Assassin7

Elimination: Tier 9 - 2018

247 posts in this topic

8 hours ago, Hellsfog said:

That's true about arty but in the context of this tank, I'm not sure what he means.

That's true for fv4005/waffle autoloader/fv215 183 - they are bad for the game without being good for wining. 

This is the same. You have a tank I can't pen with a t8 light tank unless I hit it in the back. It's almost impossible to pen for me frontally or in the side. It's easier to pen the side of a mauschen than this. A heavy tank that basically can't be circled if the player is semi competent. Also it can make retarded plays where there are no high caliber guns in the game.  The weakest part of the side armor when you are shorter than 257 is 190-200, if you are the same height it's 180-190. Autoaim aims at the 240+ armor or autobounce. Try to deal with that in a light while circling.

7 hours ago, Hellsfog said:

I don't agree that the gimmick makes the 257 broken in the same way that arty or ultra-high alpha td's are broken but I see what you are saying. It's hardly the only tank with armor that is strong to lower tiers but weak to same or higher.  

But other t9 tanks CAN be penned if you get a 90deg angle shot. Type4, Mauschen and other t9 heavily armored tanks can easily be penned by 180-220 pen. This can't reliably be penned by 136mm or lower caliber guns, then there is a slight part of 220-240 armor and a slight part of 180-190 under perfect angle. 

Compare that to Mauschen -  A HUGE part of the side i 155m under perfect angle. ST-I ? 140-155. Type4? Same. Even the 705 with that bullshit pretending not to be angled side armor is 180 max and most is 140.

T-10: 32
Conqueror: 29
T-54: 29
E75: 27
AMX 30: 25 
WZ-111 1-4: 25
AMX M4 51: 24
Type 4 Heavy: 20
T95: 23
Object 430: 25 
T49: 22
E50: 22
Skoda T50:  22
Standard B: 22
STRV 103-0: 21

Tortoise: 18+1=19 = Play it after buff. Not gold proof but still can bounce a lot of it so now it can finally expose itself long enough to use its dpm. I hate slow tanks but I won't pretend like this doesn't work. If you are happy with 63-65% wr this is a decent TD
Object 263: 21 
WT Auf Pz. IV: 20
Object 704: 20
Mauschen: 20
T30:  21
50TP: 20
M46 Patton: 20

Centurion 7/1: 20
Jagdtiger: 19
B-C 25t AP: 18
Leopard PTA: 17
AMX 13 90: 17
Object 257: 17

WZ-132A: 11 - 3 = 8 If this lives longer than t54lw I'm going to think wotlabs community has brain problems. 
Object 705: 11   
ST-I: 14
WZ-120: 14
T-54 LW: 8
Type 61: 8
WZ-111G FT: 6
Foch: 5 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

T-10: 32
Conqueror: 29 + 1 = 30 It feel more like a tier X than my Kranvagn.  Its probably close to being equal to the E5 right now
T-54: 29
E75: 27
AMX 30: 25 
WZ-111 1-4: 25
AMX M4 51: 24
Type 4 Heavy: 20
T95: 23
Object 430: 25 
T49: 22
E50: 22
Skoda T50:  22
Standard B: 22
STRV 103-0: 21

Tortoise: 19
Object 263: 21 
WT Auf Pz. IV: 20
Object 704: 20
Mauschen: 20
T30:  21
50TP: 20
M46 Patton: 20

Centurion 7/1: 20
Jagdtiger: 19
B-C 25t AP: 18
Leopard PTA: 17
AMX 13 90: 17
Object 257: 11

WZ-132A:  8-3 = 5 Seriously, the 54 LtWt can literally rape this thing with impunity, it is better that the 132A in every meaningful way (mobility, armor, and firepower)
Object 705: 11   
ST-I: 14
WZ-120: 14
T-54 LW: 8
Type 61: 8
WZ-111G FT: 6
Foch: 5 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

T-10: 32
Conqueror: 30
T-54: 29
E75: 27
AMX 30: 25 
WZ-111 1-4: 25
AMX M4 51: 24
Type 4 Heavy: 20
T95: 23
Object 430: 25 
T49: 22-3=19: a good meme tank but nothing beyond that
E50: 22
Skoda T50:  22
Standard B: 22
STRV 103-0: 21
Tortoise: 19
Object 263: 21 
WT Auf Pz. IV: 20
Object 704: 20
Mauschen: 20
T30:  21
50TP: 20+1: blessed is the tank that trades.

