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Sipher351

New build

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Well, it's finally time for a new build after limping my trusty old rig along these past 2 years. My backup backup GPU finally toasted (mostly) and I'll be getting my yearly bonus soon so seems like a good time. 

First, I'll honor my retiring system which was stalwart and never let me down: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/YnXtVY. Some of the parts are too old for PC Part Picker to have so there's also a Thermalright Ultra-120 extreme 1366 rev. C cpu cooler, Intel X-25M 120GB SSD, Asus Rampage II Extreme Mobo, and Sapphire Toxic Radeon 4870. It was a good run my friend!

 

Now for the fun stuff. Help me build my next 8+ year system!

CPU

I've been debating between the 7700K and the 8700K, but it seems like the 8700K will be the way to go. If the price was significantly higher on the 8700K I think there would be more room for debate, but as it's only ~$50 USD more for 2 more cores I think this is a no brainer. The only other serious consideration would be if there is some issue with the Intel 300 chipsets compared to the 200 ones but so far that doesn't seem to be the case.

CPU Cooler

I'm sticking with air as noise doesn't really bother me too much (short of all out screaming from it) and I don't have some lofty OC goal in mind. I'll be happy to just take what I can get comfortably on my chip. As for the cooler itself, good grief these things have grown since my old one, and I thought it was massive at the time. Without having memory or a MoBo picked out, it's hard to settle on the right one since I don't have sizing data. Need some suggestions here. Also need to find a good paste to pair with it.

GPU

This one hurts. I've always been a Radeon fan but right now the Vega just isn't that competitive at the top (and you can't find them in stock anyway). Going NVIDIA seems the only real option here, but I'm not a fan of the price points at all. I remember the good old days when getting the 1-2 step down card was a solid value at around $350 USD and only the wacko enthusiasts had to shell out over $500. If I want to get a 1080 though that's what I'll have to spend and I'm not happy about it in the slightest. Getting a 1070 seems....unfulfilling.

I haven't yet decided what I want to do on resolution. I feel like I'd rather have 1440 on good frames than 4k on 40 frames, but I've never laid eyes on either in action myself so I have no real eyeball test to back that up with. If I do really want to consider 4k with high frames that puts me in 1080 Ti territory (and I was cringing at the $500 price point lol).

Is it worth considering older entries (980 Ti, maybe 1070 Ti) and maybe waiting for the next gen of cards?

PSU

My old PSU is still running solid, so I see no reason to replace it. Seasonic 850W fully modular. Double checked the PCIE support and it includes 6+2 connectors so I should be good for whatever graphics card I decide on.

Memory

I think my memory selection was my biggest miss on my last build. I bought what I thought would be reliable and would work with my build (which it did, with no issues at all over 9 years). I paid 0 attention to timings and only minimal attention to speed. Once I got around to OC'ing my CPU (a few years after I first built it), my memory was just blah and wasn't able to contribute much. This go around, I want something that will compliment my OC on the CPU, something that I can actually tune and tweak. I'm looking to stay with 2 sticks if possible (affordable). Obviously has a serious impact on what CPU cooler I can mount. Also need to determine what amount. Is 8 even reasonable anymore? 16? 32?

MoBo

I'm pretty lost here. I went with ASUS last time because of good reviews and reliability. Also had a nice setup for OC which was great for me since it was my first go around. Now there are more boards than I can throw a stick at. ASUS alone has like 12 entries that would work and are affordable. Pretty much any in my consideration will be more than capable of whatever OC I want to do, and I have to consider new features like M.2 slots. M.2 definitely seems like the way to go for my OS SSD so I definitely want to take advantage of that, but I'm a little confused on the PCIEx4 vs Sata bit here, and also on the keying.

One thing I can say is that I have a case with no windows/glass that sits on the floor behind my desk so I don't give a flip about RGB strips or any of that. If the best board for me has it included, I'm OK with it but not seeking that out in any way.

SSD

Want to take full advantage of whatever speed I can get from M.2. Probably 500 GB but perhaps 1 TB as well if the price is right. The Samsung 850 EVO is/was the king of the SATA era SSDs; are their 960 EVO M.2 offerings as good?

