zbran

Is there still hope for the old pref tier 8's yet!?

44 posts in this topic

Sorry if this has been posted elsewhere I couldn't see it, this is pulled from a Russian Q&A apparently. The guy broke the entire Q&A up into a few separate posts which is handy imo, so be sure to go back to the main page and read the others too. My favourite bit of from this section is "The IS6 is special because of its pen" Yes WG it is specially shit because of it's pen :D

 

https://thedailybounce.net/2018/02/24/developers-qa-preferential-matchmaking-premium-vehicles/

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2 hours ago, zbran said:

Sorry if this has been posted elsewhere I couldn't see it, this is pulled from a Russian Q&A apparently. The guy broke the entire Q&A up into a few separate posts which is handy imo, so be sure to go back to the main page and read the others too. My favourite bit of from this section is "The IS6 is special because of its pen" Yes WG it is specially shit because of it's pen :D

 

https://thedailybounce.net/2018/02/24/developers-qa-preferential-matchmaking-premium-vehicles/

It's not that bad, pen aside it is pretty strong. They just need to buff the pen. Considering it gets pref MM you could give it 190-200 base ap and 230 apcr. It would not be broken in tier 8-9 games but profitable.

The KV-5 is another story because of the r2d2 but the gun could see the same treatment. 

FCM? Buff the handling and/or simply treat it like a medium in the MM, so it gets paired up with mediums and non VKs ect.

I am pretty sure they have thought of something like this already but have not implemented it because: a) I am making a mistake they have seen b) because it is not profitable enough for them.

I think they want to find a way to sell the old premiums to new players and because we have Defenders&Co, the old premiums do not have the same appeal as they used to. So people dont buy them amd WG makes less $$$$ ect ect. So WG will find a dumb way to buff them.

Or paint them red.

 

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11 minutes ago, nabucodonsor said:

It's not that bad, pen aside it is pretty strong. They just need to buff the pen. Considering it gets pref MM you could give it 190-200 base ap and 230 apcr. It would not be broken in tier 8-9 games but profitable.

The KV-5 is another story because of the r2d2 but the gun could see the same treatment. 

FCM? Buff the handling and/or simply treat it like a medium in the MM, so it gets paired up with mediums and non VKs ect.

I am pretty sure they have thought of something like this already but have not implemented it because: a) I am making a mistake they have seen b) because it is not profitable enough for them.

I think they want to find a way to sell the old premiums to new players and because we have Defenders&Co, the old premiums do not have the same appeal as they used to. So people dont buy them amd WG makes less $$$$ ect ect. So WG will find a dumb way to buff them.

Or paint them red.

 

Knowing WG, FCM will prolly get a 250 effective front with no cupolas because of reasons

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3 hours ago, zbran said:

"The IS6 is special because of its pen" Yes WG it is specially shit because of it's pen :D

You missed the point. The pen is special because it's one of the (if not THE) lowest pen gun at T8. That's currently the main balancing factor on the IS6.

FCM "special" in mobility and gun means that it is one of the most mobile heavy in its tier (even beating out some meds) with a relatively high pen gun. Horrid gun handling aside the tank in fact suffered less from the power and armor creep than other tanks. Which means WG probably won't touch the FCM much. A nerf wouldn't be out of the question either because logic. :serb:

KV5's main selling point has always been its durability, combining a sack of hitpoints with relatively decent armor. If anything all it needs is a pen buff to keep up with the armor creep and a small armor buff. I actually hope they keep the R2D2 vulnerability as so to not keep going down the path of frontally impenetrable bricks.

Then again I don't even play the game anymore. :doge:

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2 hours ago, Archaic_One said:

There is no way they are going to let the IS-6 languish in obscurity.  

190mm AP pen and accuracy buff inbound:kappa:

 

56 minutes ago, nabucodonsor said:

It's not that bad, pen aside it is pretty strong. They just need to buff the pen. Considering it gets pref MM you could give it 190-200 base ap and 230 apcr. It would not be broken in tier 8-9 games but profitable.

The KV-5 is another story because of the r2d2 but the gun could see the same treatment. 

FCM? Buff the handling and/or simply treat it like a medium in the MM, so it gets paired up with mediums and non VKs ect.

I am pretty sure they have thought of something like this already but have not implemented it because: a) I am making a mistake they have seen b) because it is not profitable enough for them.

I think they want to find a way to sell the old premiums to new players and because we have Defenders&Co, the old premiums do not have the same appeal as they used to. So people dont buy them amd WG makes less $$$$ ect ect. So WG will find a dumb way to buff them.

Or paint them red.

 

Yeah, I still play the IS6 now and again. The only real difference is you have to spam gold all the time now just to compete, so it makes far less credits...well it makes far less for me. I like the idea of treating the FCM as a med in MM. I like the FCM, but can struggle in it badly at times depending on team make up/map.

