Kolni

New Russian Tanks Coming with Update 9.22

230 posts in this topic

5 hours ago, hall0 said:

I saw Anfields pen test video on the Obj 257 yesterday and I am concerned. The 430U he used to pen it wasn't able to pen the sides reliable. (I tell you nothing new here :P) 

But why I am concerned is the following. WG can't really change this. Unlike the German box tanks or this turret bug one post above, the armor does not come from thickness. It is just ridiculous angled. And I can't think of a case WG changed the angling of armor plates. At least not in a huge amount like it would be necessary here. So what can they do? Change the whole model or at least the hitbox model to an unrealistic but gameplay acceptable level? Make the sides overmatchable? 

This whole angled sidearmor, spaced armor bullshit which creates blackholes eating all the shells was always on of the reasons Russian tanks forgive mistakes and make it perfect beginners. But this is a whole new level of bullshit. 

I guess they could try turning the turret armor into hot dogshit 

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5 hours ago, hall0 said:

I saw Anfields pen test video on the Obj 257 yesterday and I am concerned. The 430U he used to pen it wasn't able to pen the sides reliable. (I tell you nothing new here :P) 

The people in these videos are purposely not shooting in the right places. Unlike the IS-3/IS-7, you can pen the side of the 257 on the hull above the tracks (i.e. the part that isn’t sloping downward). I think it’s about 200 mm effective. Also, the pike nose gets even weaker when overangling the side. This is all without mentioning that the entire turret roof is overmatchable.

That won’t be a problem for tier 9 and 10, but the tank will shit on tier 7 and 8 like most other tier 9 heavies do. 

Circon’s real gripe was that it reversed everything you’ve learned about shooting the sides of high-tier IS tanks. You need to shoot the 257 side in what would be the spaced armor blackhole of an IS-3 or IS-7 side. 

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3 hours ago, monjardin said:

The people in these videos are purposely not shooting in the right places. Unlike the IS-3/IS-7, you can pen the side of the 257 on the hull above the tracks (i.e. the part that isn’t sloping downward). I think it’s about 200 mm effective. Also, the pike nose gets even weaker when overangling the side. This is all without mentioning that the entire turret roof is overmatchable.

I'm sorry, I'm just gonna stop you here for a second. We're talking about a T9 heavy tank, with a side armor that doesn't allow you to track it and do damage. And with the weakest part of the side armor being 200mm thick* and covering like 1/5 of the overall side profile, so unless you're up close it's just RNG if you hit it. Just let that sink in for a second. 

*unless he's angling his side upwards or you're under him, which will probably be very rare and could be tough to judge if it's at an angle you can pen. At that point the side armor is only 160mm thick, thicker than same tier superheavies like Type 4 and Mauschen.

But hey, I guess it doesn't have best gun on it's tier, only above average, and UFP can be penned with HEAT, and the mobility looks mediocre, so it's fine :)

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4 hours ago, Marty said:

I'm sorry, I'm just gonna stop you here for a second. We're talking about a T9 heavy tank, with a side armor that doesn't allow you to track it and do damage. And with the weakest part of the side armor being 200mm thick* and covering like 1/5 of the overall side profile, so unless you're up close it's just RNG if you hit it. Just let that sink in for a second. 

There are 10 of them per side on the test server at tier 9. I didn't have trouble dealing with them.

If you know where to shoot, then I don't think that the armor is as good in practice as the theory-crafters have lead everyone to believe. Where are the videos of 257's going ham?

All that I'm seeing are training room shots of people shooting down on 140 mm plates at ricochet angles. Have you seen anyone try from 50 m away?

Take a look at the penetrating tracking shots after 3:09 in that video.

I will say that the hull traverse speed should probably be nerfed. It's way out of line with similar tanks and even blows away the Object 260 in that department.

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8 hours ago, monjardin said:

The people in these videos are purposely not shooting in the right places. Unlike the IS-3/IS-7, you can pen the side of the 257 on the hull above the tracks (i.e. the part that isn’t sloping downward). I think it’s about 200 mm effective. Also, the pike nose gets even weaker when overangling the side. This is all without mentioning that the entire turret roof is overmatchable.

That won’t be a problem for tier 9 and 10, but the tank will shit on tier 7 and 8 like most other tier 9 heavies do. 

