evacmybore

Panther II - Top Gun Comparo and Questions

140 posts in this topic

So I moved up to the Panther II, and have the everything unlocked, so this discussion is based on the Top Turret and Top Suspension. 

 

I'm seeing far more difficulty hitting with the 88mm L/71, vs. the 75mm L/100, more than the .34 accuracy vs. .32 accuracy would suggest.  These are fully shrunken reticle shots, so Aim Time is not a factor.

 

 

If the Track and Turret Dispersion are the same, what other soft stats are involved?

 

Dispersion of the gun, other than the .34 accuracy factor?

 

Speed of the Round?

 

???

 

Is there an object in a map somewhere we can use to fire groups, gun vs gun, and get a pattern?

 

 

 

Thanks....

 

 

 

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The 88 has a higher shell velocity than the super long 75 IIRC

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Thanks,  I respect that now. 

 

That said, are there any other soft stats per the gun?  The % of flyer (outside of the center of reticle impact % norms) shots seems to be higher, and the shots don't seem to be as flat with the 88mm L/71.

 

 

 

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I do remember the 88 having funky dispersion way back, but you shouldn't have any problem with it after 8.6.

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Hey Gang -

Anyone playing the Panther II these days? I just bought it and thought I would bump this discussion.

Which gun do you prefer? The 7.5cm L/100 with the awesome gold round (244 pen) or the 8.8cm L/71 with better alpha.

I found the Long 88 to be entirely useable on the Tiger II until I got the big 10.5cm. And the L/100 is a great gun on the Panther, but I haven't used against tier X. Does it hold up?

Thanks!
-j.

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Just repurchased the Panther II last week and completely in love with it. Run with the 88, there's no reason to spam APCR on this tank especially when the AP round is over 200mm of pen.

I've had a few incredible games, the gun is really nice and paired with the gun depression it's easy to mow tanks down.

However, I haven't been placed against Tier 10s yet. I would assume just avoid them or take side shots whenever possible.

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Just repurchased the Panther II last week and completely in love with it. Run with the 88, there's no reason to spam APCR on this tank especially when the AP round is over 200mm of pen.

I've had a few incredible games, the gun is really nice and paired with the gun depression it's easy to mow tanks down.

However, I haven't been placed against Tier 10s yet. I would assume just avoid them or take side shots whenever possible.

I do like the long 88 from the Tiger II - it was very useable against 10s.

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I do like the long 88 from the Tiger II - it was very useable against 10s.

That and the 75 seriously lacks damage on a tier 8 platform. With such low damage you'll need to expose yourself for a much longer time than the 88 to get the same amount of damage putting yourself in danger of taking rounds to the turret.

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I do remember the 88 having funky dispersion way back, but you shouldn't have any problem with it after 8.6.

 

Before the dispersion change i found it to be very reliable on the Panther II, not so much on other tanks that could use it (Tiger and JP back then)

 

Just repurchased the Panther II last week and completely in love with it. Run with the 88, there's no reason to spam APCR on this tank especially when the AP round is over 200mm of pen.

 

Panther II best t8 med.

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Panther II best t8 med.

 

^^^^^^^^^ Just got the panther II t/n, all I have to say is fucking hell, this thing is the bomb. Only fought 8 & 9s, no tier X games yet. Maybe I'm just in love because it's my first tier 8 med.

 

I'm running the Long 88, but I have to use enhanced suspension to do it until I earn enough for the Panther II suspension.

 

Rammer and binocs for the other slots - I'll change to optics and v-stab once I get the suspension.

 

Thanks for the advice gang.

 

Cheers

-j.

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I pulled mine out and dusted it off a bit recently; I'm glad I kept it around with a good crew in it.

 

It differs from what it was before in varying degrees based mostly on the terrain/slope you're on and your speed.   Different, but not bad - those with a lot of games on it will probably step on the gas and be like "wtf is this crap", then chill out when they start shooting things.    

 

All the tier 6-8 Panther-ish tanks are now a weird combination of high hitpoints, low accel, high top speed, depression, and (relatively) high ROF.   The Panther II is more of a heavy compared to the Indien Panzer (which I also enjoyed, and which is like a really oversized gray American style medium).

 

If you played through the Panther you'll probably have already learned about side exposure and ammo racks.

 

 

Odd thing to note; not sure if it's still this way, but at one point I'm pretty sure the L/100 had a higher rate of fire with the stock turret.  88 was always the only gun for me on it, though, given the "special" camo rating it has.

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I just got the Panther II a while back. I struggled badly with the Panther, despite my fairly decent sniping ability, the long 75MM just didn't do enough damage fast enough. The Panther II is another story. I've had a few games with over 3K damage in the Panther II, in the relatively few games I've played it. I would not, however, call the Panther II the best tier VIII medium, I don't like it near as much as my Pershing, and I can't carry nearly as well with it.

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I have played many tier 8 tanks and personally I think the Panther II is one of the worst tier 8 tanks in the game. The damage output of the Panther II is pitiful. Most shots bounce or never even hit the target and when they do hit you are luck if it does more then 200 damage. The aim time and rate of fire is terrible. It has the camo value of a Maus so that mean sniping is not an option, when you fire you are spotted, once spotted it takes about 2-3 hit and then you are dead.