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The FCM is stuck in a very wierd position in relation to it's counterparts, both in terms of techtree and premium tanks. It doesn't fit WG`s new stance of "must have T8 premium that handles like the same tier techtree vehicle". You got a fast and meh-ly armored heavy with a medium alpha gun, decent penetration and decent enough gun-stats (handling not so much, but it ain't horrible). The only vehicle this vaguely corresponds to on the french tree, is the AMX M4 45. To be honest, I'd actually expect them to just drop it a tier and call it a day, if it wouldn't completely outperform the M4 45 in that case, though that is down both to how shit the M4 45 is, as well as T7s being in an increasingly stupid position in regard to T8+ vehicles. They really need to stop dragging their feet in regard to balanceing vehicles that are not T8+...

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Wow this is interesting!

 

"

Premium Ammunition

  • Wargaming will remove the gold price for gold rounds after Update 1.0 and make it where only silver/credit price is left.
  • Anton Pankov corrected the initial statement where it was said it would be in Update 1.0, by saying this was an error and the gold price removal would happen in the update after 1.0.
  • Premium ammunition is a very complex problem to fix, because some rare people on all regions still buy Premium Ammo for Gold, so they can’t directly nerf them right now because it’s prohibited by law in some countries. So, Wargaming will let everyone keep those rounds, but remove the gold price. Wargaming will wait until people shoot out all the rounds they bought for gold, which will probably be within a week, depending on how often someone shoots gold. Then they will do rebalances with them. Wargaming said, “Wait for Sandbox, we will have changes for gold rounds there.” There are a few ways of rebalancing gold ammunition:"

https://thedailybounce.net/2018/02/24/developers-qa-ranked-battles-matchmaking-game-vehicle-changes-premium-ammunition/

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1 minute ago, zbran said:

Wargaming will remove the gold price for gold rounds after Update 1.0 and make it where only silver/credit price is left.

I don't think that is huge. I'm pretty sure that most people that are running mods uses the one that changes the default from gold to credits AND they probably have a ton of tickets from where people accidentally drain their gold from having the default incorrectly set.

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1 minute ago, Fenxis said:

I don't think that is huge. I'm pretty sure that most people that are running mods uses the one that changes the default from gold to credits AND they probably have a ton of tickets from where people accidentally drain their gold from having the default incorrectly set.

I found the other bits interesting tbf..

 

" Premium ammunition is a very complex problem to fix, because some rare people on all regions still buy Premium Ammo for Gold, so they can’t directly nerf them right now because it’s prohibited by law in some countries. So, Wargaming will let everyone keep those rounds, but remove the gold price. Wargaming will wait until people shoot out all the rounds they bought for gold, which will probably be within a week, depending on how often someone shoots gold. Then they will do rebalances with them. "

 

I might be reading into this the wrong way, but could this be a potential damage nerf to gold rounds? I think that would be a fantastic decision.

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25 minutes ago, zbran said:

I might be reading into this the wrong way, but could this be a potential damage nerf to gold rounds? I think that would be a fantastic decision.

I think we all want nerfs to gold rounds in some way but it's tough to come up with something that is fair when you are tier - 2 you are deep trouble due to the way DPM and HPs scale. Nerfing damage probably should be accompanied by overmatch (see: WoWs) or scaled (less damage unless you are shooting at higher tiers).

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It's WG. Either they'll make them horribly OP or make then horribly UP. i for one have no hope with an incompetent entity known as WG.

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32 minutes ago, Haswell said:

What about more expensive ammo that has less RNG in pen and damage? :doge:

 

More expensive?? Minsk likes very much!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SerB.png

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They could do a number of different things, and WG themselves have acknowledged this. Still, here's my take on the situation: One option is simply to let limited MM tanks stay that way and compensate them with bigger multipliers to credit earnings and crew training. Plus basic quality of life buffs (terrain resistance, movement dispersion, view range, pen, etc) when absolutely necessary. So long as WG stops selling these tanks ( :serb: ) then eventually they'll be only a very tiny portion of the queue at any given moment.

Option two is to rebalance them for +/-2 MM, which may be much more drastic. But for example, imagine the E25 with full +/-2 MM and only one thing changed- its APCR buffed to 244 pen like the Panther. That alone may be enough. Or in some cases like the KV-5, down-tiering to tier 7, losing a couple hundred hit points, but maintaining the current credit earning multipliers.

Option three is VOLUNTARY replacement and/or gold payout. For example, WG offering to swap the KannonenJagdPanzer for the KJP 105. But the moment that these methods become forced is when the deal turns very sour. If for whatever reason someone wants to keep a crappy premium, WG has no reason to force them to get rid of it.

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I can only speak to tanks that I actually own and have played.

If they gave the KV-5 the same pen as the KV-4's gun, the E-25 the same pen as the Panther and the JT88 the same pen as the Panther II that would pretty much solve most of the problems right there and then they'd work fine with standard MM. The E-25 could still stand to have a size/camo nerf and still be fine.

The KV-5 would have to deal with some massive armor creep [lol 180mm turret face], but that combo of pen, DPM and raw HP pool would still make it formidable.

