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Panther II - Top Gun Comparo and Questions

132 posts in this topic

Massively overdue for this shitbox. As long as they don't utterly butcher the stats on it it'll be an interesting and useful vehicle at last, basically a tier 8 version of the Panther.

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3 hours ago, MacusFlash said:

Testing 88/L100 on P2 https://ritastatusreport.live/2016/10/04/panther-ii-supertest-changes/ Personally I expect ghetto gun handling.

 

Give P2 E50 gun stats, and will be really excellent T8 med.

3NThDrx.png

 

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According to TAP these are ST stats.

Tier: MT-8
HP: 1500
Engine: 700 hp
Mass: 54,710 t
Power-to-weight: 12,79 hp / t
Maximum speed: 55 / -20 km / h
Hull Traverse Speed: 36 ° / s
Turret Traverse Speed: 31,3 ° / s
Ground resistance values: 0,767 / 0,959 / 2,014
View Range: 390 m
Signal Range: 740,4 m

Hull armor: 100/60 /? mm
Turret armor: 120/60 /? mm


It’s receiving a gun currently usable only on the E50: 8.8 cm Kw.K. L / 100
Damage: 240/240/295
Penetration: 223/261/44 mm
Rate of Fire 7.821 rounds/minute
Damage Per Minute: 1877,1
Aiming time: 2,11 s
Reload time: 7,671 sec
Accuracy: 0,288
Depression/Elevation: -8/20

Rather long reload but really good aim time (way better than on E-50 with this gun). Also gun depression stays the same.

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24 minutes ago, MacusFlash said:

According to TAP these are ST stats.

Tier: MT-8
HP: 1500
Engine: 700 hp
Mass: 54,710 t
Power-to-weight: 12,79 hp / t
Maximum speed: 55 / -20 km / h
Hull Traverse Speed: 36 ° / s
Turret Traverse Speed: 31,3 ° / s
Ground resistance values: 0,767 / 0,959 / 2,014
View Range: 390 m
Signal Range: 740,4 m

Hull armor: 100/60 /? mm
Turret armor: 120/60 /? mm


It’s receiving a gun currently usable only on the E50: 8.8 cm Kw.K. L / 100
Damage: 240/240/295
Penetration: 223/261/44 mm
Rate of Fire 7.821 rounds/minute
Damage Per Minute: 1877,1
Aiming time: 2,11 s
Reload time: 7,671 sec
Accuracy: 0,288
Depression/Elevation: -8/20

Rather long reload but really good aim time (way better than on E-50 with this gun). Also gun depression stays the same.

 
 

DPM is shit, let's see bloom values...

Can anyone decipher this shit?

iZPddu1Z8PM.jpg

 

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DPM is slightly belowe average for its tier. With rammer and vents it rises to ~2100. 

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I was really looking forward to 9.17 because of Panther 2 buff. But I want E50 so bad that I dont want to wait until 9.18 so I will need lot of boosters to survive this grind :D

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I am about to make a purchase - either P2 or T32, most likely.  I was looking at the P2 guns, and I still don't see the 8.8/L100 available for it - was that not supposed to come in 9.17?  Or did I completely misread the postings?

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Posted (edited)

On 10/6/2016 at 2:18 AM, MacusFlash said:

DPM is slightly belowe average for its tier. With rammer and vents it rises to ~2100. 

KV-1 with 85 mm has 2300ish dpm.....

So P2 dpm with l/100 is horrible indeed

4 hours ago, Tanager said:

I am about to make a purchase - either P2 or T32, most likely.  I was looking at the P2 guns, and I still don't see the 8.8/L100 available for it - was that not supposed to come in 9.17?  Or did I completely misread the postings?

88mm l100 is coming in 2017 or next patch i think

Edited by Pinkerson
can't find the word for it

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8 hours ago, Pinkerson said:

88mm l100 is coming in 2017 or next patch i think

Thanks man.  I went with the T32.

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On 1/4/2017 at 3:31 AM, Pinkerson said:

KV-1 with 85 mm has 2300ish dpm.....

Now, KV-1 with 57 mm:serb:.

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On 1/6/2017 at 2:41 AM, Felicius said:

Now, KV-1 with 57 mm:serb:.

Yeah man, it's pretty retarded when you can permatrack 2 tank at the same time...

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Managed to get 2700 wn8 in first 30 battle and then bad tilt games came and it went down to blue level...

Not a very good tank,  obj 416 is better. A dpm buff would be great tho

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This really isn't a medium, it's a low-alpha turreted TD, or at least that's how I've resolved to play it - basically a severely gimped Skorp G.  It's way too sluggish to play it like a true medium, and good grief does it cut a huge silhouette.  28 battles in. Occasionally I'll get a chance to farm a stranded heavy or the like, but if I can't keep myself a fair distance from the front lines, I get in trouble rapidly.  At least it's got decent accuracy/RoF/pen.  The gun handling certainly feels better than the Indien-Panzer, but that's damning with faint praise.  I'll probably play it once a day (assuming I win my first battle) to get my 2x, but I'll let it sit idle for now beyond that.  At least I have the t54 unlocked, I can just grind credits for that...