Monitor

I'm pretty hopeless on monitors. Right now I have a meh Dell that I got for free because my mom won it in a raffle at work that only goes up to 1080p so I'd need a new one regardless of what I decide to do in regards to GPU and resolution.

 

Here's my part picker build which is pretty barren right now of course. The case is also the one I'm currently using since it's a solid case and I'm not having any issues with it right now. Only drawback to re-using it is no USB 3.1 ports, only 3.0 ones. Not a big deal since I don't have any USB 3.anything devices anyway. https://pcpartpicker.com/list/N6KQ8K

Thanks!

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Ooo boy, now is really not the time.  GPU and RAM prices are batshit insane, and with Ryzen+ around the corner CPU prices should drop too.

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How serious are you about CPU OC?

 

  • The thing is that Intel mainstream CPUs since Ivybridge more or less need delidding to reach their potential. My guesstimate for aircooling on the 8700K that isn't delidded is around "allcore" 4.7 - 4.8 GHz without going totally nuts and installing a monstrosity from Noctua or BeQuiet that clocks in at 1000+ grams. You can buy delidded CPUs from places like https://siliconlottery.com/. Before going with huge and hvy aircoolers I 'd go AIO instead. Delidded a 8700K can reach up to 5.2-5.3 GHz with luck and "reasonable" voltages (<1.4V)
  • CPU and RAM OC arn't connected anymore like in the good old days of Gulftown. There is no FSB anymore that will bring RAM speed over the limits of the ICs. You go mostly by multiplier for the CPU and the bus speed stays the same. Still I 'd go with something like 3000 - 3600MHz CL15 and 2x 8 GB DDR4 at least (amount of RAM depends on the applications you use)

 

 

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You can save a couple hundred going with kabylake (7700k) and even more with ryzen (1700).
Coffelake (8700k) is the best in the gaming department but I don't think it's worth the extra cost when the socket is dead.

GPU - 1440p would be 1070Ti (preferably 1080) territory if you're looking for higher refresh rates.

RAM - 16GB of anything with good cas timings @ 3000MHz

Practically any mid-tier Z270 board is fine.

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1 hour ago, Sipher351 said:

First, I'll honor my retiring system which was stalwart and never let me down: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/YnXtVY. Some of the parts are too old for PC Part Picker to have so there's also a Thermalright Ultra-120 extreme 1366 rev. C cpu cooler, Intel X-25M 120GB SSD, Asus Rampage II Extreme Mobo, and Sapphire Toxic Radeon 4870. It was a good run my friend!

Funnily enough I'm still on X58, it was a fantastic platform. Of course I've updated it a bit along the way, I have an X5660 (6c/12t), 24gb of RAM and a GTX1080.

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1 hour ago, Folterknecht said:

How serious are you about CPU OC?

 

  • The thing is that Intel mainstream CPUs since Ivybridge more or less need delidding to reach their potential. My guesstimate for aircooling on the 8700K that isn't delidded is around "allcore" 4.7 - 4.8 GHz without going totally nuts and installing a monstrosity from Noctua or BeQuiet that clocks in at 1000+ grams. You can buy delidded CPUs from places like https://siliconlottery.com/. Before going with huge and hvy aircoolers I 'd go AIO instead. Delidded a 8700K can reach up to 5.2-5.3 GHz with luck and "reasonable" voltages (<1.4V)

I plan to OC it of course but I'm really not that serious about it. I just want to get what I can out of it. $45 bucks to send it off to someone else to delid it for me though is appealing as I don't trust myself enough not to bork it up.

As for an AIO cooler, I'm a little torn on this. I don't particularly want to mount a 1200 gram monster cooler, but I also don't want to have to deal with shuffling everything around to accommodate a radiator either. I have too many HDDs (7) to fit both them and a radiator on the front (I am going to get larger drives to consolidate). Top mounting would lose me the large 200 mm top fan for exhaust. Then I'd worry about airflow for the GPU and other parts. I could try for the bottom mount but then I'm in dependent on the surface I place the system on.

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Afaik you could buy the 8700K directly from silicon lottery.