Likewise if the 112, WZ-111 and T-34-3 were given something functionally equivalent to the IS-5 gun that would be fabulous.

The AT-15A would work perfectly fine in standard MM, even with the 17lber, if it had the same HP pool as the AT-7 and a DPM buff.

A45 just... idk, thats a hard one to actually make good with standard MM. Make APCR standard?

 

SuperPershing can be converted into something functionally near-identical to the T26E5.

The only one that would be really tricky is the FCM 50t. A good place to start would to massively buff the ammo rack health.

 

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52 minutes ago, Tupinambis said:

I can only speak to tanks that I actually own and have played.

If they gave the KV-5 the same pen as the KV-4's gun, the E-25 the same pen as the Panther and the JT88 the same pen as the Panther II that would pretty much solve most of the problems right there and then they'd work fine with standard MM. The E-25 could still stand to have a size/camo nerf and still be fine.

The KV-5 would have to deal with some massive armor creep [lol 180mm turret face], but that combo of pen, DPM and raw HP pool would still make it formidable.

Likewise if the 112, WZ-111 and T-34-3 were given something functionally equivalent to the IS-5 gun that would be fabulous.

The AT-15A would work perfectly fine in standard MM, even with the 17lber, if it had the same HP pool as the AT-7 and a DPM buff.

A45 just... idk, thats a hard one to actually make good with standard MM. Make APCR standard?

 

SuperPershing can be converted into something functionally near-identical to the T26E5.

The only one that would be really tricky is the FCM 50t. A good place to start would to massively buff the ammo rack health.

 

I would not personally be inclined to accept +2 until they fix Tier 8 MM.

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48 minutes ago, lavawing said:

I would not personally be inclined to accept +2 until they fix Tier 8 MM.

Would the tier 8 MM get better if pref-MM didn't exist anymore?

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4 minutes ago, Tupinambis said:

Would the tier 8 MM get better if pref-MM didn't exist anymore?

Not really, main problem is 3 5 7 prioritisation. Even prefs get a lot fewer top tier games than before.

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Yeah, a lot of the money WG has extracted from me has gone into tier 8 premium tanks - then they turn around and make tier 8 damned near unplayable because the jump in ability from the seven tier 8 tanks to the eight tier 9-10 tanks is exponential.  Every time they put some new tier 8 prem on sale I just laugh - no way in hell I'm spending money to get shit on while bottom tier for 80% of games.  Tier 8 is bad enough without having to pay to get rekt.

The problem with the KV-5 and IS-6 isnt them - its all the new/buffed tanks they cannot pen.  I now carry 8 HE in my IS-6 . . . 8.  The VK1001, Liberte, Defender, O Ho, etc. plus all of the tier 9s, just laugh at IS-6 APCR.  

Give them both the chinese HEAT round from the WZ-111 and the problem would be solved.  Nobody is claimung the WZ is OP even with pref MM

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2 hours ago, Tupinambis said:

Likewise if the 112, WZ-111 and T-34-3 were given something functionally equivalent to the IS-5 gun that would be fabulous.

That would be something shit like 200 pen AP. Fuck that. I'd prefer to keep the 175 pen AP and see the stupid tier 8 and 9 tanks still in the game. 

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I think they will do something like this:

1. Annuance a buff for them combined with standardized MM. Those changes will look nice on paper with some big precentages. "KV5 radioman health increased by 200%" They won't make them on pair with the new age prems.

2. Ok, here are the changes for the prefmm prems coming next patch. You have 2 weeks to decide if you want compensation or you want to keep the tank. 

Their aim is to make them standard mm tanks without refunding too many people, and without making the tanks actually good. That way the people who kept the tank will have to buy a new prem. 

I also think they will make one tank very good/OP so they can point on that tank, when people calling this a fraud. For some reason I think that will be a russian tank.:serb: Probably the KV5, since there are still too many IS6s.

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I think they have been really clear that they want to remove pref. MM. Note I said "want" not "will". I think it will be done the same way SuperPershing was changed: they will adjust these tanks to normal MM and offer anyone who isnt happy either a full gold refund or a replacement equal tier premium. I understand their perspective here - any special MM rules add complexity to the MM system. However considering their past service record I fully expect them to fuck this up royally.

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On the premium ammo thing, any changes to premium ammo in the current meta are a massive buff to heavy tanks that are already dominating the game. If they reduce premium ammo damage per shot, you are basically giving every overbuffed abomination heavy tank and armoured TD +20% hit points. 

Plus you make a -2 tank's life even worse, as if playing a tier 8 med in a tier 10 game is not bad enough, you would now be doing like sub 200 damage per shot, great fun.

IMO you cannot propose any changes to premium ammo until the over buffed armour is nerfed and the maps are improved.  

As for the limited MM tanks, saw someone else say this and I 100% agree, I won't want regualr MM tier 8s, I have enough of those (and tier 8 MM sucks) I bought pre-MM tanks because of the pref-MM and I also do not need anymore gold, I don't want gold.

So they better offer me full cash refunds for these tanks otherwise I am kicking up a fuss. 

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