Circon’s real gripe was that it reversed everything you’ve learned about shooting the sides of high-tier IS tanks. You need to shoot the 257 side in what would be the spaced armor blackhole of an IS-3 or IS-7 side. 

You mean spaced part? Ehm no. 90° direct into the sides tanks.gg gives you ~220-258mm. And this is totally non angled. Above the spaced you get your 200 pretty much the same as on the IS-7. Spaced armor is as blackholy as it is on all Russky Heavys. Just below the spaced there is a small area with ~200mm. A bit lower and the fun with the angling starts. Only a fool would call this a weakspot. Angle a bit and you get numbers up to 500 and more. Cool story. This side armor is flat out better than the IS-7s and it is a tier lower. 
And as usual pike noses get worse if you angle it. But hey. Even angled too hard, it still gives you 250-260mm protection without the flater shoulders the IS-7 has to deal with. Facing an enemy who is not willing to shoot gold you are safe.
Not being able to get tracked with dmg is just the cherry on top. But hey it has an overmatchable roof. Definitely balanced. 

We are discussing numbers here and not feelings. And just by the stats comparing it to other tanks we can already see a picture. And just because there are no "going ham" videos of a tank which has been released just one day ago that does not mean the tank is good to go. I don't even know why this should be an argument at all. 

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Don't worry, the purpose of light tanks and medium tanks is to flank heavies and shoot them in the sides where their armor is weaker . . . 

A 13-90 cannot pen the side of this tank if it is circling it.  Yes, at 50+ meters it has a chance to pen it, but LTs don't do 100m circles.  Even best case scenario, tier 9-10 LTs are looking at 70% chance to pen side hull, almost no chance to pen side of turret (even back side of turret).

FFS, I'm glad I'll have one - its got decent mobility, a good gun, and tier 10 armor.

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Amazing, another Soviet Super tank.

The good part is the IS3 might get a buff now, because it might have trouble when fighting this thing, cant have a tier 9 tank too strong for the IS3 (i guess IS3 needs 5 km/h better top speed and 0.31 acc + 1 sec faster reload)

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I think that for WG everything is balanced till tank has 5 degree gun depression. It may get mobility, camo, view range, all round armor and gun as long as it keeps 5/6 depression. 

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4 hours ago, MacusFlash said:

I think that for WG everything is balanced till tank has 5 degree gun depression. It may get mobility, camo, view range, all round armor and gun as long as it keeps 5/6 depression. 

I guess we read the same pub forum topic

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zg0PusG.png

Copied from my status update.

 

I had to make sure to pull my crews and remove camo/equipment to get the right base values on the IS-7, E100, 263, and 430. Since I have all those tanks :P

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On 21/01/2018 at 5:55 AM, Archaic_One said:

Don't worry, the purpose of light tanks and medium tanks is to flank heavies and shoot them in the sides where their armor is weaker . . . 

A 13-90 cannot pen the side of this tank if it is circling it.  Yes, at 50+ meters it has a chance to pen it, but LTs don't do 100m circles.  Even best case scenario, tier 9-10 LTs are looking at 70% chance to pen side hull, almost no chance to pen side of turret (even back side of turret).

FFS, I'm glad I'll have one - its got decent mobility, a good gun, and tier 10 armor.

You just made me realize this tank will be almost impossible to circle.. it also has better track rotation then T-10... Rip lights..

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20 hours ago, MacusFlash said:

I think that for WG everything is balanced till tank has 5 degree gun depression. It may get mobility, camo, view range, all round armor and gun as long as it keeps 5/6 depression. 

And a shitty base accuracy. All of these new tanks, all of them, has among the shittiest base accuracies in the tier.

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1 hour ago, leggasiini said:

And a shitty base accuracy. All of these new tanks, all of them, has among the shittiest base accuracies in the tier.

Which doesn’t matter as much as you’d think due to centre weighted shot distribution. 

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19 minutes ago, CardinalMite said:

Which doesn’t matter as much as you’d think due to centre weighted shot distribution. 

Given the choice tho...

Sadly this whole 'optimised for short range combat' is just their way of getting even more RNG into the game. In all honesty i thought they would have buffed the accuracy on the lights by now given how ordinary they are, but they seem set to keep pushing in this direction for more BS.

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36 minutes ago, CardinalMite said:

Which doesn’t matter as much as you’d think due to centre weighted shot distribution. 

Exactly, all it does really is that it makes the tanks just more unfun to play with.

