MeVersusPing reacted to kolni in Kolni's Story from Pleb to 6K (personal story, no gameplay advice)
Alright, so since I've been a part of WoTLabs for so long I thought I'd share my story on how I got here. About WoT, going pro, being the best and the wonderful and not so great times I've had because of it. This is just a personal story, for some it can be entirely pointless but some people might enjoy it.
(This is purely my experiences that made me the player I am today,, so if you're not interested in that type of thing this probably isn't for you.)
Let's start off at the very beginning. I was 12 or 13, my uncle introduced me to this game. After an hour of playing or so I got kind of hooked, but as I was kind of underdeveloped in some areas at the time I started focusing on very different things than what my reasoning now will never see. I got a code with a T2 Light Tank, and it made money! Great, I could spam the OP round day in day out and earn credits along the way. T18 was also a stupidly strong tier 2 so I kept myself to playing those two. I liked being in charge, dictating the game. 2K games later (yes you heard that right) I got bored of the T2 gameplay, and decided to try something a little higher tier.
I made my first forum post on the official forums frustrated about players rolling me over, and I was lucky enough to have Poltto (old EU Legend) answer me there. He gave me some great advice on how to think about the game that I still carry with me. Being sure and confident in your ability aids you just as much as perfect mechanics will. That belief had some sort of value. I am diagnosed with autism, so I found this very soothing. Then I looked at Poltto's stats and was amazed. How in the actual fuck? At the time I had just gotten my first tier 9 (M46 Patton) with about half his outputs in everything.
I got curious about player skill, something I hadn't really considered as games weren't competition to me. Now they were. It felt like I had figured it out, getting to enjoy the satisfaction of improvement. I started off by watching various streamers (not RU streamers though as their meta lets them get away with way too much stupid shit) to both find openings and rotations mostly, I always liked low armoured assassin champions. I picked up Shaco in League and climbed pretty high in the first season, getting into the real mindset of the drive you need to actually improve to the point you want. Taking this process into WoT wasn’t really difficult, it almost came naturally.
Fast forward about 6 months:
I found WN8 and WoTLabs from two OM guys that just crushed my entire team and frustrated as I was, flamed in all chat. They told me to look up WotLabs and the Elitist+Stronk Pluton channels in game to meet some stronger players.. I looked at it, and the metric seemed pretty good. I thought... is this what people use to measure their strength in? Probably not. I saw myself on that ladder, very far down. I played ranked solo queue in League where people try harder, so I improve. II had the same feeling for tanks, I needed to go up the tiers. Once I felt improvement, I couldn't stop. That was it. The urge, and while I had a career in music production right off the bat in high school.. This was what I really wanted to do..
I started looking into the numbers, who the great players were; emu87, zzlzxzzlzx, espanol and unknwn comes to mind. You are not there yet, but you can be if you improve is what I told myself.. At this point I had about 2 years of playtime, not doing anything else but s3alclubbing in game every game I played since higher tiers were going so poorly. 1 year later I decided to move up the tier trees again for another try. I wanted to become good at the game. It felt like a good challenge, and I like a good challenge.
I also started platooning with some better players, Draz_H from S3AL in particular had a 6K game in his Type 59 on Kharkov the very first game we played together so I was just blown away. He offered to give me some pointers and explained that preserving HP and a good opening is normally enough to have a good game. The trick to this according to him was reading the line up according to the map state. I never really figured this concept out until then. Time to find more information to build my gameplay upon.
(Now about at 1500-1600 WN8)
Here comes the next contender: Hellcat (pre-nerf).
I watched EJ play it in an interesting way I’d never seen before.. Concepts like vision and kiting were easier to put together as parts of the game's inner workings while watching someone else.
I was 1500 WN8 56%WR at the time (s3alclubbing buffed my WR, as I said.). of this happening.. I grew something inside of me, I wanted to improve. And today, that desire still hasn’t gone away, It’s fueled much, but also caused much frustration along the way. I was learning now, reviewing my own retardation in replays for months to get a better sense of right and wrong and I finally felt some clarity. A long and dark path, probably lonely too. Perfect for me. I am going to be the best at this video game. Period. I decided this in high school. Hellcat spamming was a great teaching tool for understanding vision that I still appreciate today, even if I refuse to play anything below tier 9.
My high school years were spent producing beats and sampling old disco songs into EDM, honestly a very simple thing to do if music theory is something you master. I was really going my own way and already carving it out before adulthood. However, this game. World of Tanks… Something about it made me always want to play.. Eventually I started playing over composing in my free time instead of balancing the two. Seeing one’s work come to life is something truly special - but WoT filled another void within me that I honestly liked better. I had fun, was confident and started to make sense of it all.
Streams like EJs and advice from the many players on here (X3N4, _KT, Patient0, Poltto, Kewei + plenty of other of you) really helped me grasp the more difficult parts of the game and as such, I started improving rapidly. My period as Unicum before Super Unicum was the shortest between the cutoffs on the spectrum, and I really started liking the game. I played well, got into some stronger clans at the time (KITTY and S3AL) where I could regularly play with players of the same caliber and continue evolving.
Then WoT introduced Marks of Excellence. I was still on a shitty MacBook Pro using a Wine wrapper that couldn’t load 4 maps at all and crashed every 3rd game, but I managed to 3mark the E 50. That was a very big milestone for me, but I felt that my PC really kept holding me back. My parents were nice enough to support me in gaming as my diagnoses hadn’t been discovered yet (although they were most definitely there and parents were aware) and that doing something I simply genuinely enjoy might be worth spending some money on. My parents were musicians growing up so they always supported that path. Gaming was new and something my mom especially had trouble seeing as anything more than a time-sink until I got good and showed her my Paypal after 2 months of non-stop boosting later on .I’m jumping forward in time here but I don’t think family stuff has a place here, but I’ll at least say that this was eventually resolved.
I got a decent PC, a GTX 970 which was brand new at the time and other fairly solid components making the game suddenly run very smoothly on high quality. It took me a few days but past that? What an improvement. I went from barely being able to mark the “easy” marks to doing moderately hard ones in 75 games or less. The jump in DPG went from scratching the 2K region to reliably hitting the 2500-2800s in tier 8s. I felt ready to move up to tier 10 and get good there now. I spent most of my time with tier 8 as it was so much easier, and I liked marking premium tanks for their income during the challenge. I was never much for skirmishes until I actually joined S3AL a while later. During this time I had just left KITTY to join WaterWar’s clan LAVA and this is probably where I had the most personal growth as a player, KITTY’s Commander (GetLucky) was also swedish and liked playing with me a lot, as he was a 4k player and I was hovering at 3k wn8, I paid a lot of attention to his play. He played very passively to my surprise but eventually explained that patience tends to lead to better decisions as long as you don’t take too long. In LAVA I started playing Ranked TBs and skirmishes as they were so good for credits, and I also got the hang of organized play. Randoms were still the thing I enjoyed most until I joined S3AL after LAVA died and we were doing T6 fastbois. So much banter, soundboards and genuine fun on the TS that included a social aspect of the game I didn’t really experience until very late in my career. I found it fun, but randoms were still my jam. We had tons of fun with T-22 memery, tons of top clans coming together to.. Uh… complete missions, and all that stuff.
At this point in time I was very much a platoon player, me and Constie (remember him?) pretty much played everything together. but 3 man platoons always felt like cheating to me.
As I was now drowning in credits, I could finally buy and play tier 10s without issues. I really liked the BatChat, and spammed it until I 3marked it (1700 games.. lol) until I moved to the next. I realised that mostly what I was searching for was a challenge, more particularly one that fell in line with something I’d taken interest in. The 3MoE hunting ensued. After having done one tier 10, I believed I could do them all. That’s what I set my goal as, the DPG hunt got pushed aside in favour of marks.
I think this would be late 2016, as I started topping DPG charts on tier 8s and finally hit the 7k combined recent/overall cutoff FAME had to get into the clan. I asked X3N4 and he sent me an invite. I felt like I made it first time I joined FAME, best clan in the world so I am one of the best players. It wasn’t until here I discovered ESL and found that super interesting. After a few months in FAME I got a Whatsapp message from Knäckebröd asking me to try-out for their team mid-season as genghiswolves had been accepted to his uni and couldn’t play anymore.
Placing wasn’t great either as they were already so behind that we couldn’t get back into the league despite having a positive record past my joining. In this environment I was still pretty new, everyone was a better player than I was used to so the tricks to beating bad ones didn’t work since they wouldn’t fall for them. Cohesive gameplay and real time strategy became the big thing to focus on as flawless mechanics should be a no-brainer here. Boosting became a thing and I really went in for it to provide some extra value to my team, we were 8 and 7 people could play so as the new guy I’d have to fight for my spot if I didn’t do well. Luckily I never had to. But the boosting (climbing) times, me, Xaneleon and Failware (all on Knäckebröd, now Xane works for WG and Failware is considered FAME 1st team and one of the best players in the world in organised play) we all spent 20+ hours on Steppes and Mines to figure out new stuff for strats for the map.
I really liked FAME. The motto of “it’s not personal, you’re out if you don’t have what it takes.” really groomed me. I wound meeting some of them in Katowice during the -16 EU playoffs, had a great time and I think there’s still some legendary clips from Dakis stream from when we were there. I graduated high school around this time, and started boosting on my free time. WGL training + boosting was basically what I spent my day on, earning enough to get by and fund my music stuff (studio time isn’t cheap) and we set our eyes on playoffs in KB that’d mean a decent piece of prize money. We trained 3 times a week, sometimes against EU or RU teams in 3 hour blocks of perfecting strats, after they had their turn trying their strat - we had ours. Sometimes the team would want us to adjust strats to counter to see if we could beat it and sometimes they just wanted a standard defense to fight against so in general the training varied heavily from team to team. The russian teams always went full yolo every single game no matter what so you barely gained anything from the games if you didn’t just crush them in fighting them before they started applying any sort of strategy, funnily enough the EU silver league was MUCH better training partners than the russian ones, even some RU WGL teams were a complete mess to talk and organize with. We weren’t a top team even if KB placed 5th the season before so we mostly got practice times with EU teams and silver RU/EU teams as the top EU teams trained vs eachother and russian top teams most of the time. As I joined, the relegation was already dangling over our heads so I could pretty much play without pressure.