 

Also when driving uphill it is not much fun to be overtaken by an IS-8 or when you are on a hill you cannot shoot anything since the gun cannot aim up or down.

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I have played many tier 8 tanks and personally I think the Panther II is one of the worst tier 8 tanks in the game. The damage output of the Panther II is pitiful. Most shots bounce or never even hit the target and when they do hit you are luck if it does more then 200 damage. The aim time and rate of fire is terrible. It has the camo value of a Maus so that mean sniping is not an option, when you fire you are spotted, once spotted it takes about 2-3 hit and then you are dead.

 

Also when driving uphill it is not much fun to be overtaken by an IS-8 or when you are on a hill you cannot shoot anything since the gun cannot aim up or down.

That's interesting.

 

My tank sample size isn't big, but I have over 300 in the Panther II.  If the other T8 meds are that much better, I have to get one!  The Panther II hits ALL the time, and has a pretty good pen for the Tier.  Not 20 Pd. pen, but pretty good.

 

All I do is snipe.  And do it well.

 

This thing in TB works for me, I wipe IS-3's off the map with it.  I'll spend much of the game never spotted, hammering people at 400+ meters.

 

Don't race an IS-8 to the front, don't get spotted, and you won't get hit...

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That's interesting.

 

My tank sample size isn't big, but I have over 300 in the Panther II.  If the other T8 meds are that much better, I have to get one!  The Panther II hits ALL the time, and has a pretty good pen for the Tier.  Not 20 Pd. pen, but pretty good.

 

All I do is snipe.  And do it well.

 

This thing in TB works for me, I wipe IS-3's off the map with it.  I'll spend much of the game never spotted, hammering people at 400+ meters.

 

Don't race an IS-8 to the front, don't get spotted, and you won't get hit...

 

 

Well PERSONLLY, please please please do not consider this a attack on you, I hate absolutely hate it when people snipe in medium tanks. I know it is not rational. If you want to snipe get a TD, not a medium.

In most battles I die in the first 3 minutes.

 

Panther II Germany MT 8 1983 49.52%

T-44 U.S.S.R. MT 8 211 53.08%

Centurion Mk. I UK MT 8 215 54.42%

AMX 13 90 France LT 8 386 53.89%

M26 Pershing USA MT 8 368 45.92%

 

Not sure but I doubt my average damage in the Panther II is over 800.

 

I sold the T-44, it is too much of an easy mode tank.

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Well PERSONLLY, please please please do not consider this a attack on you, I hate absolutely hate it when people snipe in medium tanks. I know it is not rational. If you want to snipe get a TD, not a medium.

In most battles I die in the first 3 minutes.

 

Panther II Germany MT 8 1983 49.52%

T-44 U.S.S.R. MT 8 211 53.08%

Centurion Mk. I UK MT 8 215 54.42%

AMX 13 90 France LT 8 386 53.89%

M26 Pershing USA MT 8 368 45.92%

 

Not sure but I doubt my average damage in the Panther II is over 800.

 

I sold the T-44, it is too much of an easy mode tank.

 

This actually explains quite a bit.

 

Seriously, stop dying so damn fast.

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Well PERSONLLY, please please please do not consider this a attack on you, I hate absolutely hate it when people snipe in medium tanks. I know it is not rational. If you want to snipe get a TD, not a medium.

In most battles I die in the first 3 minutes.

 

Panther II Germany MT 8 1983 49.52%

T-44 U.S.S.R. MT 8 211 53.08%

Centurion Mk. I UK MT 8 215 54.42%

AMX 13 90 France LT 8 386 53.89%

M26 Pershing USA MT 8 368 45.92%

 

Not sure but I doubt my average damage in the Panther II is over 800.

 

I sold the T-44, it is too much of an easy mode tank.

im sorry, but thats what the tank is for

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This actually explains quite a bit.

 

Seriously, stop dying so damn fast.

 

The main reason I tend to die fast is because I like to attack. When I see half the team forest camping at Malinkovka, 1-2 line camping at Prohorovka (I have seen this a couple of time now that 8-10 tank camp in the upper left lower left corner of the map, that only 1 or 2 tanks cross the rail rao), hill camping at Red shire etc I just give up and suicide, I have no patients with campers.

 

Also I never use gold/premium ammo in any of my tanks.

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Well PERSONLLY, please please please do not consider this a attack on you, I hate absolutely hate it when people snipe in medium tanks. I know it is not rational. If you want to snipe get a TD, not a medium.

In most battles I die in the first 3 minutes.

 

Panther II Germany MT 8 1983 49.52%

T-44 U.S.S.R. MT 8 211 53.08%

Centurion Mk. I UK MT 8 215 54.42%

AMX 13 90 France LT 8 386 53.89%

M26 Pershing USA MT 8 368 45.92%

 

Not sure but I doubt my average damage in the Panther II is over 800.

 

I sold the T-44, it is too much of an easy mode tank.

