Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
lavawing

M103 - M4 51 - Conqueror - A Guide to the Besterest and Baddest 120 mils of Tier 9

17 posts in this topic

After playing ~100 games in the Mle 51, the M103 (some time ago, though), and the Conqueror, here is what I think how these tanks compare. While I can say quite confidently that they are basically different flavours of the same or very similar tank, much like what the T-10 and 1-4 are to each other, I do think that WG has done a good job (intentional or not) of making each of them unique.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


M103 (a.k.a American Conqueror, shit E5, should I skip the M58?)

Pros

  • Troll armour – hull is full of strong and weak zones next to each other, e.g. the larger part of the 103's front drivewheel is 250 effective. Although the 103 may not weather small guns as well as the 51, it's armour works (sometimes!) against Jagdzillas.
  • Rounds corners by driving forward, poking, and bouncing return fire with drivewheel
  • 340 pen HEAT: HEAT is a downside in many situations it is, but the raw pen this gun gets is just too good to give up, especially in an era of Japanese heavies, 320 effective weakspots, IKEA wedges and cykaconq cupolas. 
  • Hull sides: are preangled so will autobounce within a 20 degree arc (also not overmatchable unlike E5's 44 mm).
  • Sexeh

Cons

  • Merely decent accuracy as opposed to 51's sniper rifle and Conq's railgun
  • Merely decent snapshotter, i.e. not a Conq.
  • Limited ammo cap
  • TURRET ROOF UND CUPOLA (FULLCAPS FOR EMPHASIS)
  • Turret ring (also why the fuck is the turret the size of the empire state building?)
  • Not an ideal sidescraper
  • -12 reverse speed (M53/55 senpai yamete)
  • 1850 hp
  • should I skip the M58?

Verdict: 

It's different but worse. Pretty much a tank balanced for 2016 thrown into 2018. Still playable and armour works, but problem is that E5 line is heavily outdated as a whole.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Mle 51 (French conq, French M103, loaded baguette)

Pros

  • Fast (40/15 and reaches it)
  • Agile
  • Can ram
  • Easy to use armour profile
  • BULLI: 260 ufp/220 lfp combo is dank against most Tier 7/8s and some 9s
  • Good gun, best turret bloom + DPM tied with M103
  • Can overmatch STRVs with 127 mil
  • 40mm roof armour 
  • No stock grind


Cons

  • Size, or should I say SIZE(that’s no eiffel tower)
  • Side armour
  • Rip when flanked
  • Prominent cupolas
  • Can't sidescrape
  • 340 pen HEAT will rekt you
  • tfw when you rush to your favourite hulldown spot only to find a T-10 with gold preloaded on the other side
  • 380 VR
  • 315 pen APCR not the most reliable

Verdict:

Very strong tank overall with holy trinity of armour, firepower, and mobility. However size and side armour issues means the tanks’ strength is limited by the degree to which you control the engagement – fortunately the tank is very good at controlling engagements.

Tank is hurt more by high pen gold rounds than the other two, and is significantly worse when your team falls and you need to farm. Also gets fucked by STRVs

Would make a decent Tier 10 if it had 300 more HP, wait, ohhhhh.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Conqueror (British M103, L1A1, Super Caernarvon)

Pros

  • Best gun (325 APCR, laser pointer accuracy, no bloom) also 120 pen silver HESH
  • -10 gun dep makes it stupidly easy to farm people
  • Best defensive tank out of all 3: reliable sidescraper, small cupolas with troll angles, hemispherical turret, spaced armour on cheeks, probably best @hulldown in Tier 9 after ST-I nerf
  • Thickest side armour
  • Most hp at 1950
  • 400 VR

Cons

  • LFP
  • Big, squishy (ammo) rack gets pummelled all the time
  • Driver-san
  • Can’t push against good players smart enough to ignore your tracks
  • 17mm engine deck

Verdict:

The Conq is great at shitting out damage in fair weather or foul. It’s also the best tank for holding positions, and bridges the gap between a broken Tier 8 to a highly desirable Tier 10. However, the tank is a straight downgrade compared to the 10; suffers from chronic cancer focus, is pretty poor for pushing, and suffers from module issues. Play this tank when tilted.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

tldr Which tier 9 should I pick?