I really liked the 7v7 7/68, the attack defense + boosts made it all about strategy and very little about RNG as the better team actually won most of the time compared to randoms.
My very first ESL game was against KAZNA, the #2 team considered by pretty much everyone as DiNG was stomping most teams. I played out of my mind, and we were up 4-2. Sadly they were prepared for our Ghost Town strats (4th map) and we found ourselves in a tiebreaker, here the stakes were insane. We were expected to lose this match and even had a W/L route planned to remain in the WGL if we did and we went in kinda uncoordinated as I had only been practicing the game-mode for a week and was pretty fresh. If we won this match we would surpass The Lucky Bunch, putting us outside the relegation risk zone. KAZNA sadly had a better Cliff strat than we did and won the game 4-5. As my first WGL game, the comeback really made a dent in my confidence. After that loss, the team sort of lost its charisma and the rest of the season was depressing. After the relegation there was a major league in between silver and WGL where we played, but most players moved on after KB got relegated. I focused on streaming after this point. 3MoE hunting was my jam, and I was getting good at it. Aim_Drol eventually released a spreadsheet of the top 100 markers on the servers and I found myself on the top 10. I decided to mark every tier 10. That was my goal. So I did. It was a long grind, the STB-1 especially almost broke me. Once I had hit that, I felt completed. What now? I was already good at the game, with Daki and Jostra shaping me competitively and much of the WGL training made me a much more consistent player.
However, I didn’t really know what to do. Quit playing? I have completed what I set out to, but I’m too good at this to quit. Then I remembered; I want to be the best. I looked at my service record and saw the demise that the play4fun me caused before I started taking the game seriously - so I sent a ticket in and resetted the account. I got to keep all rewards so I had a 260, 907, T-55A and all my premiums along with enough 907 ammo/consumables for 1K games.
Account was resetted, and I wanted to wait for the right time to start playing randoms on it. I grinded regular TBs and Skirmishes to get a good enough crew for the 907 in randoms. I had already marked it twice before so I wasn’t too worried, but I need at least 3-4+ skill crew if I want to challenge the top DPG players. On this account, every game mattered. I could not autopilot or not take it seriously, so I invested very heavily into performing. I was streaming most of this and it grew a bit, and the 907 grind was kinda funny. Reserves or FL didn’t exist then so you had to actually grind the crew you wanted from scratch, otherwise I had to complete the first set of Stug missions to get a female crew - which would require playing random battles. I wound up starting my 907 grind with a 100% crew at 80% on BiA in randoms once the reserves came as 50 games let me hit 3 skills if I used x5s and boosters right. Still, the first 150 games got me to 94% on the mark. I thought to myself that hmm.. Maybe it’s just really OP?
But then I had 1k games straight of bullshit where I fluctuated between 80-90 and just couldn’t get a good enough streak of games to complete it. But I wouldn’t give up. I was the number one 907 player on Hall of Fame 4 months in a row, without the third mark completed. That really frustrated me. I was the fucking best player of the tank, how can I not get it? The mark req was at it’s peak (6600) and I was playing out of my mind. There were like 2 players on the server at the time with a higher DPG and they didn’t have anywhere near the battle count (100 vs 1K) so I couldn’t fathom how I couldn’t get it. I decided to put it off after hitting 1k games and started playing other stuff and really saw how much that I’ve improved. I had gone from a typical 3k 50B player to topping the DPG chart with zero time on it in between, and the same applied for many other tanks. Tier 10s were getting marked before 100 games. I was really peaking. At least I thought so.
Carbon was basically the only guy who reliably beat my DPGs at this time and as Luna (not Wotlabs Luna) knows Carbon, and me being in the same clan as Luna both in S3AL and FAME, I got some advice and replays to learn from. I inspected them very closely and learned a lot. Carbon’s greatest strength that I gathered from his replays was that he always knew what was going to happen and positioned in time, in every tank. Timing and gameflow became something I inspected more closely and I really developed in consistency even if my median game went down slightly, my average went up because of the insane carries coming more consistently once I had Carbon’s mindset down - coupled with my own. This is also when I started boosting a lot. I had been boosting 2016-2018 and faired well, but when I really competed for the top is when I got a lot of offers. I made a living out of boosting after having rerolled, some stream donations and the boosting money was enough to pay for the crucial stuff. I didn’t mind gaming all day, I still liked the game. I still do. This meant that I drifted away from music, lost touch with a lot of my friends in the business as I dove into gaming. I wanted to be number 1. This account was a fresh start and I was going to make sure of it. At 5K games it would show up on the leaderboard, so I needed a 5500WN8 overall to take the spot. I didn’t want to cheat my way there by abusing light tanks, or cheat WN8 by the tier average bug so I went straight for the tier 10 DPG tryharding again.
I watched some movie, can’t remember which (sorry), as I was trying to fall asleep but couldn’t. The day before was awful as I had gone from 93 to 82 on the 907 mark. Something there just really inspired me. I went for a walk at 4:30 in the morning for about an hour and then just got to it. I decided that this is it. I’m completing this right now. I turned on the stream, feeling torn if I should stream it (I always play like 5-10% worse on stream, never been able to shake it) or just grind without viewers over my shoulder. I decided to stream it, and my god if that wasn’t the best session I ever had. 7,2k average combined across 25 games. The most tilting thing happened though, as the game that shaved off before apparently was a big one meaning I had to do 7.8k to get mark from a 94.95 across the finish line. This was the third time I had the mark in the 94,9X range, and I wasn’t going to choke this time around. Incoming triple arty full tier 10 Karelia. I was so tilted as it’s one of the worst maps to get the REALLY high results on even if it’s decent at getting adequate ones - especially the three arties. Luckily the enemy team just runs into my gun and my team doesn’t do much but take damage for me. The mark mod told me I was across the finish line, at 8AM I could finally let this challenge go. The rest of the game I played out perfectly with the pressure gone, wound up turning it into a 95,7 percentage once the mark actually completed. With it, I also went over 5K games and finally took first place on the WoTLabs WN8 leaderboard as the only 6K WN8 player on any server at the time.
This was also during the time I boosted 3MoEs for days on end, getting into it eventually lead me to just watching movies on a second monitor and autocompleting everything non-tier 10.
The last thing I did was join Majstoras silver team FAME 7x7 where we literally crushed everyone and still stomped WGL teams in the qualifier - but as Majstora (our FC and a WoT mastermind) was moving to England with his brother Maresca (also on our team) our team started falling apart. We still had the WGL slot, and some players decided to stay and formed a new team, Savage Squad. I decided to leave because without Majstora I didn’t think we would compete with the top teams. We were scrimming them and going evenly, but doing some trainings without voicecoms (training personal decision making - it’s a trick to make players better on initiative so the FC has to micromanage them less and can focus more on big picture)
Now I felt burned out, that grind really took a while and our effort into the ESL kinda was the last I had in me. 6month hiatus ensued where I got back into music again as it’s a hobby I felt I had neglected for so long. I quit boosting too so I could distance myself from the game.
Coming back to WoT casually afterwards, the game changed a lot. Maps were remodeled much to my dismay and so many gimmicky things made the game harder to play. Coming back I definitely felt washed. Playing on cygaN_’s account as I didn’t have my own, a great polish friend of mine from S3AL. I also used User’s account for some challenges, like the ISU-130 (also almost broke me) and the T-44-122 to complete some of the rarer marks in the game that I wouldn’t have access to otherwise.
After that, cygaN_ gave me an account from a great friend to play on. Wujaszek, an account that had ground out everything, 500mil credits and about as much invested into consumables. He said that he was done with randoms and that I was free to use the acc as I wanted as long as I just don’t log in when he’s online playing FL or skrims (having to check the clan website page before logging basically). I was really happy he’d just give me the freedom to use his acc for whatever I wanted. I missed out on all the ranked stuff but he didn’t, so I had 4 full sets of improved equipment I could put on. I also had every tank in the game available outside of the low tier premiums, and nothing was 3marked. This felt like a really nice time-sink, but the game changed so much that I had to relearn much of what I already knew. Tempo sped up a lot and lights were figuring out better bushes and I had to adjust. For very long I wasn’t anything special, I could still 3mark any tier 10 with ease but the reward tanks kept giving me trouble. 121B wasn’t more than 100 games to do after the buff, but the rest took a while. It was my first M60 attempt and while I had the M48 playstyle down the mobility really changed the way to play the tank. 800 games later I took it and wound up really liking the M60. High mobility, high pen and a strong gun felt like the perfect combination to me. I wanted to repay him for letting me use his account, but as I’m marking pretty much everything I play - he considers that enjoyment enough since he can only play on weekends anyway. Great guy, we can’t communicate very well as he’s polish and can’t speak english but nevertheless he is one of my best internet friends anyway.
This meant I had to change the way I played the game, from a more aggressive approach to map control to a mistake-capitalising once. Surprisingly this came very naturally, and once able to combine the two I really started having pop-off sessions like never before. 4K+ing tier 9s, nearing 4500. At this point I kept feeling burnouts after 2-3 weeks of playing the game, realising the fun only lasted for a week or two. So I modeled my gameplay after this. I decided to play casually, but well. Plenty of breaks in between, playing mostly once every other week if at all but I was still able to showcase some good gameplay.
I started the engineering programme at uni at this time, so now I had studies, WoT and music to juggle. WoT just fell short of the other two at this point my life, so I barely played at all during 2019. Studies came first and music was finally going well again, started doing live shows (DJing) and having fun without gaming. WoT slipped further and further away. Whenever I wanted to waste time, League was my choice of game - or I’d go back and speedrun Mirror’s Edge (still top 20 on two maps xD) rather than having to learn the changes of WoT.
