ZXrage

Upcoming Changes (2018+) (PEARL RIVER RETURN???)

62 posts in this topic

21 hours ago, Archaic_One said:

Do we really want to play a game where a super heavy tank or assault TD can drive unopposed across mailnovka in the face of 4-5 hull down mediums with impunity?

Medium tanks should utterly dominate heavy tanks, this idiotic meta where heavy tanks driving across an open field could be considered valid is just silly.  This is Murazor catering to the masses that are not good enough to do anything but blap each other in the face at 50m. 

Obviously this is a game and not reality, but there is a reason that real tanks(TM)  went away from the heavy tanks by 1950.  WW III would have been fast moving T-62s, Pattons, and Leopards using great guns on mobile platforms at longer range to kill each other.  Slow clunky armored heavies should be what beginning players drive until they learn to play real tanks.

Instead, in the most competitive levels of ranked battles, we have games where all 30 tanks are fictional heavy tanks/TDs slinging HEAT at each other because mediums are no longer competitive.

Well, the mediums are fast, so they can flank (instead of go hull down and gun down said heavy with HEAT)

Long, long ago, when there was no gold ammo (or tier 10 tds and meds) the game was also fine, infact, tier 9 mediums with 220 pen ruled the game, not IS7`s or mauses, best platoon was 2x T54 and an IS7 or E5, the T54** because: Rashia and the tier 10, so you had atleast 1 non-cripled tier 10 tank

**: while many M46 fanboys where drooling over the dpm / alpha dmg of the M46, the real sealclubber was the tank imprevious to 175mm pen / highly resistant to 200mm pen guns: T-54 (before HEAT-54, it was alrdy the best, T-54-lyfe & T-44-lyfe

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1 hour ago, GehakteMolen said:

Long, long ago, when there was no gold ammo (or tier 10 tds and meds) the game was also fine, infact, tier 9 mediums with 220 pen ruled the game, not IS7`s or mauses, best platoon was 2x T54 and an IS7 or E5, the T54** because: Rashia and the tier 10, so you had atleast 1 non-cripled tier 10 tank

You always omit one important thing when making this "game was so gut when there was no gold ammo" argument: players were fucking trash.

I mean, T10 looked almost as bad as T1 kind of bad. Nobody knew what sidescraping was so heavies just peaked sideways. Nobody knew safe ways to cross so they were crossing through empty open field. People didn't have their favorite camping spots so you were able to actually use some parts of the map to flank (it's more due to this than map design).

https://www.youtube.com/user/aerophobic2/videos 

Look at some videos of mediums from this channel. It's literally farming bots. If you gave people maps and tanks from 2011 now, it would not work.

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Flanking sounds like a great idea until the bushwookie STRVs annihilate you.  I mean really, meds should easily be able to flank with or without prem ammo - except WG has made flanking pure suicide by TD on open maps or nullified it with terrain on Abby, Mines, El Halluf, Sacred Valley, etc.

I loved tier 5 when I was a newb because flanking is still kind of a thing at low tiers with fast blind tanks.  At tier X, flanking with a squishy medium is pretty sketchy.

I'd gladly give up prem ammo if guns hit where they were aimed and hits to weak spots were sure to pen.  Instead even accurate guns put fully aimed shots in the dirt and dead on hits to the sides/hatches/LFP bounce.  Prem ammo is basically RNG insurance and RNG is the crutch that levels the playing field for the hordes of drunk russian pubbies.

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18 hours ago, GehakteMolen said:

Well, the mediums are fast, so they can flank (instead of go hull down and gun down said heavy with HEAT)

Long, long ago, when there was no gold ammo (or tier 10 tds and meds) the game was also fine, infact, tier 9 mediums with 220 pen ruled the game, not IS7`s or mauses, best platoon was 2x T54 and an IS7 or E5, the T54** because: Rashia and the tier 10, so you had atleast 1 non-cripled tier 10 tank

**: while many M46 fanboys where drooling over the dpm / alpha dmg of the M46, the real sealclubber was the tank imprevious to 175mm pen / highly resistant to 200mm pen guns: T-54 (before HEAT-54, it was alrdy the best, T-54-lyfe & T-44-lyfe

Pershing with Long 105 was the real deal fam

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Hadn't thought of that. I agree with Archaic, I'd give up gold ammo for considerably better accuracy. It would solve quite a few of the issues. Armor becomes useful again, as do weak spots. Skilled play (aiming/knowing weak points) becomes encouraged rather than bouncing and immediately pressing 2-2.

 

Bounces, for the most part, piss me off far less than fully aimed shots hitting the mountain peaks in the background. 