 

 

The main reason I tend to die fast is because I like to attack. When I see half the team forest camping at Malinkovka, 1-2 line camping at Prohorovka (I have seen this a couple of time now that 8-10 tank camp in the upper left lower left corner of the map, that only 1 or 2 tanks cross the rail rao), hill camping at Red shire etc I just give up and suicide, I have no patients with campers.

 

Also I never use gold/premium ammo in any of my tanks.

 

I'm sorry, but how are you contributing to this discussion in any meaningful way? 

 

Your behavior and attitude towards this game and your teammates is not something of which to be proud and while your type of attitude might be common on the official forums, it is very much in the minority here. 

 

Here we spend hours finding every possible way to maximize our and our tank's contribution to every single match we play. 

 

Here we are proud of each and every victory we snatch from the jaws of defeat against tremendous odds despite our teammates best efforts to lose the game. 

 

Here we agonize over our losses and mistakes and try our utmost to never fail the same way again. 

 

Here we play to win. 

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This actually explains quite a bit.

 

Seriously, stop dying so damn fast.

 

The main reason I tend to die fast is because I like to attack. When I see half the team forest camping at Malinkovka, 1-2 line camping at Prohorovka (I have seen this a couple of time now that 8-10 tank camp in the upper left lower left corner of the map, that only 1 or 2 tanks cross the rail rao), hill camping at Red shire etc I just give up and suicide, I have no patients with campers.

 

Also I never use gold/premium ammo in any of my tanks.

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im sorry, but thats what the tank is for

 

There are no sniping medium tanks "IMHO". if a medium (any non-TD tank) needs to camp then IMHO it is a broken design. Also for proper sniping, the maps need to be much much larger.

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I'm sorry, but how are you contributing to this discussion in any meaningful way? 

 

Your behaviour and attitude towards this game and your team mates is not something of which to be proud and while your type of attitude might be common on the official forums, it is very much in the minority here. 

 

Here we spend hours finding every possible way to maximize our and our tank's contribution to every single match we play. 

 

Here we are proud of each and every victory we snatch from the jaws of defeat against tremendous odds despite our team mates best efforts to lose the game. 

 

Here we agonize over our losses and mistakes and try our utmost to never fail the same way again. 

 

Here we play to win. 

 

I also play to win (most of the time). But I consider camping/sniping with (medium) tanks bad practise. I prefer to win, but winning by means of camping is just as bad as losing IMHO. Winning by camping means you did not play well, it only means the other team played "worse".

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 The damage output of the Panther II is pitiful.

 

The math checks out.

 

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Most shots bounce or never even hit the target and when they do hit you are luck if it does more then 200 damage. 

 

What is confirmation bias, Alex?

The aim time and rate of fire is terrible. 

 

I know, it's only got the highest rate of fire of all tier 8 mediums. Very terrible. Very. 2.7 second aim time isn't great, no, but at least it isn't the Indien Panzer (2.9), T-34-2-100 (2.9), or T-34-2-122 (3.4).

It has the camo value of a Maus so that mean sniping is not an option, when you fire you are spotted, once spotted it takes about 2-3 hit and then you are dead.

 

Sounds like you don't really understand camo mechanics.

when you are on a hill you cannot shoot anything since the gun cannot aim up or down.

 

-8°/15°, the exact same range as the T110E5.

 

How terrible.

 

Also, learn to use the multiquote function instead of posting so much.

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Well PERSONLLY, please please please do not consider this a attack on you, I hate absolutely hate it when people snipe in medium tanks. I know it is not rational. If you want to snipe get a TD, not a medium.

In most battles I die in the first 3 minutes.

 

Panther II Germany MT 8 1983 49.52%

T-44 U.S.S.R. MT 8 211 53.08%

Centurion Mk. I UK MT 8 215 54.42%

AMX 13 90 France LT 8 386 53.89%

M26 Pershing USA MT 8 368 45.92%

 

Not sure but I doubt my average damage in the Panther II is over 800.

 

I sold the T-44, it is too much of an easy mode tank

 

 

No offense taken at all.  My style isn't your's, I can live, (More than 3 min...) with that.

 

I'm on a learning curve, and find that shooting from cover/concealment is the most effective way to run the Panther II.  I'm also self-reliant for spotting, and get a pretty good number of Damage Assist Points.

 

The Panther II, IMHO, relies more on Vision and Accuracy, than you might be using it for.  Remember, good recce doesn't mean the physical Tank has to be forward of everyone, just the digital eyeballs.

 

I have issues with being hit.  Call it a mental block, but I'm still carrying the mindset "If I can see you, I can kill you", and that is reinforced with the Burst-O-Waffle meta I'm learning at T10.  You don't seem to have the same reservation, maybe from tanks that are better suited to your style.

 

 

As far as running a TD to snipe, I hate the GD things.  And it shows... I tried 3-4 of them and it was a disaster.

 

(Note to the OP:  The 88 is best for me on the Panther II.  And the 75/100 w/ gold was a WTF hoot on the E50.)

 

 

 

Also for proper sniping, the maps need to be much much larger.

 

True, that is.  Not that we get to have ballistics tables and windage, but true it is....  Same for proper maneuvering, not this 2-3 lane stuff.

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