I have been running this with the stock turret and it's been giving me 2.5-2.6k dpg consistently for the last 30 games without too much trouble (which actually is a lot for a scrub like myself). 560 alfa + 2500 DPM + low profile + good gun depression just makes this tank stupidly good in its intended role. The stock turret is tiny, which on a hull as low as the 50TP's makes the -8 gun dep behave like -10. The 13 ish second reload makes people ignore/forget about me, which they really shouldn't be doing. Also, poking corners is not as much a problem as Legga reported since you can just angle the hull 30 degrees and poke aggressively - half of the time people will whiff shots on the autobounce upper plate/ drive wheel because nobody wants to be deprived of 560 hit points without good reason.

I am not sure if this is better than an E 75, which should be better at everything, but it is at least extremely good at diarrhea-ing out damage, and attracts little attention in return for some reason. With full APCR spam, I think this might actually be better than a T30.

Feels much better than the Tier 8, 218/245 pen on an unarmoured platform is just sad.
Centurion 7/1: 20
Jagdtiger: 19
B-C 25t AP: 18
Leopard PTA: 17
AMX 13 90: 17
Object 257: 11
WZ-132A:  5
Object 705: 11   
ST-I: 14
WZ-120: 14
T-54 LW: 8
Type 61: 8
WZ-111G FT: 6
Foch: 5 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

T-10: 32
Conqueror: 30
T-54: 29+1=30 (I'm not sure if this isn't better than t10 on weekends with shit teams)
E75: 27
AMX 30: 25 
WZ-111 1-4: 25
AMX M4 51: 24
Type 4 Heavy: 20
T95: 23
Object 430: 25 
T49: 19
E50: 22
Skoda T50:  22
Standard B: 22
STRV 103-0: 21
Tortoise: 19
Object 263: 21 
WT Auf Pz. IV: 20
Object 704: 20
Mauschen: 20
T30:  21
50TP: 21: 
Centurion 7/1: 20
Jagdtiger: 19
B-C 25t AP: 18
Leopard PTA: 17
AMX 13 90: 17
Object 257: 11
WZ-132A:  5-3=2 (I will find a new victim when you die but you are clearly the worst tank here)
Object 705: 11   
ST-I: 14
WZ-120: 14
T-54 LW: 8
Type 61: 8
WZ-111G FT: 6
Foch: 5 

 

 

BTW. What's so bad with 705? Gun handling? I thought it was mediocre not super bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

T-10: 32
Conqueror: 30
T-54: 30 
E75: 27
AMX 30: 25 
WZ-111 1-4: 25
Object 430: 25
AMX M4 51: 24
T95: 23
E50: 22
Skoda T50:  22
Standard B: 22
STRV 103-0: 21
T30:  21
50TP: 21
Object 263: 21 
Type 4 Heavy: 20
WT Auf Pz. IV: 20
Object 704: 20
Mauschen: 20
Centurion 7/1: 20
Tortoise: 19
T49: 19
Jagdtiger: 19
B-C 25t AP: 18
Leopard PTA: 17
AMX 13 90: 17
ST-I: 14
WZ-120: 14
Object 257: 11
Object 705: 11   
T-54 LW: 8
Type 61: 8
WZ-111G FT: 6
Foch: 5 
WZ-132A:  2

Not a vote, just a clean up and restack

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

T-10: 32
Conqueror: 30
T-54: 30 
E75: 27
AMX 30: 25 +1 =26 I had forgotten how fun this tank is even post changes.  
WZ-111 1-4: 25
Object 430: 25
AMX M4 51: 24
T95: 23
E50: 22
Skoda T50:  22
Standard B: 22
STRV 103-0: 21
T30:  21
50TP: 21
Object 263: 21 
Type 4 Heavy: 20
WT Auf Pz. IV: 20
Object 704: 20
Mauschen: 20
Centurion 7/1: 20
Tortoise: 19
T49: 19
Jagdtiger: 19
B-C 25t AP: 18
Leopard PTA: 17
AMX 13 90: 17
ST-I: 14
WZ-120: 14
Object 257: 11
Object 705: 11   
T-54 LW: 8
Type 61: 8
WZ-111G FT: 6
Foch: 5 
WZ-132A:  2 - 3 = -1 A poor scout and a poorer medium...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