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Am I crazy or is the new gun so heavy that it makes it unusable? The lower reload + extra slugishness feel unbearable. 

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You are not crazy. That gun is the heaviest (by far) of all the guns available for the Panther II which will contribute to mobility difficulties.

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2 hours ago, DirtyACE7 said:

You are not crazy. That gun is the heaviest (by far) of all the guns available for the Panther II which will contribute to mobility difficulties.

I thought loosing 0.2 HP/T would not be noticeable but it somehow is. That + lower DPM and the top gun just seems like a bad choice since it basically turns you into a tiger that gives away 400 dpm for 20mm pen and 0.3 terrain resitance with hp/t being the same. 

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1 hour ago, hazzgar said:

I thought loosing 0.2 HP/T would not be noticeable but it somehow is. That + lower DPM and the top gun just seems like a bad choice since it basically turns you into a tiger that gives away 400 dpm for 20mm pen and 0.3 terrain resitance with hp/t being the same. 

5 hours ago, hazzgar said:

Am I crazy or is the new gun so heavy that it makes it unusable? The lower reload + extra slugishness feel unbearable. 

The rapier gun has aimtime which isn't retarded and best-in-tier accuracy. That, coupled with the extra pen makes you......somewhat relevant in high tier games........sometimes. The thing about these 240 alpha guns on paper platforms is this: how often do you find yourself using the full dpm anyway? Outside of a permatracked target, the DPM difference between these 90 mils is negligible anyway. It's like saying the P 88 reloads much faster than the 50t. It simply doesn't matter most of the time. What is worth bearing in mind also is that the short long 88 has terrible APCR pen which means the entire front of something like a Defender or a Liberte is no-go. Contrast this with the L100 where you can not only pen the LFP with ease but also nail weakspots reliably. 

I've always felt that the PII was the odd one out in the Panther line. It used not to be a dedicated sniper but just a very mediocre support tank that was continually shafted by MM and powercreep. This is unlike the Panther and the E50, which actually have their niche as heavy-ish snipers. At least it fits now - the playstyle not the gun.

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Soooo....I'm about 35k away from unlocking the E Fitty.  Do I burn 45k of that to get the L/100?  Or do I just finish the grind with the equipment I have?  Would getting the L/100 make grinding the Panther II okay enough to basically more than double the number of battles left?

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You want to grind the L/100 not because of P2 performance, but because it'll make E50 grind much easier. Luna already showed that on E50 L/100 is actually a viable gun even compared to 105mm, to have stock gun with similar performance to top gun is massive. So I'd do it.

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God this tank is STILL fucking awful. Even with decent pen it's a horrible platform that still bounces off tier 10s all fucking day. Tanks like this have ZERO role in the game anymore.

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I ground out about 30 battles in it today.  Getting pretty close to the E Fitty now.  Since getting the L/100, it's a much more tolerable tank, I think.  I was doing pretty well in it today.  I didn't HATE it, like I've always before.  Still, one more good grinding day and I'm out of it!

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10 hours ago, Griphos said:

I ground out about 30 battles in it today.  Getting pretty close to the E Fitty now.  Since getting the L/100, it's a much more tolerable tank, I think.  I was doing pretty well in it today.  I didn't HATE it, like I've always before.  Still, one more good grinding day and I'm out of it!

I went back to the old gun. The extra pen rarely helps since in most cases it's still either flank or bounce and the exptra DPM and hp/t make the tank less annoying. It's still shit though

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4 minutes ago, hazzgar said:

I went back to the old gun. The extra pen rarely helps since in most cases it's still either flank or bounce and the exptra DPM and hp/t make the tank less annoying. It's still shit though

doesn't the top gun get worse bloom or something irrc?

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Bloom is the same for both 88s.  The long 88 gets better dispersion and aim time. It's shell is also a little faster. In my experience, it hits better, both in accuracy and punch. It's worth it to me for the small DPM and mobility loss. It's not like the tank is very mobile to begin with, and I like accurate guns over almost any other feature.  Like I said, much better games yesterday.

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19 hours ago, Griphos said:

Bloom is the same for both 88s.  The long 88 gets better dispersion and aim time. It's shell is also a little faster. In my experience, it hits better, both in accuracy and punch. It's worth it to me for the small DPM and mobility loss. It's not like the tank is very mobile to begin with, and I like accurate guns over almost any other feature.  Like I said, much better games yesterday.

The thing is the shorter 88 is still plenty accurate. The worse hp/t killed me since the tank is slow already. The long 88 made it a very shitty heavy tank.

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