But every now and then, I pick WoT back up - generally for a challenge to see if I still got it. This is how I play the game now. I spam games under a short time period and put it off afterwards, it works for me but I’ll definitely admit that playing WoT is freshware, you need regular exposure or you’ll drop in skill.
I like WoT now. Wheelies and arty can still suck a dick but I am having fun playing this way, trying hard enough I am definitely able to keep up, but there are no stakes - I have other things I should be doing if WoT goes poorly, so I can quit without anger and move on to the next thing right away.
I managed to 3mark the Chieftain which was the last very, very hard reward to do for me. I enjoyed the grind, even though it was 300 games long between 85-90 until the 90-95 happened right away with perfect maps and not a single game drop. Past that I also felt it left some void, DPGs on this account doesn't matter because these tanks have all been played by someone before me so it’s not something to shoot for, but I think that’s a good thing. No pressure. I can play the game, have fun and not care if things don’t work out. I am very willing to admit that I am washed up from my prime (I’m a 4800 player now, not a 6k player) and recent CWs with FAME have shown that I really got more to learn. I missed Daki flaming me in some weird way so feels good to be back in something recognisable.
3 weeks ago however I broke my hand, initially it looked very very bad. Right hand too so no mouse use. This also meant I’d miss the campaign which I only joined because there’s just so few things to do in Sweden during COVID that I found it to be something I might enjoy. I missed the FAME guys anyway after meeting them in Katowice. (70% of the WGLEU was FAME, and all playoffs teams had at least majority FAME players + one or two russians so it really was just like meeting the best players of the best clan). Most of them are really nice, Barry and Skarium especially were super fun to meet and hang out with.
We did a smaller S3AL meetup in CPH a while back too, but it quickly turned into a who can beat Fosco in a drinking contest that the weekend is a bit of a blur
Luckily my hand is healing well, I played again yesterday and with a brace I can use a mouse to about 90% accuracy which is enough for WoT. Also had my first tier 9 10k game, super rusty.. Oh the irony. Now I just play to perform, and when I don’t.. I just quit. I feel like I’ve escaped the clutches of this game's addictive lure. I’m really happy I can still perform, and I’ll keep trying until that’s no longer an option I think. But now I am in charge, not the game. There is no “go next” after dying early, that is an ALT F4 and I can leave WoT behind without dwelling on it.
This may just be pointless rambling, but I thought I’d write it up. As I said, there is absolutely zero gameplay advice here, simply my story on how I got to where I am right now. I’m still not peaking I believe, as I’m reaching higher highs than when I literally played this game for a living well over a year tryharding my ass off. Development really is a fickle thing and I really do think peace of mind and critical thinking is a bigger part of improvement at the top than anything else.
I’m going to end this on a more sombre note. I was genuinely addicted to WoT. I never got help, but I valued games over things like sleep, food and socialising. That was a big mistake I made, and the one bit of advice I’ll give in this thread is to not let the game take you over. Yeah, you will likely be great if WoT is all you ever think about - but then the game is really just playing you. Improvement is slow but concentrating it into shorter timeframes really doesn’t do you any favours. Taking things from past games is what helps you improve, and a replay review will give at least 10x the information than just “going next” will in that game.
Today I like WoT, I have fun playing on my own terms and I can look back on my WoT days as something I enjoyed. There’s no hatred, but the game really didn’t do me any favours outside of the game. I have many regrets and going down this path is honestly one of them, even if I achieved what I wanted in the game I think pursuing other goals outside of it would have made me happier. I’ve accepted this though and it’s not bothering me.
I don’t know where I would be without WoT though, it really ignited the grinding and improvement spark that I think can be well put to use if you find something interesting enough to keep it alive. I haven’t found that IRL yet, but I’m gonna keep looking. It also showed me how an elitist attitude necessarily isn’t a bad thing, and that competition means making hard decisions and having a strong mental. There are definitely things I can take with me to help me in other areas. The strive for being the best, actually getting there and feeling the relief of completion is honestly astounding. When that endless drive is fueling you, why pump the brakes? Take your shot. I’m conflicted about what happened when I did mine, but talent/hard work pays off if you lean into it so I think it’s a good idea to shoot your shot when you finally see an opening. I'm especially thankful for knowing that I am able to power through no matter how bad things feel, the 907 really had me in shambles but sheer will is enough to set things straight sometimes.
MeVersusPing reacted to kolni in [High Level Gameplay] - Laying a Solid Foundation & Increasing Consistency
This'll probably be the last thread I make regarding improvement, the game is about as milked out in content it can be. I decided to do it now because EU tier 10 is 3 arties every game so I don't really feel like I'm missing out by writing this up instead of playing. I'll also start off by saying that any question you might have (to me specifically) about anything game related when it comes to improvement, preventing tilt, getting out of a rut and so on all the way to tank/map specific things (opening positions, counters, timings, you name it) are things I will do my best to answer in this thread, if it isn't then ask it here and I'll answer to the best of my ability. It's also very little concrete advice here as the meta game gets trickier the higher you go, if you have any concrete questions to give the bones some meat then please do so.
I play this game with absolutely no regard for the outside economy as the account I'm using has 450million credits with almost as much in consumables and there is nothing to grind on the account, it's simply missing some premiums and rewards. I also have acceptable crews for almost everything, and if I don't I switch them out. I don't take outside factors into consideration in the game. I won't keep firing AP instead of APCR for some extra credits at the cost of performance. I give myself the best chance of having as good of a game possible before loading into battle, and if you care about performance then you should too. I am not in the normal position of a WoT player here, as these things really matter early on. A playstyle like this is sustained either through spending money on the game, or a heavy amount of skrims before hitting random battles to keep your economy positive throughout.
This has very little to do with direct game performance but the economy in WoT is a foundation you should build solid as it'll help prevent the most basic problems for a tryhard mentality. Running out of credits has happened to many, many players before strongholds were a thing. Stronghold skirmishes also solves some of the issues for a good service record, if you want a good overall service record on a tank the crew needs to be good, all modules researched and the best ones mounted before loading into randoms altogether. Radios are debatable but to me it's a matter of principle, if it's better I will run it even if the cost/benefit of researching is incredibly low.
Making purchases on sale, stocking up on rations and big kits and so on to the point where it will last you until the next opportunity to do the same is where you'll want to be at or further in your economy. If you can sustain buying all your consumables up front for the entire period when it's on sale and holding off on tanks if they'll be discounted in the foreseeable future, your monetary problems in the game go down by so much. It is a long road to set your economy up that way, as it requires a lot of grinding. You're going from being a customer of consumables and equipment to owning your own depot. If it didn't require a lot of work then everyone would be doing this in the real world too, but it really is the most sensible way of not running into monetary problems as it is one of the biggest issues regarding performance. Not in the performance today, but in your ability to perform in the future.
I'm lucky enough to not have to play skirmishes or spend money on the game now. Premium time, clan boosts and personal reserves make for break even or better with discounted consumables in even the most credit hungry tanks (50B, SConq, E 50 etc) with acceptable performance on them. This is probably where the real thread starts but I felt like making note of how much your outside economy matters and how setting it up to supplement you in the future really makes a difference. I am at the end with no problems at all, all tanks bought, equipped and credits are in overflow to the point where I have my next 15k games already paid in advance. Not having problem with credits ever again is a really big thing. For most players seeking to improve however this'd translate to playing a lot of skirmishes, or buying it with real money. Regardless of what you choose, taking steps towards a more sound economic structure along the way is something I really recommend. Eliminating one of the core problems of having an outside economy (unsustainable costs) while still being able to reap the benefits (other people also have unsustainable costs, and as a result they will ultimately perform worse because of it).
I think about my game in two ways. The battle I just loaded in to play on its own, and then all the battles I played and will play for the session. For the first, economy doesn't matter. For the second one it does. I'll go more into separating your gameplay into these two later, but it's important to remember through out.
Time to start the topic for real:
I'll be answering the most commonly asked questions I get regarding improvement, consistency and on keeping an emotional distance and a professional mindset towards the game. I cannot stress this enough: Having a worker-attitude towards the game fixes a lot of anger management issues the game presents you with, but in doing so you'll start sucking out the fun as well. I enjoy the game enough (although in periods) that I still get enjoyment out of playing with a pro-active mindset to improve. This is where a lot of people fall short and it's totally understandable. An improving mindset is a really boring one. You are playing with an improving purpose, and not an enjoyment purpose. I'd say that I enjoy myself the most in a game where I just play and zone out until the game is over. Back in reality, basically a small escape from the real world for a while until you're forced to do whatever the real world requires of you. Thinking of your game in a similar way takes a lot of fun out of it, as being emotionally invested is an obstacle to overcome to reliable results. Luckily I am a competitive person, so I get my enjoyment out of good results, and many people are similar.
This means that you treat the game as you would an assignment from a school, employer or whatever. It already sounds a lot less fun. You are playing to improve. This means that every rambo-like feeling you get out of casually playing goes out the window just as fast as the aggressive emotions that many people already struggle with fighting off. You can't be emotionally invested either way, as your emotions will influence your decision making that you want to be as pure in logic and reason as they can.
Because of this, you'll want to distance yourself emotionally from the game just like a bad habit in real life. The boss forcing you on overtime means you suck it up even though you're pissed. You are mad because things aren't going the way you wanted and there's no easy fix for that. A worker mindset of adapting to it to the best of your ability and getting better at accepting whatever comes your way to get over it as soon as possible is the best way of dealing with it. This means that everything in the game that is out of your control is something not worth investing into emotionally. This includes everything from being XVM-yoloed, arty-whored or RNG putting a consecutive 4 shots at the edge of reticle. What exactly does an emotional investment get you here? Only fuel to a fire you already want to put out, your emotions are counterproductive right from the get go. This means that you have to let things like these go. They do nothing for improving your current game and only raise the tension for the games to come.
