lavawing

re: Arty Focus in Hulldown Tanks

26 posts in this topic

I was grinding the 53TP lately, and having prevailed over the prevailing part of its problems being being stock, now find myself facing another problem, one that doesn't go away with lots of grinding: arty.

It's a problem I've found and experienced to various degrees of keyboard-thrashing frustration in a number of other tanks I play, being all variants of the Caernarvon/Conqueror, all variants of the 1111111111, all variants of the AMX M4, the M103, and the E5. In short, my question is, how do you deal with arty focus in those vehicles, especially when you're top tier, contesting a key position?

I mean, my answer to triple arta on Malinovka is just fuck the game and camp behind my TDs when I feel like it and bum rush the hill when I don't. But I've found that in tanks like the 53TP and the 5A which rely heavily on taking hulldown positions quickly, if there's going to be one arty in the game, that arty is going to be focusing me, and the stun and the general fragility of the modules on hulldown heaviums means that I end up either dead before the mid game or a 1.5 shot cripple at best.

I tend to treat arty has a DoT, except there are no heals in the game......#feelsbadman

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27 minutes ago, lavawing said:

 

how do you deal with arty focus in those vehicles, especially when you're top tier, contesting a key position?

 

you dont lol

 

on a more serious note you can't do anything really if there are 6 enemy tanks hence you can't push, and arty will wreck your hp for -550 with each shot when you are in full tier 10 with 3 t10 arties which is pretty every t10 game now.

I have exactly the same problem but not much you can do about it, on more open maps you can try and relocate but then there are those where you can't hide that effectively e.g. malinovka hill or murovanka middle, like in an sconq you will get shit on eventually sooner or later.. yeah its irritating..

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I remember there used to be something called an arty dance, where you basically wiggle and WASD and pray you don't get direct hitted. Now it's mostly a matter of showing your front to where you think arty is and hoping they'l direct hit your gun or mantlet........

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With improved accuracy, splash and added stun it's better to pray that cancer is focused on other flank or don't click "battle" in garage.

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There was this article by Kewei long time ago about losing focus. This might help with arty too.

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2 hours ago, hazzgar said:

There was this article by Kewei long time ago about losing focus. This might help with arty too.

In a nutshell, make it hard enough for anything to shoot at you, they will eventually stop trying to shoot at you. Like moving a lot to make aiming difficult, staying unlit as long as often as possible, or just pushing harder to kill whatever is spotting you.

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you have 2 options, play to farm dmg, or play to win, if you wanna hold a crucial spot to help your team in exchange to get shit on by arty, you MIGHT win more, if you play more selfish, you are gonna farm more dmg but your WR will move between 55-62%

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taking that hill on Malinovka, you better have superior numbers on your side. Aside from maybe not getting arty focused, it's also important to use that numbers and firepower advantage to take that windmill as soon as possible and clear the hill. The longer the slugging continues, the more punishment arty can just send out with ease.

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40 minutes ago, ThomChen114 said:

taking that hill on Malinovka, you better have superior numbers on your side. Aside from maybe not getting arty focused, it's also important to use that numbers and firepower advantage to take that windmill as soon as possible and clear the hill. The longer the slugging continues, the more punishment arty can just send out with ease.

It's not numbers per se. It's also not having idiot teammates. I've went there with allies and had 1-2 tank advantage and still got killed because my allies did no damage or decided to sit behind and wait till I die pinned somewhere. 

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copy paste from an old reddit thread:

  • Arty focus doesn’t bother me anymore. You get so used to it that that becomes the normal state of the game to you. It honestly forced me into becoming a better player even if the way there was really, really frustrating. Playing passively has its perks, and predicting arty positions to in turn predict where they’ll have good shots and estimating the first spotted in the team (attracts focus) along with how much they want to shoot the purple guy. The game is 90% theory playing in your head and 10 of actual play to me, and dealing with arty has helped this even if arty is a really poor mechanic that lacks skill and counterplay.