 

Plus I wouldn't have to grind credits so much from all this gold spam

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56 minutes ago, TheSovereign said:

Hadn't thought of that. I agree with Archaic, I'd give up gold ammo for considerably better accuracy. It would solve quite a few of the issues. Armor becomes useful again, as do weak spots. Skilled play (aiming/knowing weak points) becomes encouraged rather than bouncing and immediately pressing 2-2.

 

Bounces, for the most part, piss me off far less than fully aimed shots hitting the mountain peaks in the background. 

 

Plus I wouldn't have to grind credits so much from all this gold spam

Hadn't thought of that. I agree with Archaic, I'd give up gold ammo for considerably better accuracy. It would solve quite a few of the issues. Armor becomes useful again, as do weak spots. Skilled play (aiming/knowing weak points) becomes encouraged rather than bouncing and immediately pressing 2-2.

 

Bounces, for the most part, piss me off far less than fully aimed shots hitting the mountain peaks in the background. 

 

Plus I wouldn't have to grind credits so much from all this gold spam.

AW did that, and it was awful. High tiers became "hunt for the 3 pixels where you can pen"-- even though you would hit those spots reliably, finding those spots was a pain.

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My bad for the double post. I usually come on here during my lunch and the service is spotty, didn't see that till now.

 

It would depend on how they implement it. As long as we're not pixel hunting side and rear armor I'm mostly ok with it. I don't think we should be able to pen UFP's  and stuff the way we can here.

 

Making "armor valid" by reducing the amount of shells that even hit their target is just seems silly to me. It's a bandaid.

 

Just like they wanted to reduce the amount of sniping going on so they designed the maps into short range engagements. Doesn't really solve the issue.

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On 27/02/2018 at 6:33 PM, sr360 said:

AW did that, and it was awful. High tiers became "hunt for the 3 pixels where you can pen"-- even though you would hit those spots reliably, finding those spots was a pain.

There's a middle ground between 3 pixel sniping lasers and fully aimed shots flying under tanks though that can be aimed for, AWs current weakspots seem a lot better if samey but it's hard to get any full matches on PC maybe on PS4 it's more populated.

If they make the PVE like in AW they'll kill that competitor off for good even without removing arty from PVP since it seems AW's playerbase is mostly PVErs.

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1 hour ago, RGM79GM said:

There's a middle ground between 3 pixel sniping lasers and fully aimed shots flying under tanks though that can be aimed for, AWs current weakspots seem a lot better if samey but it's hard to get any full matches on PC maybe on PS4 it's more populated.

Isn't PVP in AW now standardized to 5v5? That's what I last heard...

i.e. vision control actually exists, if you get flanked it's your own fault, etc.?

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9 minutes ago, Guardian54 said:

Isn't PVP in AW now standardized to 5v5? That's what I last heard...

i.e. vision control actually exists, if you get flanked it's your own fault, etc.?

Yeah it is but it doesn't let you really compare readily to WoT imo since for me anyway you mostly end up shooting people preoccupied with someone else but I only play LTs,TDs and Chinese MBTs.

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Boosting all tanks accuracy like that would literally trash game balance instantly and also make game overall much duller as removing/nerfing accuracy as a stat would mean one less thing making different tanks feel different. I get that some invidual tanks (like tier 10 scouts, or low tier tanks overall) could get accuracy boost, but all tanks? That would lead for everyone sitting bush camping because anyone spotted would be hit and killed immediately by 10 laser accurate 500m range shoots from other side of map.  Any mistake would be punished much harder. Thing about playing against 10 srtv103b, would be it be funny? Same thing. Current "bad" accuracy makes more room for flanking and moving around map so if you want tanks be more accurate, better invent some mechanism for compensating that. More accurate all tanks are, smaller and tighter maps are effectively.

Like sr360 said, AW tried this in their frenzy of implenting all wot-whiner ideas... and it did not work that well.

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Not really, tier X med APCR has 260-270mm pen, which means that most heavies would still be pretty safe frontally, especially if they are moving.  

Premium ammo is not as much about penetration as it is about minimizing the effects of RNG.  I don't run a straight APCR loadout in my 50B because the 257 AP pen is all that bad, I run all APCR because the cost of RNG stealing half a clip of damage from a giant cardboard tank that only gets 2 clips per minute is too high to risk.

If all four aimed shots actually hit the Maus LFP then 257mm pen would be usable, but we all know that they wont.  One will hit the dirt, one in the tracks and suddenly I just traded 800-500 and the Maus now has a free 29 seconds to push.  

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