Bad experiences from your current game should be left there, with anything positive to take from it should be at least considered. When sporting a working mindset you'll simply structure your gameplay in a way that you keep refining and re-evaluating your decisions and replace your bad tendencies with good ones. This is how I do it:
Step 1. This is almost always initial deployment. Make up and decide where to go on the map on the spot after you've read the line-up and estimated the general deployment. Step 1 should at least have some benefits of going there, if it doesn't your step 1 is not good enough. This is everything from favourable terrain, free crossing shots, vision, tank advantage on flank and so on. How much damage is there going to be at step 1? - Try to answer. If you were right, focus on step 2. If you were wrong, think about why. Sometimes this is not taking slow mobility into account, or trading poorly too early etc. Personal misplay is an answer you are going to have to admit a lot of times here, Step 2. What to do after the initial deployment period and the damage it gave. Step 2 and onward is more difficult to give advice on, as they differ much more from step 1 which will remain fairly similar until you decide on a different opening position. Something to consider here however is how aggressive it should be. I base my aggression on urgency. If there is plenty of damage to farm, there's no need to throw your own HP into the mix until you will start losing out on better situations without it or a better position. I think about step 2 as I'm doing step 1. Unlike step 1 it will vary a lot more depending on what is happening on the map, information is scarce early on so step 2 changes often. Having step 2 in place however makes for a pretermined decision to fall back on without any time loss. If step 1 yielded much then step 2 doesn't have to be as aggressive as I'm ahead of pace in my target damage zone. If step 1 yielded little then it'll have to be more aggressive as I now have to compensate. Overcompensating is easy however, and when doing so you need to recognise it as just that, and not teammates being bad. You don't get anything to learn out of your mistake if you blame it on somebody else. Step 3. Step 2 becomes the new step 1, and you think about step 3 the same way you did step 2. The only real difference is that more time has passed in game between them, so the urgency gets higher to hit your target game the longer you go. As you go further into the game the gameplay either ramps up in tempo or massively slows down depending on how the engagements went. A close game slows down, and recognising it as so will let you put the brakes and conserve your HP for enemy mistakes until the game is decided. A steamroll only ramps up in speed, so if you recognise it your need of staying ahead gets higher and higher with time so you adjust your aggression accordingly. Step 4. Use your remaining HP to get as good of a game as possible. I wait with step 4 until the game is noticeably won or lost. Good micromanagement skills net you better games during steamrolls against you with an extra shot or two. When the game is decided, you don't spare any expenses. Survival rate is arbitrary, and I can't recall the last time I saw a good player wish he had a 10% higher survival rate instead of a full shot extra in DPG. If you have a lot of HP to use at this stage then using it to outdamage your teammates is a good idea. When the game is decided, your own HP isn't more valuable than the damage anymore. If the game is won/lost in a seemingly decisive manner, the damage is all that you can get out of it. So squeeze the last drops of it instead of throwing a Hail Mary for the win that virtually never happens anyway. From personal experience I've found that the risky play to win the game is less beneficial to actually winning than playing for the damage. The amount of times you're able to farm your way back into an even HP pool safely are more frequent than winning a lost game off of a Rambo mission. A spot on the map generally takes 10-15 games for me to gauge if they're worthwhile or not, so this is quite a bit more of testing the waters than what people assume. The meta changes, so you can't have a fixed handbook for what to do on every map even if the initial deployment is similar. With it you find many solutions to the situation you're in right now, one you will be in later and eventually you come up with a solid enough answer to everything on that area of the map that you'll start consistently having good games throughout. The more the better honestly, but I generally play tanks with little to no armour, so my focus has is around having a good damage dealt/taken ratio. For people more seasoned in slower and armoured tanks this focus would be more on micromanagement and perfecting your initial deployment. Lower mobility means less ability to rotate, so getting better at prediction and foresight hold more value the lower mobility you have.
I talked a bit about emotion and how it's an obstacle for improvement, but there's still more to it to add. Shifting blame. I do this myself and almost every streamer I watch do it too, because accepting blame is difficult. You won't get anything out of a mistake if you blame it on anyone but yourself. It really is a lot of excusing misplay with platitudes in WoT. Arty, XVM and so on screwed your game over for taking an aggressive position. A lot of people write these things off as arty just being arty when in reality they were overreaching. I had this problem a lot when translating from the 3k to 4k barrier. You need to take a breath, get some perspective and look at the situation again. Did you really die because of some BS or were you actually misplaying? If it's BS you can let go of it as those things really are out of your control sometimes, but you're doing yourself a disservice if you let a mistake to learn from go by unnoticed. It's important to hold yourself accountable for your gameplay and if you really do want to improve this is a barrier that is a must to get over or it'll hinder all learning past this point in a fairly cerebral game that requires an understanding of the game that is too complex to put into proper words. There's a fairly good reason most people plateau at some point, and while that plateau is lower in general I can say with certainty that close to every (already) unicum hit a wall because of this. You are fairly confident in considering yourself decent at the game at this point, and your ego is in your way of improvement more than anything else.
Tilting's also very common and I envy the very few who seem to be totally unaffected by it. A good mindset really helps here, as you'll see some of the few people who can live off of WoT content that have to keep playing for their income learnt this too. Most people do have the ability to quit whenever their anger gets the better of them, but when you are literally doing your job while playing you don't. Tilting ruins the rest of the session unless you untilt which is easier said than done, so you do whatever you can from preventing tilt from happening from the start. As I said earlier you really have to give up your emotional investment in both performance and outcome. It just doesn't yield anything positive from a performance perspective. Finding a way to un-tilt is good though if you insist on keeping the session going. For me the session ends whenever I notice myself being emotionally invested, both good and bad. If I load up, have a killer game and felt like I really enjoyed that game then that game is it. I had fun, although for a very short time, and then this session won't be a pro-active one forward if I decide to keep on playing anyway. It's important to separate the two, especially when they're so closely linked together for elitists (performance and fun go very hand in hand for me). If you want to learn then emotions can't get the better of you. If you are having fun while playing that's great, but you're also zoning in and going autopilot which is the biggest single detriment to improvement there is. Unlearning auto-pilot is something that would do every online PC gamer a favour in their gameplay by forcing them to re-learn actively (and onward) instead of only learning periodically and then sticking to what they know. You can obviously enjoy yourself while being a productive learner, but it's much, much harder than it looks. If you want to become better at the game you have to learn, and "having to do" something generally makes it a lot less fun even if it's with your goal in mind.
My ways of keeping my head straight when I had a bad game, am dead and waiting for my tank that are pretty simple and easy to do. They do the trick for me most of the time, and when they don't I simply quit the session and come back at it with fresh eyes later. I generally only play 1 tank at a time, so this works well for me since I have a game to wait out before my next one. I generally try and watch all my games until they are completed because there's more to take from them after dying.
Timestamping - Track rotations and how long they take for other players. If you know how long a rotation takes you can estimate how much will happen in that timespan and how a situation will look when you get there. Just look at the timer at the start and then again when you have what you're looking for. If a rotation is 40-ish seconds, it is for example a perfect rotation for a BC25t after a clip. It matters more on autoloaders since you have a longer string of dead time without being able to deal damage. Knowing this in autoloaders make for much better predictability and an increase in effeciency. If your BC just went on reload and you see a rotation to make that could be good, you have the information on hand that you will be reloaded when getting there. You can deal damage right away. The time spent reloading was spent being useful because you rotated in a situation where you wouldn't deal any damage anyway. Track trading patterns too if you can. Some tanks are tricky to trade against because of their reload timers are off-sync compared to yours. Russian mediums for example can shoot 3 times at a Type 5 on reload before he's reloaded again. If you know this you know how hard you can pressure without risking taking HP back. If you are against a 5A in a russian medium however the reload is off-sync, as you'll be halfway through your third shell when he reloads his second. If he fires and pulls back there, you end up losing the trade at 980 to 640. This means that you don't really have a way to use your RoF as a means of engaging that 5A when there's cover involved. Find a different way or take the bad trade if there's no other way. This is where playing a single tank at a time starts benefitting as these things are much easier to keep track of comparing against the 1 gun (yours) than all tanks. You can do this for pretty much everything, but when playing tanks with higher alpha it matters as single shot trades get more beneficial. A JGPZ wins almost every 1 for 1 trade, so for it to take them makes more sense than a russian medium that will get outtraded. Backseat gaming. I do this to both streamers I watch and to team mates when I'm post mortem. It probably goes without saying that I don't actually tell them what I think, I just try to backseat them in my head to keep my thought process going to learn. You start noticing how big the gap is and how much skill expression there is in the game by doing this, as methodical decision making is so much easier to spot than someone auto-piloting. It's tricky because things don't play out like you want them to to check if you were right, but you can easily mess with ideas and try to emulate a reasonable outcome out of it. I've gotten everything from good openings (mostly from streamers though), to good counters and responses from random pubbies this way that I didn't think of. They probably didn't think of it either, but I saw it work out so I can make use of it. The biggest use of it is probably that I've identified a lot of bad choices and having been attentive during it you will end up avoiding a lot of mistakes you haven't made yet. WoT is a PvP game but I found that treating it as PvE makes more sense. One player and 14 bots against 15 bots make for a more sensible way of looking at performance which shifts the focus from a team effort to win, to a player effort in a numbers game. You are alone and your teammates are no good, now do your best anyway.
Consistency needs a solid foundation to build on. and for me this is the general thought process of how I did it. It takes long, but eventually it adds up to being important. The step from 4k to 5k and above was the biggest leap in gameplay for me, and easily the most difficult to approach. The difference between it and the previous level of gameplay was mostly consistency. I'd say that an easy way to put it was that now my median and average game are similar. This wasn't true before, were my median game was almost always higher than my average because of a game here and there going pretty bad. What working through this did for me was raising my average game up to my median, simply having less bad games while the ratio of acceptable to great games stayed the same.