T-10: 32
Conqueror: 30
T-54: 30 
E75: 27
AMX 30: 26   
WZ-111 1-4: 25
Object 430: 25
AMX M4 51: 24
T95: 23
E50: 22
Skoda T50:  22
Standard B: 22
STRV 103-0: 21
T30:  21
50TP: 21
Object 263: 21 
Type 4 Heavy: 20
WT Auf Pz. IV: 20
Object 704: 20
Mauschen: 20
Centurion 7/1: 20
Tortoise: 19
T49: 19
Jagdtiger: 19
B-C 25t AP: 18
Leopard PTA: 17
AMX 13 90: 17
ST-I: 14
WZ-120: 14
Object 257: 11
Object 705: 11   
T-54 LW: 8
Type 61: 8
WZ-111G FT: 6

Edited, obviously not ready to be trimmed down yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Archaic_One said:

We could save a lot of time by just cutting it to the top 10+ ties like this:

T-10: 32
Conqueror: 30
T-54: 30 
E75: 27
AMX 30: 26
WZ-111 1-4: 25

Object 430: 25
AMX M4 51: 24
T95: 23
E50: 22
Skoda T50:  22
Standard B: 22

Is there really any argument for anything below these?  We've already picked out the worst tanks - why spend weeks bobbing through the middle with only a dozen active posters?  Just a thought, I can edit this if there is an outcry against bypassing all of the meh tanks in the middle from now till Christmas.

Type/T30 shd be on the list since they check all the boxes to be gud in this meta. I expect all the NATO/105mm meds to go before the heavies, and that this Elimination will probably end up as a 3 way between the 120mm heavies, T-54, and the two Soviet heaviums.

IMO so far as the heavies are concerned, a tier list would look like this

1: best in class generalists consisting of AMX 51/Conq and WZ-1-4/T-10

2: E 75, a strong generalist that always works but is let down by DPM

3: best in class specialists, i.e. Type 4 for corridor spam/50TP for trading/ST-I for being a bunker. These tanks are best in tier in a particular niche as well as having enough strengths for general purposes.

4: M103, a decent/workable generalist but also generally outclassed.

5: decent specialists: Mauschen/705/257/4502B. Great for one particular role and bad in all others. Notice many (all) of these are sidescrapers.

6: mediocre specialists: 50 120/EMIL II. Can only do one thing but not even that well, but because they can't do anything else are pretty much shoehorned into that role.

IMO there's not much point in voting further on which heavy is the best in the 1st bracket because it's pretty much personal preference at that point. If you prefer reliability you'd want the Conq, if you like aggressive plays the 51, etc, etc. For most intents and purposes they are pretty much the same (111/T-10, Conq/51, I mean).

That said, I'd expect the T-10 to come out on top out because of 340 pen HEAT and mobility compared to the 120mm tanks, and wotlabs in general overvalues mobility, and comfort compared to the 1-4, because wotlabs in general overvalues comfort.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, T-54 won. Every other tank is dead. This forum is dead since voting and discussion is pointless and someone's single opinion is worth more rest of users. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On mobile please add:

Time to draw a line in the sand between those who have the time and/or coin to feed the T-54’s serious credit habit and those who don’t. No wonder the U.S.S.R went broke. It’s irrelevant how good it is because I simply cannot afford to run it. I can at least break even or run at a small profit without a premium account with a bunch of the other tanks left on the list.

Standard B + 1: Crazy fast. Good gun. Kickin’ standard round pen. Clip shenanigans. Lack of armour and loading mechanic make it interesting to play.

Type 61 - 3: I don’t think I’ve ever felt threatened by one of these.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Hellsfog said:

Then you two had to come along and try cpr.

There's a fine line between cpr and necrophilia and I'm not sure which side this is on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.