 

That aside - do you have any applications that would profit from SSDs with high sequential read/write? For most people a decent SATA SSD is more than enough and they won't notice the difference between a NVME SSD and a regular SATA SSD. These NVME drives are usually a little bit more expensive.

 

Do you have any preferences regarding monitors? 16:9 (27-28"; 1440p) or 21:9 (~30"; 3440x1440 )

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I have an Asus 1070 - Running Wot on Ultra I get a steady 110-120 fps at 2560 x 1440 with G-sync.
But hey if that feels unfulfilling then that's on you.

My advice... Don't spend up large just yet. A 1070 will be able to play every game on the market. Graphics will not really increase much until the release of the next consoles as the gaming market is geared toward this (the games need to run on the current consoles which are running old hardware!)  

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1 hour ago, NZStevie said:

I have an Asus 1070 - Running Wot on Ultra I get a steady 110-120 fps at 2560 x 1440 with G-sync.
But hey if that feels unfulfilling then that's on you.

My advice... Don't spend up large just yet. A 1070 will be able to play every game on the market. Graphics will not really increase much until the release of the next consoles as the gaming market is geared toward this (the games need to run on the current consoles which are running old hardware!)  

To be fair, it is WoT. With my FPS unlocked I run nearly 300 on ultra on a 1070.

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5 hours ago, Folterknecht said:

Afaik you could buy the 8700K directly from silicon lottery.

Looks like it, but it costs $45 just for the delidding. Newegg has the 8700K for $404, and the cheapest they have on silicon lottery right now is $480 because of their binning. And honestly, having someone else do the OC and just spit out voltages takes the fun out of it too.

 

5 hours ago, Folterknecht said:

That aside - do you have any applications that would profit from SSDs with high sequential read/write? For most people a decent SATA SSD is more than enough and they won't notice the difference between a NVME SSD and a regular SATA SSD. These NVME drives are usually a little bit more expensive.

No, not really. Looking at the 850 EVO 500 GB SATA vs the 860 EVO 500 GB NVME, it's about another $100. $200 more if I jump up for the 1 TB which I probably will. I just figured if I could I probably should for posterity's sake, but basically gaming and watching videos is all I will use this build for. Looking at some performance testing from my good friend google, looks like it's totally a wash for gaming so I might as well save $200 bucks (hey, that's almost enough to get to a 1080 Ti from a 1080). Good call.

 

5 hours ago, Folterknecht said:

Do you have any preferences regarding monitors? 16:9 (27-28"; 1440p) or 21:9 (~30"; 3440x1440 )

This is the original monitor I bought with my build: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001307, it's a 19 inch 16:9, nothing super special. The free monitor I got as a gift is this one, https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=9SIA6ZP6M02485, a 27 inch 16:9. I use the 27" as my primary and the 19" as a secondary for like a chrome tab or something while I game. I don't think I've ever seen actually seen a 21:9 display but I watch enough movies on my PC that I would probably balk at the letter boxing, so I should probably stick with 16:9. 

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7 hours ago, Fulcrous said:

You can save a couple hundred going with kabylake (7700k) and even more with ryzen (1700).
Coffelake (8700k) is the best in the gaming department but I don't think it's worth the extra cost when the socket is dead.

GPU - 1440p would be 1070Ti (preferably 1080) territory if you're looking for higher refresh rates.

RAM - 16GB of anything with good cas timings @ 3000MHz

Practically any mid-tier Z270 board is fine.

The 7700K is $290 on sale on Newegg, the 8700K is $404 so just over $100 difference, but the retail on the 7700K is $350 normally. If it really was hundreds I'd definitely consider the 7700K (don't use enough threaded apps to really consider the Ryzen) but for a max $100 delta, I'll take the Coffee Lake.

Any dog MoBos you would avoid? I would be fine sticking with an ASUS model since I have always had good experiences with their stuff.

7 hours ago, woe2you said:

Funnily enough I'm still on X58, it was a fantastic platform. Of course I've updated it a bit along the way, I have an X5660 (6c/12t), 24gb of RAM and a GTX1080.