This change isn't much more than 500 damage in tier 10s, but it still matters. For me it was the last bit to focus on in the game, and having experience with it - the improvement never ends. I see so many mistakes in my own play in hindsight that I'll keep working on to remove. To me the game isn't at its most competitive state right now, as a constant 3 arties make for much worse experiences in tier 10 where I generally reside so right now I can't say that my improvement has yielded very much recently, but it did lay the ground work for a better time to come. Consistency for example is the only reason I was able to 3mark the ISU-130. The tank on the EU server has 20 or so owners, with none of them playing actively. In attempting the mark over a year ago I just couldn't break past the 90 mark reliably. The damage requirement of a 3500 combined average was simply too high for me to keep with tank tank. I was the only one playing it until skill4ltu got his as well, so the EMA of the ISU-130 mark was set almost entirely by myself until then. We both wound up just waiting it out. The issue I had was with consistency yet again, as I was struggling with finding a way to get reliable damage out when your penetration is worst in tier. (It's a high DPM/alpha TD with okay gun handling and mobility, while having a non-existent gun arc and very low penetration for those of you who don't know of it). I eventually wound up getting it done, but after taking a very long break from it. Just like all of the challenging gun marks this game has to offer with their reward tanks the consistency is what breaks most players. Having to pressure the game for so much damage so reliably makes single mistakes ruin several hours of work, so you can't make mistakes at this level. A lot of players have been bashing their wall against the Chieftain mark lately, and it's because of the same thing. Consistency matters so much when you are basically forced to either have a good game or re-play your last 10 games getting back to where you were. That's what it did for me in the ISU at least, being more aware, having learned more and approaching the game from a PoV based in logic and reason rather than using your gut and autopilot made the push.
There's plenty of small pointers here and there to improve your game, but IMO this is the big one that sets you up well. If you have the work ethic to keep learning, you'll become more consistent. Eventually more consistent starts meaning better.
MeVersusPing reacted to Liberty75 in The Case Against The 3/5/7 Match Maker (READY)
The Case Against The 3/5/7 Match Maker (updated with a 400 game sample size in each MM)
A few months ago I studied the changes to the match maker (MM) implemented in patch 9.18 and noted that it pushed players into more matches as a low tier vehicle, as would logically happen with a template that is built like a pyramid with more tanks at the bottom than the top. Initially I was neutral about this change and was only curious about how it would affect the game in general and more specifically me as a player.
After a few months of playing and studying the effects of this new system I find it to be an overall negative to the game in general and a frustrating bore to me as a player. I wanted to make my viewpoint about this issue clear from the start so that the player reading this who is invested in defending Wargaming's new system can take a moment to pause and consciously listen to my arguments with an open mind instead of becoming defensive as you read. This is difficult for most of us to accomplish, including myself, as our egos are involved, but I am hopeful that some readers will overcome this hurdle.
My arguments for removing the 3/5/7 template system are straightforward and backed up with numbers. My main points are that the system failed to achieve its stated goal and that the tradeoffs we surrendered to get this system were not worth giving up for what we received in exchange for them. We lost some obvious and some not so obvious aspects of the game when WG implemented this policy.
As a side note, I will use "3/5/7 template" to describe the new system even though it also has other variations (such as 5/10 and all the same tier matches) since that is the name WG has given it and since most matches are in the 3/5/7 format during game play.
As I said above, I was open minded about the new template when it arrived in 9.18. It was bundled with a lot of large changes if you remember. In the same patch we also received tier 10 light tanks, reusable consumables and vast artillery changes (stun effect, limited to 3 per side, and removal of artillery from platoons). WG didn't exactly sneak the 3/5/7 template into the game since it was a featured change in their communications to the player base, but since it was part of a larger bundle of changes, I think the player base noticed it less than the other changes and they simply believed the company line that the new template would bring more balance to matches by ensuring an abundance of bottom tier tanks. How would a higher amount of bottom tier tanks in a match create more balanced games? To quote WG in their 9.18 Update video, they said "this will guarantee that you find your target," and this is the only reasoning they gave to us in North America (as far as I know) on how flooding the bottom tiers of a match would balance teams and make more competitive games when this change came out. People have since claimed that they made the change to help weaker players by giving them more targets to shoot at. While this may or may not be true, the original stated purpose of this system to create more competitive matches has not materialized to any significant degree. By their own standards, this template was a failure and that alone should be enough to reverse their decision, but don't hold your breath.
In an article titled "Matchmaking in 9.19.1 and the Road Ahead" published on WG's North America website on June 28, 2017, they have doubled down on the 3/5/7 template and have stated that it is successful. How did they come to this conclusion? They arrived at it by reading forum comments about how much happier players are with the new MM. After reading this statement, I had two issues with it. First, only a small minority of players actually post on the forums and the players that consistently post on the forums generally tow the company line on most issues for whatever reason. And second, the weaker players that post seem to be happier because they supposedly have more targets to shoot at in matches. It is the side effect of the 3/5/7 template that players are happy with and not the main objective that was stated by WG.
In that same article mentioned above, WG is now pushing the 3/5/7 template more on allowing players to contribute rather than on balancing games as they did back in April. They have shifted their emphasis. They write, "remember the less-than-desirable scenario of playing Tier VIII and getting matched against Tier X? Now think how it feels in the game as it stands today. Having a few top-tiers on the other camp no longer makes you question the point of battling." (Apparently they have missed or ignored the angry complaints on the forums about the new system and being bottom tier all the time in tier 8 matches). So WG has changed their stance from balancing teams to allowing players to contribute more as a bottom tier tank. This shift in emphasis is rather peculiar, but in their defense, they are trying to sell us an idea in this case and a product in general and they will do it however they can.
Now if we look at the unintended (or intended?) side effect of this 3/5/7 template change, that of helping weaker players as a bottom tier tank by giving them more targets than they had before 9.18, it could still be a good change and not a total failure. The perception that many have now is that players always have targets to shoot at and players feel that they can always make a difference in this new system. That is what WG told us and that is what they believe. But is it true that these weaker players are now better off or does it even matter if they are better off if the overall gaming experience is being ruined for the greater population?
Let's take a closer look at what happened when they implemented the 3/5/7 template.
The biggest and most obvious change was the frequencies of being selected top tier, middle tier, or bottom tier in a match. To get information for this I used WoT Replay Analyzer to inspect 400 games from tier 5 to 8 before and after the 9.18 update. I excluded light tanks and tanks what get special tiering. Otherwise, I selected the matches in four separate 100 game periods from before 9.18 to collect that part of the data set. I took an old sample of 100 games that I had under the 9.18 update and added another 300 games from under the 9.19 update to also give some diversity to that sample. Due to the new system having 6 likely breakdowns instead of the old 3, I combined those 6 into 3 to match the old system.* For top tier, I combined 3/5/7 and 5/10 matches as a top tier. For middle tier, I combined middle tier (3/5/7) and all the same tier matches since they were closest to each other in dynamics. For bottom tier, I combined bottom tier games in the 3/5/7 and 5/10 formats. Here is the breakdown of what I found: top, middle, and low tier in the old system were 36.0%, 35.5%, and 28.5% respectively and in the 3/5/7 template system they were 7.0%, 36.0%, and 57.0% respectively.
Before I gathered the data I guessed that the old system would break down into about a 1/3 for each tier. This perception was wrong on my part. The middle tier games were slightly greater at about 36% and my memory of being top and bottom tier were also off by a little. I was shocked that bottom tier only occurred 28.5% of the time. I thought it would have been a little more than that. This shows how faulty our memories can sometimes be.
As regards the 3/5/7 template, I already had a good idea of what those numbers would be since I had studied them already and posted them here a few months ago. My greatest curiosity was in gathering the second set of 3/5/7 numbers (another 300 games) and whether or not they would still mirror the old numbers. They generally did, except that there were more overall bottom tier matches, but mainly in the 5/10 set.
Those numbers essentially speak for themselves in what we had to give up to get this 3/5/7 system. The general player lost almost 30 points of top tier matches and gained about 30 points in bottom tier matches. If the general player base was better off with these changes, then maybe it would be a good tradeoff to have this 3/5/7 template, which leads us to the question: is the general player base better off being a bottom tier tank 57% of the time now as compensation for more bottom tier targets in those matches, and are the weaker players, the real supposed beneficiaries of this policy, even better off now (keeping in mind that being bottom tier was their struggle in the first place)?
The general understanding of this issue by weak players can be summed up in a recent quote I have from a response I received on the official game forums. It was written by Pipinghot and he said, "players have been complaining for years that they don't like being bottom tier when there are only 2 or 3 tanks on each team that are bottom tier. Lots of people have been saying for a long time that bottom tier would be more fun if there were more tanks on both teams that are bottom tier, and this would allow all of the bottom tier players to be more relevant to their battles, and be able to contribute more to their teams."
I think he did a good job of summarizing the concerns of weak players. While he is correct in understanding why a player would struggle as a group of 2 or 3 bottom tier tanks, he is misguided in thinking that the old system had a great frequency of matches like that and also that the current system is better for weak players. It is at this point that you may say, "now hold on Liberty! Bottom tier players are guaranteed at least 7 tanks and that is much better than being in a pathetic group of 2 or 3. Of course the new system is better for these players!"
If those are your thoughts, Pipinghot would support you as he added to his post saying, " Many (many, many) people hated the old system that limited your ability to help your team when you were bottom tier, that problem has been significantly improved now that there are more middle and bottom tier tanks."
Let's see if this perception that weak players or players in general are better off now or has WG pulled the wool over our eyes.
When I analyzed those 400 pre-9.18 games for information, I also recorded the team breakdowns and my positional tier. This took some time, but I think it was worth it. I wasn't sure what I was going to find either. Perhaps players were getting crushed as bottom tiers before this 3/5/7 template and I was all wrong about this.