  • I have no data on me so this is shooting from the hip but with 3 arties on either side I will just assume at least one of them is going to spend his entire game on me and more often than not I’ll be right. The difference is that the playstyle people want to have; an aggressive one, is different from the optimal one even when arty isn’t present or isn’t shooting at you. Players who use their brain see a favourable situation and commit to it with the information they have available. The information they don’t have is something most dismiss entirely, this separates better players from good ones as factoring in predictions into those situations makes your decision making more calculated, Using arty in this sense works too, it’s much harder but you should know from experience where arty sits (roughly) on that map/side and where they get free shots. If you’re there you need to take that 600 splash meme into account and if it’s still worth it, in general this takes a lot of aggressive plays that seem good out of being actually good plays. Playing smart and knowing how tempo (not game-flow) works in WoT and when to set the pace. When you get to that point that you can dictate tempo is when you really start solo-winning games. The next step is knowing how to do this without getting trashed by arty in the process. A lot of the super unicums don’t even know what this is, so think about how much potential there really is in improving.

  • The smart playstyle is not the aggressive one most of the time, so basically all the numbnuts take a shitload of arty shots for free. When XVM lets people see the best players they are going to focus them. Your best players are most likely to carry, so they’re your biggest win condition. In other games (MOBAs specifically) a legitimate win condition is to shut the star player down so he can’t carry. That’s what happens here already. The drawback from this strategy is that it takes a lot of resources to do so then other players get to play an easier game as a result. Same thing applies here too, if the arty spams on you and you alone you’ve drawn a lot of arty pressure off of other players so they’ll play better as a result. What sucks is that the pubbie that did 3k damage (a good game for him) in a game where I did 3k (a really shitty one for me) is that the result is likely that I drew more pressure so my team could play better and that looks worse on the service record. People want to be aggressive and do a lot of damage, arty effectively shuts that combo down so if you want a shiny service record then this is obviously not the answer to doing it.

The small concrete tips I can give though to simply getting shot less overall:

  • Expose in segments. If you stay lit on the map for long you’re more likely to get shots. Go dark and time it with the arty reloads and you simply won’t take as many shots. Segments meaning 10-15 seconds at a time.

  • Know reloads and pay attention to your surroundings to tell what the arty is doing. Predict these things if you don’t know for sure. Assumptions from sound logic is how I got good at the game, not from good aim or knowing weak spots/good general positions on the map.

  • Assume that they’re on you from the start. If this doesn’t change your playstyle to a safer one then IDK how to help you. It’s simply the game.

  • Don’t get spotted first if it’s a position you want to keep. You’ll always be the target.

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9 minutes ago, Kolni said:

copy paste from an old reddit thread:

  • Arty focus doesn’t bother me anymore. You get so used to it that that becomes the normal state of the game to you. It honestly forced me into becoming a better player even if the way there was really, really frustrating. Playing passively has its perks, and predicting arty positions to in turn predict where they’ll have good shots and estimating the first spotted in the team (attracts focus) along with how much they want to shoot the purple guy. The game is 90% theory playing in your head and 10 of actual play to me, and dealing with arty has helped this even if arty is a really poor mechanic that lacks skill and counterplay.

  • I have no data on me so this is shooting from the hip but with 3 arties on either side I will just assume at least one of them is going to spend his entire game on me and more often than not I’ll be right. The difference is that the playstyle people want to have; an aggressive one, is different from the optimal one even when arty isn’t present or isn’t shooting at you. Players who use their brain see a favourable situation and commit to it with the information they have available. The information they don’t have is something most dismiss entirely, this separates better players from good ones as factoring in predictions into those situations makes your decision making more calculated, Using arty in this sense works too, it’s much harder but you should know from experience where arty sits (roughly) on that map/side and where they get free shots. If you’re there you need to take that 600 splash meme into account and if it’s still worth it, in general this takes a lot of aggressive plays that seem good out of being actually good plays. Playing smart and knowing how tempo (not game-flow) works in WoT and when to set the pace. When you get to that point that you can dictate tempo is when you really start solo-winning games. The next step is knowing how to do this without getting trashed by arty in the process. A lot of the super unicums don’t even know what this is, so think about how much potential there really is in improving.