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49 minutes ago, CardinalMite said:

Which doesn’t matter as much as you’d think due to centre weighted shot distribution. 

Sorry but you are wrong here. This is a mantra everyone repeats but it mattered when bad t10 accuracy was 0.35 or 0.37 but 0.4 and above is shit at t10 engagement ranges. Try to play some of the new lights and you will see how reliable fully aimed shots are at 0.4 acc

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1 hour ago, hazzgar said:

Sorry but you are wrong here. This is a mantra everyone repeats but it mattered when bad t10 accuracy was 0.35 or 0.37 but 0.4 and above is shit at t10 engagement ranges. Try to play some of the new lights and you will see how reliable fully aimed shots are at 0.4 acc

You are missing the point, 0.4 acc is crap but centre weighted distribution helping you roughly a third of the time is little use at LT engagement ranges and alpha but you get some HT with big alpha pulling off ridiculous snap shots a third of the time and that hurts. Point is they are using smoke and mirrors balancing over armoured heavies by saying , “look but they are inaccurate”. LTs on the other hand really should be more accurate in general. 

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9 minutes ago, CardinalMite said:

You are missing the point, 0.4 acc is crap but centre weighted distribution helping you roughly a third of the time is little use at LT engagement ranges and alpha but you get some HT with big alpha pulling off ridiculous snap shots a third of the time and that hurts. Point is they are using smoke and mirrors balancing over armoured heavies by saying , “look but they are inaccurate”. LTs on the other hand really should be more accurate in general. 

You underestimate heavy engagement ranges. Very often you still have to do some 150m+ shots after you leave the brawling area. 

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End of the day this tank will be able to -

1. Drive out sideways from a corner, and completely get away with it.

2. Get circled and flanked by mediums and lights and survive more often then not.

3. Drive into stupid cross-fires or into group of tanks and have a much higher chance of surviving then any other tank.

We already have the Maus line with this 'can't track and pen it' ability to reward idiots, but this tank just takes it to the nth degree.

It's completely counter intuitive to the whole learning curve of the game, mediums and lights are told to flank and circle heavies, this tank says fuck you.

Poking corners sideways is a no no cos you could get tracked and punished, this tank says go right ahead you'll get away with it.

Heavies are supposed to keep their best armour facing the enemy, except this tank where you can show your full side and bounce.

It's stupid and is just a recipe for frustration, even if there are certain spots or certain distances where you can pen this tank in the side it doesn't matter RNG and the HEAT of the battle means that goes out of the window.

This tank will punish skillful play and reward retards. 

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1 hour ago, hazzgar said:

You underestimate heavy engagement ranges. Very often you still have to do some 150m+ shots after you leave the brawling area. 

Sure and that is where your inaccurate gun is supposed to be a disadvantage to make up for the big alpha and great armour. 

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47 minutes ago, CardinalMite said:

Sure and that is where your inaccurate gun is supposed to be a disadvantage to make up for the big alpha and great armour. 

And it is. It will continue the new trend in WG design = shit to play with, shit to play against. 

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6 hours ago, CardinalMite said:

Which doesn’t matter as much as you’d think due to centre weighted shot distribution. 

The shot distribution got nerfed pretty hard a while back. IIRC, it was patch 9.6. That change, for example, turned the FCM 50t from a snap-shot king to a POS. I think you've been slightly less like to hit the edge of the reticle since then, but with 0.4+ dispersion you really need to hit the center at anything but face-hugging range.

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3 hours ago, monjardin said:

The shot distribution got nerfed pretty hard a while back. IIRC, it was patch 9.6. That change, for example, turned the FCM 50t from a snap-shot king to a POS. I think you've been slightly less like to hit the edge of the reticle since then, but with 0.4+ dispersion you really need to hit the center at anything but face-hugging range.

I have been hitting shots over 400m on the move with an IS2. Plus 0.40 is base value. Add vents food and bia an you get decent accuracy. Not like a 50m but workable

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16 minutes ago, nabucodonsor said:

I have been hitting shots over 400m on the move with an IS2.

I’m pretty sure that if you do a Google image search for “lucky shot,” you’ll see a giphy of your IS-2 snapshot on the move at 400 m. 

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13 minutes ago, monjardin said:

I’m pretty sure that if you do a Google image search for “lucky shot,” you’ll see a giphy of your IS-2 snapshot on the move at 400 m. 

No, that would be after 3 pages of T49 shots.

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