ZXrage

Supertest: K-91 (Tier X after Obj. 430 II)

44 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, tajj7 said:

Certainly could do. 

Accuracy needs to be stretched anyway, I'd like to see tanks down to like 0.15 accuracy, considering how little practical difference there is between 0.3 and 0.4 and like 80% of the tanks in the game fit in that bracket. 

Would like to see similar done to the Leo, basically the K-91 and the Leo should be the super accurate mobile snipers of tier 10, so Leo should also get pen buff, accuracy buff, velocity buff and maybe an alpha buff but trade off for lower DPM so something like -

  • 450 alpha
  • 278mm pen
  • 1700 m/s shell velocity
  • 0.24 accuracy.
  • 0.10/0.10/0.06 dispersion
  • DPM down to like 2.5k base

 

450 alpha would be problematic. 420 (memes) would do. 

 

I don't agree there is little difference between 0.3 and 0.4. The problem is the difference between 0.3 and 0.4 is around the same as acording to WG balancing and PR is between 0.35 and 0.4. They should double the acc spacing between tanks. 

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Accuracy is meaningless for two reasons:

1) There's barely a difference between 0.6 and 0.3 when fully aimed at maximum view range.

2) Shot dispersion within the reticle makes a 0.6 and a 0.3 gun equally likely to hit exactly where you aim and almost equally likely to hit close to where you aim.

Accuracy only serves as a modifier for the true accuracy-stats, which are the dispersion values.

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On 5/29/2018 at 5:59 PM, Madner Kami said:

Accuracy is meaningless for two reasons:

1) There's barely a difference between 0.6 and 0.3 when fully aimed at maximum view range.

2) Shot dispersion within the reticle makes a 0.6 and a 0.3 gun equally likely to hit exactly where you aim and almost equally likely to hit close to where you aim.

Accuracy only serves as a modifier for the true accuracy-stats, which are the dispersion values.

While accuracy matters too little you are grossly overexaggerating. 0.4+ won't hit weakspots above 150m reliably. 0.3 will hit most of the time even at 250+ The problem isn't a difference between a Leo and a t-100. The problem is the difference between the Leo and STB-1. 

 

Also sorry but that's not how statistics work. Shot distribution is the same among a bigger area. Also "true accuracy stats" are still governed by shot distribution. It's not like 90% of shots go center only on fully aimed shots. 

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There is a difference, just not enough of a difference because a large proportion of shots will go centre-mass anyway regardless of the dispersion circle.

Also 0.6 is obviously 60cm at 100m, 0.3 is 30cm, doubling out at every 100m interval so even at 400m your 0.3 gun, the aim circle is massive and can have variations of 1.2m from the centre of your aim, which is easily enough to miss the whole target with an 'accurate' gun.

Plus like 5% will go outside that aim circle. 

Which is why 'accurate' guns need to come right down so that their aim circles at 400m or 500m are not in metres. 

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but only to the side. Because when you turn your turret to the side, the breech wont hit the turret roof. :serb:

But it got buffed quite a bit. Maybe it plays less awkward now. 

К-91

  • Changed the turret traverse angle from 180° to 220° (from 90° to 110° on each side)
  • Changed the depression angle of the 100 mm D-46T gun (on vehicle sides) from -5 to -9 degrees
  • Changed reload time from 6.5 to 6.3 s
  • Increased the engine power to 860 h.p.

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So power to weight up to about 19 or something so will actually be mobile.

430v2 got its armor nerf to bring it in line. Anyone seen the armor model?

As an aside not sure why they allowed the guard to have 360 degree turret while the tree tanks can't. I thought it was a theoretical constraint of the lower chassis. I guess prem tanks and constraints don't mix.

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5 hours ago, Ezz said:

So power to weight up to about 19 or something so will actually be mobile.

430v2 got its armor nerf to bring it in line. Anyone seen the armor model?

As an aside not sure why they allowed the guard to have 360 degree turret while the tree tanks can't. I thought it was a theoretical constraint of the lower chassis. I guess prem tanks and constraints don't mix.

180 on the turret face, 80 on the front of the hull, 60 on the hull sides. The armour has been completely trashed, as in worse than WZ 120 levels. Plus the accuracy isn't even as good as the T-54 with the snipy gun. The tank is basically useless now.

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13 minutes ago, lavawing said:

180 on the turret face, 80 on the front of the hull, 60 on the hull sides. The armour has been completely trashed, as in worse than WZ 120 levels. Plus the accuracy isn't even as good as the T-54 with the snipy gun. The tank is basically useless now.

Ouch... oh well, a little while to grind the rest of the XP at least. Not that the K9 looks particularly interesting either.

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57 minutes ago, Ezz said:

Ouch... oh well, a little while to grind the rest of the XP at least. Not that the K9 looks particularly interesting either.

I played one game on test and got two MoE immediately. I have like 75% on live. That's how bad they made it to be.

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Yeh the 430 2 is wrecked, it lost most of it's effective armour (might bounce the odd tier 7 and 8), to gain a little bit more accuracy, DPM and 240 standard pen.

I am going to grind out as much as I can on the current 430v2.