All things considered, while all three tanks are reasonably strong in today's meta and matchmaking, the Conqueror sits on the only CW-relevant line, and is the most reliable performer without doubt. On the other hand, the 51 is fun and easily the best tank for solopubbing. Lastly, I don’t see much reason to play the M103 barring……aesthetic reasons.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good review, I agree with everything. On the side note, I really love that BIG CAPS style :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When the M103 is probably the worst tier 9 heavy (not including 50-120) you know the whole class is strong. Nice write up

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

M103 is trash there is no reason to play it. It's a support tank that cant support and the only time it works is when people dont aim at "HIT ME" sign called turret. Hell an IS can overmatch the roof. A t49 with HEAT can pen it. It faces too much competition not only among the 120mm meta but the whole heavy meta. It's worse than an E75 (trading alpha/armour for some pw/t), worse than  WZ/T10 (which have speed, alpha and even armour where it matters (see turret)). It fails as defensive tank (see Conqueror), it fails at bullying lower tiers (E75, 51, maybe 257 and VKB) and it fails as a support tank (Juanito and T10 are way better due to the alpha/mobility).

As much as it pains me to say this the entire line is useless to grind and all tanks are bad except the immortal t29.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a great post.

I haven't played the buffed Conqueror, but it was fantastic even when it lead to the 215b.

I want to love the M103, it's got a great gun and is easily one of the best looking tanks in the game. But the turret roof and cupola negate every single advantage the tank has for me. The E5 line is outdated and the T32, M103, and E5 all need some attention.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, nabucodonsor said:

M103 is trash there is no reason to play it. It's a support tank that cant support and the only time it works is when people dont aim at "HIT ME" sign called turret. Hell an IS can overmatch the roof. A t49 with HEAT can pen it. It faces too much competition not only among the 120mm meta but the whole heavy meta. It's worse than an E75 (trading alpha/armour for some pw/t), worse than  WZ/T10 (which have speed, alpha and even armour where it matters (see turret)). It fails as defensive tank (see Conqueror), it fails at bullying lower tiers (E75, 51, maybe 257 and VKB) and it fails as a support tank (Juanito and T10 are way better due to the alpha/mobility).

As much as it pains me to say this the entire line is useless to grind and all tanks are bad except the immortal t29.

 

6 hours ago, RC_Tank said:

I want to love the M103, it's got a great gun and is easily one of the best looking tanks in the game. But the turret roof and cupola negate every single advantage the tank has for me. The E5 line is outdated and the T32, M103, and E5 all need some attention.

 

I honestly believe that this game is at a stage where there are so many lines that it's next to impossible to introduce something new without invalidating something else that is old. If the 103 and E5 had no cupolas, they would still be uncomfortably similar to the Conquerors. If they went any faster, they would be encroaching on Patton territory. One of the reasons I think there have been so many extreme and gimmicky tanks in the last few patches is that this is the only way to get people to grind them. The Chinese TD line was an utter failure in terms of getting people to play them despite not even being bad; the Emil line OTOH is decently popular despite not being that good.

Write-ups like these were fairly common a few years back when the game was still kind of growing. A year or two ago, the game started to stagnate. Maps became more corridory, and there was a slow but steady removal of frontal weakspots from the game. these changes favour gold-spamming players and players, who, quite frankly, aren't the best at the game. Naturally, wotlabs became went a lot more quiet as vets left. Then there were the new premium Tier 8s which were straight up better than tech tree tanks. Then Tier 8 MM got destroyed so that retards at Tier 10 could feel good about stomping unis and blues at Tier 8. I think it says something about the state of the game when the benchmark for balans, as others have noted, are tanks like the Super Conqueror and the 5A, or the Defender or Patriot at Tier 8. It also says something about our developers that the best tiers to play, if I may say so, which are 7 and 9, are the tiers where they have effectively left untouched.

Right now, Wargaming's way of keeping players is to introduce more and more FotM gimmick tanks which even the baddest of the bads will find quite unique and enjoyable to run. But we are already at a state where something like 10/15 Tier 10s in every match are gimmick tanks: broken as in like the Badger or Super Conqs for hulldown, the 183s, the Jagdzilla, the Grille, the 268 v4, Type5, the STRV. Every one of these tanks is extremely good at their roles and excruciatingly to frustrating to fight when in their element. IMO, this, coupled with goldspam, is what makes Tier 10 cancerous to run.

