I got to the Mahan (tier 7) on the US DD tree. Great guns, but detection happens at about 8.4 km from memory. Gun range is 12ish kms, you CANNOT shoot at max range without being detected. Torps have a range of 4.5km but do have speed. Unless the enemy CA or BB is a complete potato, torp runs are usually fatal. I sold it and focused on the Jap DD tree for now, of which I have the Hatsuhara (tier 7). You finally get workable guns, 9.4km range and on the upgrade hull you have 2 twin turrets. The primary weapon is still the torpedo, 10 km range @ low 60s knots. The thing with this is that detection on the Hatsu is 6.4 km, so you can close and launch at CPA (for me, about 6.6km if I wanna stay invisibru) a double spread and disengage without being lit, continue to track the enemy and repeat in just over a minute. However, a single plane will completely stuff this up, they will spot you at about 3km if you have AA turned off, and if you can't turn out of their view range you end up getting shepherded away from your targets, I usually survive this but if I can't close to torp range I am combat ineffective. My Minekaze (42k dpg and 1254 av XP) has double the average damage of my Hatsuhara, (21k dpg and 1130 av XP) which I can put down to better players at higher tiers, more Cruisers and the effect of CVs. Ultimately, US DDs after the Nicholas are an exercise in frustration, I will return to the line later but as it is now, they are little more than under gunned low HP cruisers. Japanese DDs are great if you can get through undetected, you may hit a potato Cruiser but I generally target BBs or may do a really close range torp run on an undefended CV, once I am lit I start spamming HE as well. Win rate - lol, if you want win rate, play Cruisers in a division. Otherwise, enjoy the ride of the asia server amusement park.