What did I find in those 400 games taken from tier 5-8 tanks I was in? Well, first I should define what I was looking for. I sought out battles that had 5 or more top tier tanks and 3 or less bottom tier tanks, as defined by Pipinghot. I chose 5 or more top tier tanks since 3 is apparently the current magic number and I figured that 1 more wouldn't be much of a change from 3. With those parameters, out of 400 matches, I found 102 instances of these horrible match ups. 102 out of 400 is an alarming number too, but before we faint, we need to remember our rough frequency breakdown of 35% top, 35% middle, and 30% bottom. Out of that 102 we would probably see only 30% of those matches as a bottom tier. After taking that 30% into account, we get 13 matches. So out of 400 matches, players would get horrible matches about 31 times, which equates to 8% of our matches. Although, after getting these numbers, I realized that the more high tier tanks in a match, the less likely it would be to get stuck as a bottom tier tank. That 30% of bottom tier matches is the wrong percent to use to find out the frequency of horrible match-ups. So now I instead individually counted the actual matches that I was bottom tier in that set of 102. To my own shock, I came up with 6 matches that I was bottom tier out of that 102. So out of 400 games, I was put in a horrible match 6 times (that is 1.5%). Even if I were lucky, the likelihood of someone getting a horrible match would probably still be very low, probably no more than 5% with the worst luck.
If you think the criteria I used is too extreme and I should have broaden the numbers, I did. I looked at matches that had 5 or more top tier tanks and now 5 or less bottom tier tanks. This criteria gave me 185 matches out of the 400 and I was bottom tier a total of 29 times in these matches, only slightly over 7% of the time.
In general, if I look at the frequency of matches that had 3 or less top tier tanks, it came to 18.5 %. Matches with 4 or 5 top tier tanks was 37.0%. Added together, 55.5% of the old matches had 5 or less top tier tanks, a decent majority. Matches with 6 or 7 top tier tanks had a frequency of 30.75% and matches with 8 or 9 top tier tanks was 10.25%. Matches with 10 or more top tier tanks was at 3.5% (and of that 3.5%, 4 matches, more than a 1/4 of them didn't contain any bottom tier tanks).
Now I ask again, are we helping players by making them bottom tier tanks significantly more of the time because they had bad experiences about 2% of the time in the past (or even 7% of the time!)? We must remember when addressing this question that most of the bottom tier matches in the old MM had a good mix of tanks already without a 3/5/7 template. It was only a tiny amount of matches, as defined by Pipinghot, that players struggled with. And if weak players struggled with 4 or 5 top tier tanks in the old system then what difference would the new system make for them? They will actually be struggling more because they see bottom tier matches 57% of the time now instead of about 30%. These weak players and the player base in general would be better off having 35% top tier matches instead of 7% as they can control their fate more in those matches. In top tier matches players have more armor, hit points, firepower, etc. over their opponents. When we strip them of these top tier matches, they are not better off, but worse off.
While being bottom tier 57% of the time is bad enough, we also sacrificed some other more subtle characteristics of the game when we moved to this new MM. These tradeoffs may concern players that otherwise don't care about this issue on a top or bottom tier perspective. These other issues are more about aesthetics, but still affect our interaction with the game greatly.
One new trend is that the current system becomes tedious after a while. We are constantly thrown into the same match-ups game after game. We get either 3/5/7, 5/10, or all the same tier. I have seen other variations than these only 3 times in over 1000 games, so these 3 are basically all that is expected. In a game that is repetitive already, we don't need mechanics that make it worse. This system encourages a boring environment. The old MM, with its flaws, was able to create over 130 different team lineups in a 3 tier pool of tanks (tier 8, 7, and 6 for example). When I did my research on pre-9.18 games, I identified 114 unique team lineups out of that 200 games. There was a certain beauty in seeing that mosaic of different teams listed across my Excel spreadsheet. There were matches that were 1/8/6, 2/10/2, 5/3/7, 8/1/6, 12/3/0, and everything in-between. After 9.18, in those 400 games, I saw 3 different team lineups over and over. Maybe it is just me, but I find this to be on the lame side. They took a dynamic way of making teams and made it strictly uniform now with no chances of an exciting or odd lineup of tanks. Flat out, this is boring.
On top of being dull, the new 3/5/7 template takes an element of chance out of the game too. I find that as much as I dislike random number generation (RNG) consciously, humans have a subconscious affinity for games of chance and keep coming back to them. There is an element of excitement when you get what you want, whether it be a top tier match or you high roll a Skorpion G with an HE round. It keeps us coming back for more despite the disappointments in-between our triumphs as long as the odds aren't that bad. That aspect of the MM is now unfortunately gone.
Another issue that we have is also connected with the new monotonous format that we went over above. WG is "dumbing down" the game. In the article on the MM mentioned earlier, there is a line that caught my eye on this topic. They wrote, "It’s much easier now to analyze the power balance and the situation before the countdown is over, meaning there’s time to think over the enemies’ moves and plan your own." I'm not sure about every player out there, but this was not an issue for players that cared about doing better. I never had a big problem with this skill in the past once I consciously tried to master it. I recall watching the old DeathsArrow video series called "WoT I'm Thinking" and listening to him go over the team lineup and that in turn prompted me to do the same thing and improve as a player. When a player decides that they want to get better, they will figure it out without the help of WG. Also, WG should have higher expectations for its customers than what they wrote there. They make it seem like players weren't capable of doing this in the past. And the players that didn't analyze the teams in the past will doubtfully all of a sudden start to do it now. The most helpful tool they could give, and did give to the player base was the list of tank classes at the top of the screen which is not dependent on a 3/5/7 template.
These issues in the new system, being mundane, taking away an element of chance from the game, and dumbing it down, are secondary to my main concern about tiering and how that affects the player base, but they are still serious concerns. Many of us have enjoyed playing this game for years and I would hate for us to be pushed away from it because it became boring due to a failed MM change.
The new 3/5/7 template isn't helping the vast majority of players in the game and it is leading to frustration and creating a dull playing environment. Many players seem to have been given a false impression by WG and the player base is falling prey to the myths created that support the company line. WG wants the players to think that this new system is a runaway success. Perceptually to some players it is, but in reality It isn't. This system hasn't fixed the problem of team balance that it was stated to have been created for and it also doesn't help bottom tier players. The old system usually had a good spread of tanks in each battle and the few battles that didn't should have been bearable compared with the current 57% of bottom tier matches we now have.
The old MM certainly needed to be altered. The old MM needed to be tweaked to make sure that there were the same amount of top, middle, and bottom tier tanks on each side, and also to make sure that each side had a similar amount of tank types (TD, Arty, etc.) per tier, with a +1/-1 differential for variety and to cut down on MM queue time. It also needed a cap on top tier tanks in tier 1 and 2 battles to help protect the new players a little, but beyond that it was pretty good and dynamic compared to what we have now. These changes are simple and would please most of the player base, if not all of it.
To conclude, I will leave you with two quotes that are related to this topic. One is from a great player, LemmingRush. He recently stated in one of his videos after he was destroyed at the end of a difficult match, "so when you're bottom tier like this, it's very difficult to actually come out on top, but you just have to understand that, you have to go in into battle with the expectation that you are not going to win and still understand that and be okay with it. Because when you're bottom tier, you know, you're bottom tier."
The other quote is from, well, a lesser great player, Claus Kellerman (who essentially represents the average Joe World of Tanker). He said recently when ranting about the old preferential matchmaking premium tanks (IS-6, KV-5, etc) that are getting into too many bottom tier or same tier matches and only seeing tier 8 and 9 tanks now, "shouldn't you be able to make some credits with your IS-6 or KV-5 without being frustrated as f**k, just getting owned by every f**king tank in the game now and having guns that can't do s**t and facing tier 9s and 8s. Like what happened to the preferential matchmaking? What happened to playing against tier 8s and 7s and 6s? I don't know."
Constantly being bottom tier is becoming frustrating for many old players and especially our new players. Let's get it back down to 30% bottom tier matches and bring top tier matches back up to 35% so more players can enjoy the game again.
* The complete numbers for the 3/5/7 template broke down as follows: Top Tier 3/5/7: 4.25%; Top Tier 5/10: 2.75; Middle Tier: 18.5%; Same Tier: 17.5%; Bottom Tier 5/10: 12.25%; and Bottom Tier 3/5/7: 44.75%.
Appendix: Other charts I later created with the data
A more specific chart of player position frequency.
Frequency of top tier tanks in a match, but with a players percent of games in those matches from their total matches.
These next two are the amount of games in the 400 game sample that the
players were bottom tier in a select number group of bottom tier tanks in the match.
One chart is the exact number, and the second chart is that percent out of all of a players games.
MeVersusPing reacted to Liberty75 in Hopefully Strict Template MM Will Die Soon
Ever since I started researching and comparing the previous MM with the current MM, it seems more and more obvious that strict templates, like our current 3/5/7, 5/10, and all the same tier matches, need to be removed. I have campaigned hard in the NA forums, posted an article here in the early stages of my efforts, and recently spent time on the EU forums. My foreign language skills are non-existent so I am unable to communicate on the RU and SEA platforms. Aside from replying to posts and the occasional fact check on people when they claim odd things, I think this is the end of the road for the campaign. The only other thing I can think of now is to use google translate and send an actual snail mail letter to the WG HQ. I just fear it would read something like this: "Containers need to be evenly given out at different floors so the game has more options," and they will just scratch their heads. Withstanding that, I can only hope that WG will remove these strict template matches soon and restore a match system that has as much variety and interest as the previous system with a few balancing tweaks.
I am still optimistic that they will change it overall. The NA Forums are mixed with players of different opinions, but WG tends to ignore the NA server anyway. Here on the now quiet WotLabs, players seem indifferent to the current MM. I'm guessing that is because this community has a high level of skill and easily adapts to the changes and some may even like that it is easier to farm damage under the current system. But again, I don't know if WG monitors this forum frequently. On the EU forums, there seems to be a super-majority of players that want the MM removed. That is a good sign. They have a population WG respects and I get the feeling that their forum admins have good communication with the parent company and that those sentiments will be passed along. The recent spat of content creators criticizing the MM is also heartening.