To make new tanks appealing, WG makes them broken and gimmicky. As the cycle continues, you end up with more gimmick tanks than 'normal' ones. And when  broken tanks become the measure of balance, the game becomes frustrating for all parties involved. As of 9.22, we are pretty much there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, lavawing said:

 

I honestly believe that this game is at a stage where there are so many lines that it's next to impossible to introduce something new without invalidating something else that is old. If the 103 and E5 had no cupolas, they would still be uncomfortably similar to the Conquerors. If they went any faster, they would be encroaching on Patton territory. One of the reasons I think there have been so many extreme and gimmicky tanks in the last few patches is that this is the only way to get people to grind them. The Chinese TD line was an utter failure in terms of getting people to play them despite not even being bad; the Emil line OTOH is decently popular despite not being that good.

Write-ups like these were fairly common a few years back when the game was still kind of growing. A year or two ago, the game started to stagnate. Maps became more corridory, and there was a slow but steady removal of frontal weakspots from the game. these changes favour gold-spamming players and players, who, quite frankly, aren't the best at the game. Naturally, wotlabs became went a lot more quiet as vets left. Then there were the new premium Tier 8s which were straight up better than tech tree tanks. Then Tier 8 MM got destroyed so that retards at Tier 10 could feel good about stomping unis and blues at Tier 8. I think it says something about the state of the game when the benchmark for balans, as others have noted, are tanks like the Super Conqueror and the 5A, or the Defender or Patriot at Tier 8. It also says something about our developers that the best tiers to play, if I may say so, which are 7 and 9, are the tiers where they have effectively left untouched.

Right now, Wargaming's way of keeping players is to introduce more and more FotM gimmick tanks which even the baddest of the bads will find quite unique and enjoyable to run. But we are already at a state where something like 10/15 Tier 10s in every match are gimmick tanks: broken as in like the Badger or Super Conqs for hulldown, the 183s, the Jagdzilla, the Grille, the 268 v4, Type5, the STRV. Every one of these tanks is extremely good at their roles and excruciatingly to frustrating to fight when in their element. IMO, this, coupled with goldspam, is what makes Tier 10 cancerous to run.

To make new tanks appealing, WG makes them broken and gimmicky. As the cycle continues, you end up with more gimmick tanks than 'normal' ones. And when  broken tanks become the measure of balance, the game becomes frustrating for all parties involved. As of 9.22, we are pretty much there.

Too long, glad I read

Its sad to be in a match and realize that there is no a single historical tank in it, which is sadly becoming more and more common.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good write-up, the Conqueror was a beast before its change, the turret front shields IMO weren't too necessary but guess does help when everyone and their dog starts to spam more APCR/HEAT, but the slight drop in DPM as balance, while barely noticeable for what is still an overall great gun, just means you either make your shots count or pay more to make your shots count

the M103 WG can't fuck around with as much as we'd like them to since it actually existed unlike a great deal of the recent tanks they just introduced. it can be good in the right hands and can still perform, but its not very newbie friendly or forgiving of mistakes, and you can't pull off risky maneuvers in the M103 they way you can do so with a lot of other tier 9 heavy tanks.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/10/2018 at 4:38 PM, lavawing said:

tldr Which tier 9 should I pick?

All things considered, while all three tanks are reasonably strong in today's meta and matchmaking, the Conqueror sits on the only CW-relevant line, and is the most reliable performer without doubt. On the other hand, the 51 is fun and easily the best tank for solopubbing. Lastly, I don’t see much reason to play the M103 barring……aesthetic reasons.

 

Can I rephrase the question without being too much off-topic? 

If you would have to pick only one tank in tier 8-10 Conq line, which one would it be? Solopubbing and pubstomping, no CW. Goldspam is not an issue. I have Conq yet, super Conq unlocked, and just one british crew in total...I hated caern back 3 years ago...is it so much better now? better than Patriot/IS-3/VK 100.01 (at bullying)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm considering dropping Vstab on the Conq, and adding Optics and food. I rarely shoot on the move with it, and I'm curious how it'd work out with a 4 skill crew and superior vision.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/15/2018 at 6:05 AM, Felicius said:

Can I rephrase the question without being too much off-topic? 