  • The smart playstyle is not the aggressive one most of the time, so basically all the numbnuts take a shitload of arty shots for free. When XVM lets people see the best players they are going to focus them. Your best players are most likely to carry, so they’re your biggest win condition. In other games (MOBAs specifically) a legitimate win condition is to shut the star player down so he can’t carry. That’s what happens here already. The drawback from this strategy is that it takes a lot of resources to do so then other players get to play an easier game as a result. Same thing applies here too, if the arty spams on you and you alone you’ve drawn a lot of arty pressure off of other players so they’ll play better as a result. What sucks is that the pubbie that did 3k damage (a good game for him) in a game where I did 3k (a really shitty one for me) is that the result is likely that I drew more pressure so my team could play better and that looks worse on the service record. People want to be aggressive and do a lot of damage, arty effectively shuts that combo down so if you want a shiny service record then this is obviously not the answer to doing it.

The small concrete tips I can give though to simply getting shot less overall:

  • Expose in segments. If you stay lit on the map for long you’re more likely to get shots. Go dark and time it with the arty reloads and you simply won’t take as many shots. Segments meaning 10-15 seconds at a time.

  • Know reloads and pay attention to your surroundings to tell what the arty is doing. Predict these things if you don’t know for sure. Assumptions from sound logic is how I got good at the game, not from good aim or knowing weak spots/good general positions on the map.

  • Assume that they’re on you from the start. If this doesn’t change your playstyle to a safer one then IDK how to help you. It’s simply the game.

  • Don’t get spotted first if it’s a position you want to keep. You’ll always be the target.

You are totally right. It still suck though as I really dislike to be hit by something even if I am behind some cover that hides me from any other enemies.  Also it is boring as fuck to play

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I haven't seen Kolni play but after reading "play passively" and "does anyone have a Wtf PzIV" I'm finding it hard not to picture the good old redline binocs/net camper :serb:

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This is in a nutshell why I'm playing less and less these days.  As the game has transitioned back to a lot of TDs and there seem to be 3 arty in most games my hyper-aggressiveness has become a real hindrance to winning.  Pretty much in every tank I play (meds and heaviums) I drive straight to where the damage is and get up front.  On Prok and Mali and many other open maps that I used to love, this means I'm the ONLY guy lit much of the time and we all know how good arty is at promoting dynamic play and preventing camping . . .

Its not artys fault, its mine - but I despise passive play, I suck at redlining, I have no patience for hiding my top tier tank in back until the end game.  I've tried, I just cannot make it work for me.  When there weren't 6 TDs in each game the wealth got spread out a lot more, but lately there are often only 5-6 'real' tanks per game and thats too few shoulders to carry cancer on.  

If I was as good as a lot of you guys, I'd probably be able to deal with it better, but I'm just a pubby that likes to brawl and I've kind of been left behind in this meta.

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7 hours ago, Haswell said:

In a nutshell, make it hard enough for anything to shoot at you, they will eventually stop trying to shoot at you. Like moving a lot to make aiming difficult, staying unlit as long as often as possible, or just pushing harder to kill whatever is spotting you.

If only that were the case.

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1 hour ago, Archaic_One said:

If I was as good as a lot of you guys, I'd probably be able to deal with it better, but I'm just a pubby that likes to brawl and I've kind of been left behind in this meta.

That’s how I feel too. My recent win rate is down 4% since patch 1.0.

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6 hours ago, Archaic_One said:

This is in a nutshell why I'm playing less and less these days.  As the game has transitioned back to a lot of TDs and there seem to be 3 arty in most games my hyper-aggressiveness has become a real hindrance to winning.  Pretty much in every tank I play (meds and heaviums) I drive straight to where the damage is and get up front.  On Prok and Mali and many other open maps that I used to love, this means I'm the ONLY guy lit much of the time and we all know how good arty is at promoting dynamic play and preventing camping . . .

Its not artys fault, its mine - but I despise passive play, I suck at redlining, I have no patience for hiding my top tier tank in back until the end game.  I've tried, I just cannot make it work for me.  When there weren't 6 TDs in each game the wealth got spread out a lot more, but lately there are often only 5-6 'real' tanks per game and thats too few shoulders to carry cancer on.  