It really was, I never expected to make it this far on this machine. Best $2000 I ever spent. 

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10 hours ago, woe2you said:

Funnily enough I'm still on X58, it was a fantastic platform. Of course I've updated it a bit along the way, I have an X5660 (6c/12t), 24gb of RAM and a GTX1080.

That is quite funny, I was on a X5680 till recently. I still run it as my Media PC, but I'm going to mothball it as I now have a X99 rig which I picked up for buttons in clearance sales. 6850k+X99 Mobo for £280, GET IN! 

 

To OP, That build sounds fine, but I'd look at a 1080 in the January sales.

 

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3 hours ago, Sipher351 said:

Looks like it, but it costs $45 just for the delidding. Newegg has the 8700K for $404, and the cheapest they have on silicon lottery right now is $480 because of their binning. And honestly, having someone else do the OC and just spit out voltages takes the fun out of it too.

 

No, not really. Looking at the 850 EVO 500 GB SATA vs the 860 EVO 500 GB NVME, it's about another $100. $200 more if I jump up for the 1 TB which I probably will. I just figured if I could I probably should for posterity's sake, but basically gaming and watching videos is all I will use this build for. Looking at some performance testing from my good friend google, looks like it's totally a wash for gaming so I might as well save $200 bucks (hey, that's almost enough to get to a 1080 Ti from a 1080). Good call.

 

This is the original monitor I bought with my build: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001307, it's a 19 inch 16:9, nothing super special. The free monitor I got as a gift is this one, https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=9SIA6ZP6M02485, a 27 inch 16:9. I use the 27" as my primary and the 19" as a secondary for like a chrome tab or something while I game. I don't think I've ever seen actually seen a 21:9 display but I watch enough movies on my PC that I would probably balk at the letter boxing, so I should probably stick with 16:9. 

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/F0lterknecht/saved/qKrPsY

  • CPU - 8700K
  • GPU - GTX 1070 Ti; makes the most sense atm price/performance wise when looking at 1070, 1070Ti an 1080. It's basically a 1080 once you manually overclock it, while price is between 1070 and 1080
  • SSD - just used a 500GB SATA SSD here from Samsung
  • added a 165 Hz 27" 1440p G-Sync monitor. What you are writing there is a littlle confusing. The monitor from Dell is a 24 or 25" with 4K resolution ... *confused. When you are mostly into gaming I 'd keep the small one as backup/secondary and sell the Dell. 4K at that "small" monitor size doesn't make sense much and can't be good for the eyes (deciphering text without scaling, which is bad under windows). Also pushing 4K resolution even with a 1080Ti is more than a little demanding, if you want all the eye candy. High FPS and eye candy at 1440p is the way to go for gaming imo.
  • Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you wrote something about 7 HDDs and constraints when it comes to mounting an AIO. For that reason I picked a case that can handle that (HDDs ->front; AIO ->top). It also comes with USB 3.1 type C. Just as something to take a look at ... ;-). Also removing the top 200mm fan and replacing it with a 240mm AIO that 's pushing the warm air out of the case works fine while front fan(s) are the intake.
  • Related to the case issue (point above) I selected an AIO. I use that model myself and I'm happy with its performance. It comes with 4 high quality PWM-fans for push/pull. I'm using only two like most other 240mm AIOs and it works very well.
  • Assuming you go with an AIO you will have no cooler-RAM clearance issues. I picked 2x 8GB which is perfectly fine for gaming. The moment you go with big air coolers you 'll have to start selcting RAM carefully otherwise you can run into conflicts with you first RAM slot(s) and sometimes even with the top PCIe x16 slot for the GPU.
  • The motherboard is a solid model from Asrock - they arn't bad anymore like 15 years ago, where only ECS managed to produce bigger junk. They make good mobos, if you arn't shopping in the bargain basement. The one I selected uses the same power delivery as their top model.

 

 

-------------------------

 

 

unrelated - my Delid tool just arrived :-)

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3 hours ago, Hokum15 said:

That is quite funny, I was on a X5680 till recently. I still run it as my Media PC, but I'm going to mothball it as I now have a X99 rig which I picked up for buttons in clearance sales. 6850k+X99 Mobo for £280, GET IN!