If you would have to pick only one tank in tier 8-10 Conq line, which one would it be? Solopubbing and pubstomping, no CW. Goldspam is not an issue. I have Conq yet, super Conq unlocked, and just one british crew in total...I hated caern back 3 years ago...is it so much better now? better than Patriot/IS-3/VK 100.01 (at bullying)

The Caern and Super Conq are stronger tier for tier since they don't really have competition for their niches as hulldown tanks with a laser chainsaw, but both sit at cancerous tiers. The Caern is Tier 8, and so, it goes without saying, is better but worse. The Super Conqueror is as much a benefactor of the recent changes as it is a victim. To cut a long story short, Tier 10 is currently cancer to play, with an unreal amount of goldspam - and remarkably resistant 'weak' spots, and where every game is pretty much a race to the nearest corridor so that hulldown tanks can bounce gold off each other's weakspots. I lose 100k on a good game on the 430U.

So if you want to be competitve and best in tier, play the Super Conq. If you just want to have fun and be cheap, the Conqueror is probably your choice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you had options I think you'd struggle to find reasons not to the pick the Conqueror. 

There is no real contest with the M103, if they fixed the overmatch roof, maybe, but at the moment it's just not in the contest.

Initially I thought the Frenchie might take the crown, but having played it more now, and now people are more used to it, a lot of people will just spam HEAT at you and that is you basically being penned with every shot. The Conqueror just holds up to premium rounds much better and because it has the weakspots people it doesn't have this 'spot a Conqueror, load gold' reputation like the M4 51 is developing, the Conq lulls people into thinking they can pen it, but turns out it's harder than they thought and by the time they realise it's railgun has killed them. 

IMO tier for tier, the Conqueror is stronger than the Super Conqueror because it's tier 9. 

There are other tanks that do what the Super Conqueror does, the Badger is just one example, whilst Type 5s and 183s just derp your turret for 500-600 damage with ease. the Conq sees less of these tanks, it sees less strong hull down tanks on it's tier and it actually has better mobility and gun handling than it's big brother.  Plus it has no trouble dealing with those 3 or 5 tier 10s you get in the MM, whilst so easily dominates the 3-5-7 and 5-10 games it frequently gets. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hard to argue with tier 9 MM. I do okay in the Conq. (same stats as my T-10 58% WR etc). But it’s a meh experience for me. For better or worse (mostly worse) I am a yoloer. Yoloing is not the Conq’s forte. Too slow, not enough dpm or armour, and every shot through your front wheel will ammorack you.

So glad to have the Caravan’s ferrocious dpm back with the S. Conq. These two can seriously press a point and are the keepers for me, despite being at shitter tiers. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, sohojacques said:

Hard to argue with tier 9 MM. I do okay in the Conq. (same stats as my T-10 58% WR etc). But it’s a meh experience for me. For better or worse (mostly worse) I am a yoloer. Yoloing is not the Conq’s forte. Too slow, not enough dpm or armour, and every shot through your front wheel will ammorack you.

So glad to have the Caravan’s ferrocious dpm back with the S. Conq. These two can seriously press a point and are the keepers for me, despite being at shitter tiers. 

Play the 51 if you like measured yoloing. Pushing in a Conq is like fighting defensively in an IS-7. It can pull it off but there are much better tanks for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, lavawing said:

Play the 51 if you like measured yoloing.

It looks good. But I haven’t even started that line and seriously need a break from grinding. So see what happens during the next wave of power creep...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

played 1 game Conq, and its no contest whatsoever, even with reduced dpm, the gun of the conq is a tier above anything else on tier 9

Conq >>>>> Amx 51

Amx 51 is so far a dissapointment, would place it in the lower half of tier 9 heavys (below St-1, T-10, E75, and Conq with VK-B and M103 also beiing better) its armour is simply to crap, the ufp is ok, but no side armour and still tons of stuff penning ufp anyway, means you trade away godmode gun handling (conq) for nothing...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.