhere else.

Another example would be the way in which Rose flip-flops from being such a by-the-numbers hardass that she’s tasering people attempting to flee the ship to getting in on a clearly mutinous plan to head off on some ridiculous McGuffin fetch quest within the space of 10 minutes. For me, this was terrible plotting and really damaged her character.

This movie had plenty of potential to exapnd on Finn’s character as well, maybe delving a bit more into his past and how it’s affected him (I’m guessing someone raised from birth to be a storm trooper can’t possibly be a happy person without all the mental conditioning active) but rather than do that it instead painted him as being cowardly and yet also weirdly fixated on Rey to the extent he’ll jump on board any ride that might lead him to her because….they hung out for much of TFA…huh?

I could go on but by and large this case of horror movie brain syndrome ruined most of the character’s plotlines for me.

The one other thing that has been troubling for me is the online discussion around this on both sides.

On one side I see people claiming that those who didn’t love the movie to bits are just misogynistic neck-beard fanboys who can’t cope with change and are blind to the “genius” of the director (He’s a good director, I loved Looper, but I don’t think he’s quite genius level yet…)

On the other side, I see fanboys getting bent into weird shapes sperging about all the manner of silly plot-holes in the movie while ignoring the deeper issues in the film.

Honestly, in terms of discussion this binary sillyness is almost as disappointing

 

On 26/12/2017 at 8:18 AM, conjay810 said:

Oh certainly, its possible for women to beat men at certain physical activities that heavily emphasize female strengths over male ones. Star-wars-esque lightsaber fighting is, however, obviously in the male court.

Er...come again? How exactly does a weapon whose blade basically consists of energy benefit from male strength? A lightsaber is not a Zweihänder...

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7 hours ago, OOPMan said:

I'm just to copy-paste my thoughts from an answer I posted on Quora: https://www.quora.com/Which-part-of-The-Last-Jedi-did-you-feel-ruined-the-movie-for-you/answer/Adam-Jorgensen-2?__filter__=all&__nsrc__=1&__snid3__=1850886029

 

Er...come again? How exactly does a weapon whose blade basically consists of energy benefit from male strength? A lightsaber is not a Zweihänder...

I find that the heavy use of people locking blades seems to benefit greater strength. The idea that male physical advantages are limited to only strength is false, since strength and size play into many other advantages too, especially given training that they possess over Rey.

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1 hour ago, conjay810 said:

I find that the heavy use of people locking blades seems to benefit greater strength. The idea that male physical advantages are limited to only strength is false, since strength and size play into many other advantages too, especially given training that they possess over Rey.

Meh, this whole locking blades thing is nonsensical anyway with weapons which are basically focused plasma streams. 

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Especially when they are essentially using a form of telekinesis to actuate much of the combat.  Thats part of the problem of the whole of light saber combat for me anyway - after showing us the Yoda - Dooku battle, they set the bar so high that its not really possible to imagine the light saber as anything other than an extension of the users force powers.  Obviously size and strength meant nothing to yoda as a combatant - the plasma was nothing more than an extension of his years of training.

This is really why I cannot buy into Rey (or young Luke on Bespin for that matter) holding up in combat with raw untrained force ability against a well trained and experienced foe like Vader/Kylo.

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Looking back some more at the opening joke it looked like Po was loading something and may have been trying to buy a bit of time but it was left unexplained and barely noticeable. I think a little throwaway line at the start like Po: "okay BB8 we need to buy a bit of time before the virus (or bug or whatever) gets their shields down"  BB8: beeping turn head back and forth, then pause for a moment and the open the hail. Then it turns from much less of a joke to something meaningful to whats going on and presents him as clever rather than an annoying idiot.

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I believe Po was charging the afterburner thing on the back of his X-Wing

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12 hours ago, mostlyhybrid said:

I believe Po was charging the afterburner thing on the back of his X-Wing

I don't know what it was specifically but it would at least address why an X wing could take down all the point defense on the dreadnought and seem to completely ignore shields since he wasnt firing torpedos.

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That entire battle was just bad - from the plot armor x-wing to the gravity bombs to the warp tracking was all just such an ugly reminder of Disney's heavy handed desire to sell toys instead of hire good writers.  The sad part is that I will still go to see the next movie, but increasingly I'm beginning to think my kids won't.  GG Disney, kids are seeing through your bullshit and losing interest in their dads tired old franchise.

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On 1/4/2018 at 10:19 AM, Archaic_One said:

The sad part is that I will still go to see the next movie, but increasingly I'm beginning to think my kids won't.  GG Disney, kids are seeing through your bullshit and losing interest in their dads tired old franchise.

Oddly enough, my grand niece and nephew (14 and 12) loved it far more than their father and me (43 and 37.)

In fact, I'm seeing a lot of people who are new to the series really liking this film (while disliking Rogue One) while a lot of SW diehards feel the opposite.  Could be confirmation bias, however.

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