I blame X79 for being a bit shit. Nice bargain.

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6 hours ago, Folterknecht said:
  • What you are writing there is a littlle confusing. The monitor from Dell is a 24 or 25" with 4K resolution ... *confused. When you are mostly into gaming I 'd keep the small one as backup/secondary and sell the Dell. 4K at that "small" monitor size doesn't make sense much and can't be good for the eyes (deciphering text without scaling, which is bad under windows). Also pushing 4K resolution even with a 1080Ti is more than a little demanding, if you want all the eye candy. High FPS and eye candy at 1440p is the way to go for gaming imo.
  • Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you wrote something about 7 HDDs and constraints when it comes to mounting an AIO. For that reason I picked a case that can handle that (HDDs ->front; AIO ->top). It also comes with USB 3.1 type C. Just as something to take a look at ... ;-). Also removing the top 200mm fan and replacing it with a 240mm AIO that 's pushing the warm air out of the case works fine while front fan(s) are the intake.
  • Related to the case issue (point above) I selected an AIO. I use that model myself and I'm happy with its performance. It comes with 4 high quality PWM-fans for push/pull. I'm using only two like most other 240mm AIOs and it works very well.
 

On my monitors, the Dell is 27" but it only supports 1080p, the 19" is 1440x900. I wouldn't be using either as a primary if I wanted to try out 4K, I would need a totally new monitor regardless, same with 1440p. 1440p sounds like the way to go though.

As for the AIO, I am planning on getting some bigger spin drives (right now I have 4 1 TB drives and 3 360 GB drives; I'm using two IDE spin drives [git on my level]) and condensing into fewer drives but I would probably still end up with 2 HDDs, a 2.5 SSD, and then my DVR drive over at the front. If I keep my current case I could still mount the rad up top and you're probably right, 240 venting out over the rad would probably work just as fine as my 200, it's still moving air in that direction inside the case. I wouldn't have a massive heatsink that I'm trying to exhaust anyway.

I'm guessing you have yours set up in just push from what you said. If I was that worried about it, my current case can mount two fans to the side panel and two more to the bottom so I add 2/4 fans and point them in to make sure I'm getting plenty of positive pressure.

I'm just nervous about water. I know a closed loop system from a good source is a solid choice but there's always that first time hesitation about a leak shorting my entire system lol. Are AIOs shock sensitive at all? I'm expecting a move sometime in 2018 or perhaps 2019 so is it safe to leave it in there while I move?

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9 hours ago, Sipher351 said:

The 7700K is $290 on sale on Newegg, the 8700K is $404 so just over $100 difference, but the retail on the 7700K is $350 normally. If it really was hundreds I'd definitely consider the 7700K (don't use enough threaded apps to really consider the Ryzen) but for a max $100 delta, I'll take the Coffee Lake

Once you factor in mobos, it is a couple hundred in delta price.

In regards to silicone lottery, I would probably add that they guarantee the OCs they provide at reasonable voltages. So while it does take the "fun" out of OCs, it guarantees you don't get cucked by the lottery.

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1 hour ago, Sipher351 said:

I'm guessing you have yours set up in just push from what you said. If I was that worried about it, my current case can mount two fans to the side panel and two more to the bottom so I add 2/4 fans and point them in to make sure I'm getting plenty of positive pressure.

My AIO is venting out of the top of my case - best position for an AIO.

1 hour ago, Sipher351 said:

I'm just nervous about water. I know a closed loop system from a good source is a solid choice but there's always that first time hesitation about a leak shorting my entire system lol. Are AIOs shock sensitive at all? I'm expecting a move sometime in 2018 or perhaps 2019 so is it safe to leave it in there while I move?

System integrators (SI) love AIOs for that reason! They are easy to ship mounted inside the case without much risk, not like monster air coolers ... . If you want to move with the PC in the future, you 'll have to remove the GPU and at least screw down you HDDs, better remove them completly. Tooless mounting brackets for HDDs arn't suited for that.