Before I scale back, I'd like to post the information that I have gathered over the past few months, some charts that go along with it in case anyone wants to use them for their own efforts or information, and some sentiments to tie up any loose ends.
When I gathered information about the old MM to compare to the new MM I was a little surprised at how wrong my memory was when it came to bottom tier matches. I could have sworn my bottom tier matches would have been more challenging than what I was looking at in my research under the old system. Since I was only looking at 100 games at first, I figured the sample wasn't big enough and it was skewed. Then as I gathered another 100 games from my own replays, and then 200 more games from my friend, I began to see a pattern and that in fact my memory was wrong. As I contemplated this I then remembered that our memories and perceptions are faulty. We tend to recall outstanding events more than common events. So while I was playing thousands of games, the best or the worst matches were the ones that would stand out the most in my mind. This is probably why so many players are paranoid about being in a small group of bottom tier tanks, when in reality it didn't happen that often.
Another thing that became visible to me from doing this research was that we formerly had a cornucopia of different match-ups. In that 400 game sample, there were 114 unique matches. Now that number would be smaller with the new light tank system that we have today, but it would still be much MUCH more than what we have in our current set of three strict templates (3/5/7, etc.). The variety of games and balance of top, middle, and bottom tier matches stands out like a beacon of excitement compared to the drab experience we are left with presently. Once you become conscious of these things, it is hard not to notice them. I was smacked in the face with reality and have cursed myself with this knowledge and I apologize for ruining anyone else's perception of the the game now. That isn't my general intention. My goal is to have this MM changed back to what it was, or something similar to what it was as had been proposed on the NA and EU forums.
For anyone that wants this information, here is a link to the google doc where I transferred it. It is a copy of the pertinent information from my excel spreadsheets, and while I am confident that the main part is correct, there could be an error or two at the bottom with the layout of matches. The figures above them are correct, but I am not checking the 400 different matches to make sure I copied every single one correctly. So forgive me if there is an error there. IF there is an error, the chart above the matches is correct and I miscopied the match(s) below it. Please note the difference in top tier matches between me and Macduff48 under the current system. He platoons a lot. For the periods I gathered from myself, I rarely platooned. Together, they give a decent rough average for most players in the game whether they platoon or not. Partial top or bottom tier matches refers to 5/10 matches or +1/-1 matches in the old MM. For a more specific description of the data collection, see "The Case Against the 3/5/7 Match Maker" article. I updated it recently and I hope I converted all the numbers correctly. If something doesn't make sense, please let me know.
The impetus for starting this research was to see how many top tier tanks were in matches because players kept telling me the old MM was full of games with enormous amounts of top tier tanks. From there it grew to other things, but you will see the top tier tank emphasis in there.
Here are the charts I created with the information to make it easier for people to understand the information. Feel free to copy them for your own use.
First, here is a general comparison followed by a more specific comparison of the frequency of Top, Middle, and Bottom tier matches.
The "partial bottom" for the old MM was included in the Middle Tier numbers on the first chart.
(Partial top and bottom refers to the 5/10 format in the new MM and +1/-1 in the old)
Here are two graphics on top tier tanks in matches overall, and then with the
percent that players were bottom tier in that range out of all of their games.
Here are some charts that show the amount of bottom tier tanks in the bottom tier matches from the sample studied.
The first one is the raw numbers from the 114 bottom tier matches and the second one is the percent of those raw numbers.
This last graphic was created to show the drastic decline in variety. Perhaps it isn't as important, but I will include it anyway.
Thank you for your patience if you made it this far. No matter which side of the debate you were on, all civil input was appreciated.
MeVersusPing reacted to Assassin7 in Whats the point of playing Tier 10?
Tier 10 is the most competitive tier, the most challenging, its where play styles and differences in tanks are most prevalent, and it takes the most skill to do well in.
as a competitive player, thats what makes it fun.
I do enjoy going back to tier 5-7 every now and then, but it gets boring quickly for a few reasons: first, its too easy. I could farm in my T67 all day every day and get 6K WN8 easy. same with my Cromwells or my T29 etc. but doing that is boring. Its just too easy and farming newbies and idiots gets boring after a while.
second: theres more RNG, mainly gun handling and accuracy. its often way worse down at lower tier. tanks are less accurate, and have worse overall gun handling and take forever to aim. that gets really annoying. everything at tier 10 is much tighter.
Thirdly: no bottom tier. getting stuck in tier 8 games in a tier 6, and tier 10 games in a tier 8 gets tiring for everyone. playing tier 10 avoids that.
Fourthly: less Bullshit OP tanks or stupid game balance ideas. Okay, tier 10 has stupid shit like the STRV or the 183s and such. but tier 8 now has the Defender/Patriot/Liberte/Skorpion etc. tier 7 has retarded tanks like the E25. tier 6 gets the now gloriously OP Type 64, tier 5 has the Lef18 bullshit. etc etc etc.
well, those are at least my reasons for tier 10. I enjoy tier 9 a lot as well, and personally I consider tier 9 to currently be the best balanced tier in the game (lets see how the next patch changes that)
Also, I can make money just fine at tier 10. also also STB-1 is orgasmic and I literally cannot stop playing it even after 1700 games.
MeVersusPing reacted to SchnitzelTruck in 9.20 Armor Changes
Was thinking of making a 9.20 model changes post since one hasn't been made. I'm not gonna bother including low tier garbage/arty for obvious reasons.
Used 220 pen because of the shit ton of defenders and other tier8 tanks with around that level of pen. Not that it matters since this tank's glory days were 4 years ago. 181 pen pic is against itself.
The HD model isn't larger, they just aren't zoomed at the same level because I'm incompetent.
Upper plate buffed to around 170 effective flat on. Turret is a jumbled mess as always.
Gun mantlet hole is now 260mm effective on level ground instead of ~120. Area where mantlet overlaps turret completely impenetrable to everything. (600+)
Yellow spots on turret are around 250-270 effective vs apcr
Red areas are 270+. Orange 240-250. Yellow 210-220. Green on turret is 200ish.
Nothing reliable, but youll definitely get some troll bounces. Yellow areas are 250-270 effective. Red areas are 300+
Really only the mantlet and roof changed. Roof is now 45mm instead of 30mm. The turret cheeks were buffed to the point where tier8 meds and LT's have a chance to bounce but that's about it.
AMX30 proto received the same roof/mantlet buff, however the mantlet is only 255 effective instead of 305.
Area on both AMX30's where the mantlet overlaps the turret is impenetrable to basically everything except tier10 TD prem ammo.
I'm only mentioning this because ive done it before, hatch is now 100 thick and not penetrable by T49 HE
Machine gun port and vision port on type5 are now 260 and 250mm respectively (down from 270). 240 and 230 for the Type4 (down from 250)
Ass armor (apart from rear tumor because reasons) nerfed from 150 to 105mm. Which is an effectiveness ranging from 107mm to 130mm
100mm gun removed, 75mm is now the top gun.
Top speed nerfed from 40kmh to 25kmh.
Turret front/ flat plate behind the boobies buffed from 75mm to 125mm. Upper plate buffed from 75mm to 85mm. Lower plate remains 75mm. Boobies are 115mm on the front and 75-100 on the sides.
Upper plate is 125 effective. Flat plate behind boobies is 128. Turret is 140. Boobies are 110-115, red area is 150-ricochet. Mantlet is 125mm
Just don't even bother with the turret face, hatch or gtfo. Its basically the current obj140 turret with larger hatches.
Roof buffed from 37mm and 30mm to 75mm and 45mm.
T-44 and T-44-100:
Mantlets/turret front buffed from 120mm to 190mm. Turret side armor buffed from 100mm to 130mm. Roof buffed from 15mm to 35mm.
Mantlet/turret front buffed from 180 to 200.
All its spaced armor zones on the hull were replaced with armor correlating to the thickness of the surrounding hull armor (40mm sides, 60mm on the angled front). No more getting saved from yolo T49's, arty side shots, and type4/5s.
Large 50mm zone on upper plate buffed to 60mm (same as surrounding area). No more getting overmatched by large calibers at stupid angles.
MeVersusPing reacted to Android25 in Tier 8 MT/HT MM statistical analysis from reddit
Besides the fact that his sample size is far too small (150 games for HT's and 90 games for TD's wtf is that), I think he's drawing the wrong reasoning for the conclusion of the data. He claims that all tanks should have a 20% chance of being top tier, which would make sense in a perfect system as 3/15 is 20%. However, we know that tier 10 and tier 8 are the most heavily played tiers in the game at any given time. I think you would be very hard pressed to find any given time where the proportion of tier 6 tanks was 2.33x that of tier 8 tanks, or even the proportion of tier 7 tanks 1.4x that of tier 8 tanks.
According to what WG has claimed, the system attempts to make 3/5/7 games as often as it possibly can, unless it is unable to produce this scenario, in which case it will start creating 5/10 games and then just whatever it can throw together that follows the tank MM rules in order to find you a game quickly.
The simple fact is that there aren't enough tier 6's or 7's playing the game for the system to make as many 3/5/7 games with tier 8 on the top as it can with tier 9 or 10 on the top. Because tier 8 is one of the most played tiers and unlike tier 10, can be bottom tier, it just makes sense statistically that tier 8 in general would have a higher probability of being the majority of the team, and with the mm's current attempt to make the majority of the tanks lower tier, tier 8 tanks tend to not be top tier.