The K-91 is much better now, the hp/ton is nearly 19, so you feel more like the other Russian meds and you can zip about. 

The gun depression is not useful because of the limited turret, ideally you'd want to poke backwards over a ridge like a Bat Chat or Waffle IV but you can't so you have to sit side on, but it makes it a little less awkward i suppose, as does the turret traverse range for poking corners etc.  

And I think it now has the highest DPM of any med or heavy in the game, I got the reload to 5s base just with rammer, BIA and food. I'd imagine with improved rammer, improved vents in there you'd be able to hit like maybe 4.7s.

Definitely want to pick one up now considering it has the highest pen, shell velocity and DPM of any medium tank and possibly the highest camo of any medium as well, you can get to around 37 - 38% stationary camo I think.  

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430v2 change is another implementation of WG's newfound philosophy to have all tanks in a line play as similarly to each other as possible, and the nerf is to pull the 430v2 back in line with the 416 and the K91 that are both high-DPM trash-armor snipers.

alternatively they could've made an armored t10 medium instead of the K91 and retain 430v2 as it is without being incongruent with their design philosophy, but considering the already-huge number of armored RU meds, it seems they're looking for more variety with the K91 even if it ends up being not as good

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On 6/1/2018 at 11:42 AM, Fulvin said:

430v2 change is another implementation of WG's newfound philosophy to have all tanks in a line play as similarly to each other as possible, and the nerf is to pull the 430v2 back in line with the 416 and the K91 that are both high-DPM trash-armor snipers.

alternatively they could've made an armored t10 medium instead of the K91 and retain 430v2 as it is without being incongruent with their design philosophy, but considering the already-huge number of armored RU meds, it seems they're looking for more variety with the K91 even if it ends up being not as good

I'm fine with them making the 430v2 more like the 416 and K-91. I mean I'm not sure it's necessary, but I get considering how stupid the plaerbase is that having the same style of play for the 8 to 10 should in theory help players not totally suck at tier 10.

However, the 'new' 430 v2 sucks at that role, the 416 and K-91 have high camo, mobility, DPM for their tiers and the K-91 has high pen, velocity and accuracy compared to most other tier 10 meds.

The v2 has none of this, it's 'new' gun is nothing special on tier 9, the T-54's low DPM gun is more accurate, and 246 AP pen is not that high and the shell velocity is no APCR levels. 

PTA, Standard B and Cent 7/1 are far better snipers, plus are more well rounded tanks that don't have awkward turrets. 

The DPM boost is nothing the Patton or 30 proto have either.

Mobility wasn't even buffed even though the armour is less. 

You now have this rear turreted tank, with limited turret range and -4 gun depression that will struggle to bounce tier 8s, and it gets very little for it. 

The K-91 for it's awkward turret and lack of armour, got gun depression, more DPM, pen and shell velocity than the other rasha meds. The 430 v2 seems no better than the other tier 9 meds in gun terms really but is obviously way worse in armour and has the awkward turret

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Um, can anyone who got this tank, please make a drag race with a BatChat? How far apart is their mobility in gaming reality, outside of the obvious hp/t and top speed differences?

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Okay someone please put up a comparison and a short review for k-91 and 277 also, I have 200k free xp and want to buy one of them but I can't decide which one. Thanks!

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44 minutes ago, Madner Kami said:

Um, can anyone who got this tank, please make a drag race with a BatChat? How far apart is their mobility in gaming reality, outside of the obvious hp/t and top speed differences?

It's about as fast as the other Soviet meds, except the 430U. Not going to win races.

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Ehm so can anyone remind me why the Leo still has 0.17 dispersion on hull and traverse while this thing has 0.13? Weren't they afraid of creating a OP sniper in this case?

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52 minutes ago, nabucodonsor said:

Ehm so can anyone remind me why the Leo still has 0.17 dispersion on hull and traverse while this thing has 0.13? Weren't they afraid of creating a OP sniper in this case?

 

Is russian, da? Not OP. Historically accurate! Nastrovje.

Seriously though, I am currently operating under the impression, that the russians as a whole are suffering from some sort of national inferiority complex, thanks to the setbacks they suffered through various historical events, liek wars and civil wars and failing leadership and are just overcompensating it collectively, which finds it's expression in stuff like this. One would think that comfortable gun-handling is a sort of NATO-tank thing in general, given how much NATO-nations tend to have an eye on creature comfort in their tanks, as opposed to the sardine cans the russians tend to build en masse, but hey. Why shouldn't the tanks that are generally designed to be more mobile in even the roughest infrastructure-lacking terrains and, who on top of that, are designed to not cost a lot and be easy to maintain at the cost of creature comfort, not also be the tanks that have the best armor and gun handling? Makes perfect sense, that sniper-oriented tanks, who are generally less mobile, larger and designed to be hulldowners as opposed to brawlers, get ifnerior gun handling, because the crew can actually move in the fucking tank, I suppose. Let them aim every shot even at 50m for half an hour and then give the L7, which is used by so many NATO-meds in the game, also the tendency to drop it's shells everywhere except center reticle for good measure (hello Charioteer). *rants*

 

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