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If you won't go with liquid, you should check out the nh-d15s which is basically a smaller version of the d15 cooler

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i was nervous about water but if it was as bad as nzxtreddit claimed, they would be out of business. I'm currently satisfied with my Kraken x62s but I have a noctua DH 15 as backup if the pump dies.

If you're truly worried just get a noctua dh15. its on par with AIO CLCs (once factoring AIO specific heat capacity).

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7 hours ago, xmenxmen2 said:

If you won't go with liquid, you should check out the nh-d15s which is basically a smaller version of the d15 cooler

 

4 hours ago, Fulcrous said:

i was nervous about water but if it was as bad as nzxtreddit claimed, they would be out of business. I'm currently satisfied with my Kraken x62s but I have a noctua DH 15 as backup if the pump dies.

If you're truly worried just get a noctua dh15. its on par with AIO CLCs (once factoring AIO specific heat capacity).

I think I'm actually going to give an AIO a shot for once. My case could certainly handle a large air cooler but it's getting almost out of hand with just how ridiculously large they've gotten.

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1 minute ago, Sipher351 said:

I think I'm actually going to give an AIO a shot for once. My case could certainly handle a large air cooler but it's getting almost out of hand with just how ridiculously large they've gotten.

I would just be aware, the cost for AIOs are much steeper than noctuas. And noctuas are miles quieter for nearly half the price.

I spent $200 CAD on my kraken x62s and $100 on the Noctua DH.
Performance is roughly the same (initial temps have a large delta but that's because of water's specific heat capacity).

I'm currently spending another $50 CAD to get 2x 140mm fans to replace the NZXT ones because I think they're a bit too loud and want push/pull.

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The claims that big air coolers are on par with 240+mm AIOs is nonsense. They beat single fan 120/140mm AIOs and usually are on the same level or slightly ahead of push/pull 140mm AIOs with a thick rad and good fans.

There are several issues with many test results that you 'll find online when it comes to comparing cooling performance.

  • many AIOs come with really poor fans, while on the other hand Noctua or BeQuiet fans are known to be among the best. No testing is conducted with reference fans in most cases.
  • testing with CPUs that are unsuited for performance evaluations of coolers. Everything from Ivybridge to Coffeelake without delidding and proper liquid metal application is "worthless". The 2nd issue with these small Intel CPUs is their relativ small heat output - though dense - doesn't really bring top end coolers be air or AIOs to their limit. AMD CPUs while being soldered to the IHS have always had issues with their temperatur sensors (idle temps under room temp ...)
  • test loads generated by programms that arn't producing stable loads (heat output)
  • mounting pressure, seating and TIM application seems to be an issue now and then
  • open test benches favor air coolers in relation to the usual scenario where AIOs usually function as intake/exhaust in a closed case and the air cooler "sits" in the oven stirring up the warm air and contributing to it.

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12 hours ago, Fulcrous said:

I would just be aware, the cost for AIOs are much steeper than noctuas. And noctuas are miles quieter for nearly half the price.

I spent $200 CAD on my kraken x62s and $100 on the Noctua DH.
Performance is roughly the same (initial temps have a large delta but that's because of water's specific heat capacity).

I'm currently spending another $50 CAD to get 2x 140mm fans to replace the NZXT ones because I think they're a bit too loud and want push/pull.

I would have thought the same thing (and some are) but the Arctic Folter recommended is only ~$90 USD (includes 4 fans also but can't comment on their quality) and has quality reviews. Price is one of the biggest reasons I stayed away before but for basically the same price, I'm gonna give it a shot. 

 

4 hours ago, Folterknecht said:
  • many AIOs come with really poor fans

Speaking of fans, how are the ones that come with the Arctic AIO? In fact, all the fans in my case are stock ones from Cooler Master (my one side fan I poached off my last Cooler Master case as well). Think I should bother replacing them? With the rad going top the 200 is a throwaway, so then I'd have two red LED 120s up front, the 140 on back, and another 120 on the side panel, with room for 3 more 120s if I so desired.

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In both reviews you can see what a difference decent fans make for AIOs - despite the fact that 4 fans should make more noise than 2 like the competition uses, it stays quiter.

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