If I was as good as a lot of you guys, I'd probably be able to deal with it better, but I'm just a pubby that likes to brawl and I've kind of been left behind in this meta.

This is more or less exactly how I play, I just want to hotrod my ridiculously fast heavy tank up the most forward spot possible so long as it isn't 100% suicidal, start rocking back and forth like an idiot to get gun depression, pumping shots into red tanks asap, and basically watching the results of my over-aggression ripple across the enemy team. Sadly most tanks aren't meant to be played like that and even when they are, arty doesn't let me more often than not: rip 500 DPGs less in my 5A than in the IS-7. feelsbad doesn't even begin to cover it.

What really positively pisses me off are the plays that would be game winning but for arty. It's alright in something like the IS-7 since it's got something like 10cms of side armour, a shit tonne of health, and is ignored by low calibre arta pretty much, but most other aggressive tanks simply have not the luxury. 

I bought a S-51 to complete the Excalibur missions (fuck those), and it's basically ridiculous how quickly artillery aims right now, even fixed traverse ones that have to deal with teeny gun arcs. I can even hit light tanks moving in their 50s semi reliably - which is just wank. It's probably safe to assume that if arty: (1) has a line of sight on you, (2) if your cover isn't more than one building thick, (3) if you are spotted first, you are going to get focused for at least the next 2 minutes.

Playing unpredictably does help with the arty focus, but then again they only take 4 seconds to swivel around and slam you for camping anyway these days.

PS arty is a support class: I routinely get my entire health pool depleted in my 53TP and IS-3 over the course of 1.5 minutes playing what otherwise would be perfect plays. Apparently Tier 6 arty is not only the best tier for tier but also the best for earning creds other than prem tanks.........nicely done, nicely done, WG.

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About the tier 6 arty.  I was tooning with @StormCrowReaperManyHats who was in the AMX 13 F3 the other day.

He said that it felt like he was hitting with about 90% of his shots, it was that accurate.

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1 hour ago, Hellvn said:

About the tier 6 arty.  I was tooning with @StormCrowReaperManyHats who was in the AMX 13 F3 the other day.

He said that it felt like he was hitting with about 90% of his shots, it was that accurate.

low tier arty overall is super cancer, anything tier 6 or below fires every 20 seconds, has good aimtimes (for arty), and almost never misses.

the M44 being one of the most broken ones due to its high dmg added with the above mentioned traits  

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Yet, people constantly whinge about the arty nerf. Fucking shitlords. Arty is anathemic to skill.

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6 hours ago, Deus__Ex__Machina said:

low tier arty overall is super cancer, anything tier 6 or below fires every 20 seconds, has good aimtimes (for arty), and almost never misses.

the M44 being one of the most broken ones due to its high dmg added with the above mentioned traits  

I'm not actually decided on this point, but so far I feel that Tier 6 arta versus Tier 8 heavies is better (as in worse) than Tier 8 arta versus Tier 10s. Not sure why it felt this way, except that tier 6s have vastly more RoF.

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Back before stun when the M44 had HEAT rounds, I did all of the HTC28 arty missions IN ONE NIGHT with an M44.  I kept it for a while after stun and it was still ridiculously OP at tier 6.  Its flat out better than the M12 in every way. 

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4 hours ago, Archaic_One said:

Back before stun when the M44 had HEAT rounds, I did all of the HTC28 arty missions IN ONE NIGHT with an M44.  I kept it for a while after stun and it was still ridiculously OP at tier 6.  Its flat out better than the M12 in every way. 

I wonder which arties are best i.e. worst for tier. For scientific purposes of course.

The French Tier 5 is extremely strong/annoying, the M44 you've already covered, for tier 7s, the GW Panther is cancer for anything not a superheavy, and the S51 with gold HE on the 203 is terminal melanoma on tracks. Tier 8.......not sure, seems to be a bit of a toss up, but the M40/43 seems to be very good even against high tiers (like my 5A). Tier 9 goes to the M53/55 without doubt, and the CGC should be the best Tier 10 arty due to arc/splash. 

PS arty is the sole reason I have not got battle buddy for the last 20K battles. A healthy dose of culling the friendly arty population goes a long way in recovering from tilt.

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