The other conclusion he draws is that HT's are being treated differently than TD's because, based on his data, it's obvious that TD's appear as the top tier more often. I think that this also has to do with uneven distributions within the MM itself rather than WG specifically punishing heavy tanks. Just as more players tend to play tier 10 and tier 8 than other tiers, more players tend to play HT's than they do TD's. The patch notes specifically state that "The matchmaker considers the number of light tanks and tank destroyers." That generally means that the number of TD's on either side should be +/- 1 of each other but tier usually isn't accounted, and that would be where most of the skewing is going on. Any TD that gets on one side is almost guaranteed to pull another TD into the match to put onto the other side.
I think it's likely that TD's tend to get into the more prime 3/5/7 (Which initially would be pretty evenly distributed until the MM runs out of tier 6 and 7 tanks) games because there are fewer of them than the flood of HT's, and then once all the prime spots are taken, they still have a better chance of getting into the 5/10 MM (which would favor tier 9 and tier 8 vs tier 8 and tier 7 based on tier distribution, especially later when all the tier 7 tanks are used up) before all the rest of the HT's and just a few TD's are simply dumped into whatever the MM can come up with (Which is why in his data HT's got single tier MM more than twice as often as TD's did per game).
TLDR: Tier 8 HT's get shafted more often than Tier 8 TD's not because WG did something to specifically punish tier 8 HT's, but because there are generally more of them than any other specific class/tier in the MM queue at any given time and so they tend to get thrown into whatever the MM can come up with rather than WG's "fair distribution".
MeVersusPing reacted to GehakteMolen in Patch 9.19
Wait, those bond crap can also be used for cw / random battles? i assumed it would be only for the game mode itself
If WG is forcing us to play fucking ranked shit** in order to play on equal terms in randoms, they can fuck off, infact, playing ranked battles to get super-food or super-equipment, so you can use super-food in randoms would be 10x worse pay to win as gold ammo for gold ever was, i rather see this bond shit only for gold in store, as as a fucking reward for a stupid game mode...
I guess i should just quit then, anyone wanna buy account? i have everything unlocked, 80 million credits, 150 tanks, including 10 or so t8 prems and about 25 tier 9, 20 tier 10 tanks (everything crewed wihth good crews and equipment) + thousands of prem consumables, spare guns and engines and dozens of equipment in depot (total value 40 million i guess)
**: this game mode WILL suck balls, ranked battles means equal skilled player which means super mega camp, the only reason randoms work is because people make mistakes and dont have patience, if you get 30 players with patience in a single game, its gonna be fucking awefull, JUST like CW is fucking goddam awefull...
MeVersusPing reacted to Frenzier in Epic arty shots (pre 9.18) 2h+
Over the last 65 days i uploaded everyday my best shots with arty as i attempted to 3 mark as many as i could before patch 9.18 hit, its a total of 2h7m, in the process i 3 marked all german arty, tier 5 to 8 russian and last one on last day CGC.
So if you happen to enjoy witnessing some epic arty shots, you will find inside stuff like a full hp maus going to garage with 1 clip from a bat chat arty(no fire or ammo rack), a full HP IS-4 going to garage with a single shot from a tier 7 arty(+ a bit of fire) and a grille(tier 5 arty) penetrating a T34 at 800m on the turret in "arty safe" locations among other tier 8 heavys... 99% of the shots are with HE.
I will continue to play arty, main focus 3 marks atm. I stream hopefully everyday here https://www.twitch.tv/frenzierr
MeVersusPing reacted to kolni in Guide to 3 Marks of Excellence
goddammit forum why won't you let me spoiler -__________- mods pls fix
I decided to write something up since I haven't done it in so long. Anyway, today I hit 100 Marks of Excellence obtained (78 on my own account as of now) so I've got some experience in doing this. I'm not CarbonWard but I'll do my best to explain it.
So first off to how they actually work (somewhat): https://console.worldoftanks.com/en/content/about/game-guides/marks-of-excellence/
The formula is not released anywhere (speculation in another thread here but nothing conclusive) but the console forums did release an explanation of an EMA:
"The damage/assist damage you earn after each battle will be compared against the average for that tank across all battles from the past 14 days. If your average is higher the required percentage of the global average, you'll earn a mark! For example:
Suppose the top damage + assist damage for the IS-6 per match is 7,000 points. To get the first Mark of Excellence, you need higher than 65% of that, which would be 4,550. 85% is 5,950 and 95% is 6,650.
Remember, it's the average of damage dealt + assisted damage!
Marks of Excellence are calculated by using an EMA (Exponential Moving Average), and each tank has its own EMA. We compare your EMA against the highest average damage for all players using that same tank during the time period to determine if you qualify for a Mark.
Here are some examples of how your performance will affect your EMA. We used a 100-battle period so you can get a better idea of how your EMA will increase/decrease. Let's see how these players' performances determine how many games it takes for them to reach an EMA of 1,000.
Example 1: A player who is not very consistent; their performance is all over the place. It took them around 87 games. Example 2: A player who is consistently putting up average Damage+Assist Damage games. It took them ~67 games. Example 3: A player who is consistently playing high Damage+Assist Damage games. It took them ~33 games. WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?
Using an EMA prevents players from earning Marks just by buying a new tank and playing one or two good games. If we allowed that to happen, Marks would have little meaning. As you can see, players start out with a low EMA and must build it up over time by performing well. The better you perform on a consistent basis, the faster your EMA will go up and the quicker you get a Mark. If you perform poorly, your EMA drops. However, poor games do not affect your EMA as much as a good game will improve it.
Depending on your skill level, at some point your EMA will be equal to your average Damage+Assist Damage. For example, if your EMA is 1,200, at 80% in the Damage Standings, and you continue to do an average Damage+Assist Damage of 1,200, your EMA and Damage standing will not increase or decrease. So if you want to get to that 85% level to earn your second MoE, you will need to start doing more than 1,200 Damage+Assist Damage in order to keep raising your score. "
^ This is all actual information published regarding the marks. And as previously debated it's weighted against an average and not against other players "good games", or "2 games removes 1 bad game" that's been mentioned a lot everywhere.
I've also done some rough testing since I've 3marked several of the same tanks (7 E 50s) and three of them were from 0 games. What I managed to gather was that the EMA seems to favour consistency over spikes in damage output. At 60 games two of the E 50s were at 87% with rougly the same damage outputs but one had 257 more spotting on average, but also a lower survival rate (higher derp ratio) which leads me to believe it's been less consistent. While a difference of 257 combined doesn't seem like much it's still simply a higher damage output per game and I can't think of anything else but consistency actually being a very relevant factor. (I don't have permission to post screenshots from the accounts played so if anyone can find someone with similar stats to yours beneath 100 games or simply test this for yourself it'd be great)
With that out of the way we can proceed to the actual 3 marking.
I won't go into how to achieve consistency because that's just extremely hard to put into words besides the vague terms as "playing safe" etc but there are things I generally do to maximize my combined outputs:
MeVersusPing reacted to JenkaTamar in 9.17 overmatch mechanic changes
I thought this was the metagame forum where we discuss actual effects and not explosively whine. (not limited to wot labs but I'm a bit surprised to see it here)
The Corollary to "Now some thin armor that was unrealistically penetrable will now not be" is "There are now previously unpenetrable plates that CAN be penetrated". Yes, fine the spots you've carefully learned and exploited for easy damage are going away. What are the new opportunities? Which Tanks had 51 MM armor at 70 degrees that would auto-bounce your shots before but now you'll pen with ease? There are a plethora of tanks where currently a 90mm gun won't penetrate at 70 degrees but will now be vulnerable at up to 76 degrees. We just need to find them. Note a 50mm plate is more vulnerable to a 90 mm gun with the new rules (pen checks up to 72 degrees instead of 70) than it is currently.
I see a lot of people complain about unintended consequences but if the issues are this blatantly obvious I fail to see how they can be unintended. They mentioned in the update that it's based on an algorithm, not a fixed set of steps so, a 50mm plate is penetrable by a 150mm gun at 76 deg, What is the effect of a 150 mm gun on a 30 MM plate? maybe it's closer to 80 degrees?
It's entirely possible that this is a wash, or actually a direct nerf to a pile of vehicles armor. I don't know, it doesn't seem like anybody else does either,
There are more than negative effects to this change lets find them.
People are always asking for games to "Buff not Nerf" Sounds like a very interesting idea
MeVersusPing reacted to kolni in Mouse sensitivity and FOV
Proper settings for all WoT related things:
Max Draw Range and Terrain Quality as much as you can, Tank Quality is also recommended since more defined tanks are easier to determine where to aim at.
Minimum on Flora Density and Motion Blur, remove grass in sniper mode and that's pretty much it.
FoV should be 120. Better FoV = better indirect awareness without having to watch the minimap.
Change the colour filter to deeper colours for better terrain visuals, I personally think the game just simply looks better but it's easier to see without a lot of input
Other stuff is by choice really, they won't help you necessarily but
After I did this I felt like my mouse sensitivty was high (FOV at 120 meant targets became smaller which meant harder to aim), changed to 800 dpi and really low sense in game (6 "ticks" on everything from 0) and at first it was a bit annoying, but it only took a day until I got used to it and muscle memory already started to kick in. People keep using their wrists to aim which is all kinds of wrong. Use your arm, muscle memory works better on bigger motions and use wrists for fine tuning. This will allow you to aim way way way smoother and faster in the end. In succession to this I'd turn all unnecessary things off. Now if you run lower sensitivity there is absolutely no need for x16 zoom or more, turn it off right away. Consider that the further you zoom in, the more tunnelvisioned you are (literally).
I personally always keep my sniper mode at x8 and even unbound the scroll wheel from being able to go into sniper mode and just use shift instead. This is just a preference however, but doing so keeps my FoV outside of sniper at max without having to actually scroll back out from x8 (this saves time and thusly awareness improves) so I can just tab out of sniper right away after every shot and see what's happening and back in right away. I know many people actually use the scroll wheel and it's just preference, but the example is more of how this all goes hand in hand with a low mouse sensitivity.
ABSOLUTELY NO OPTICAL EFFECT IN SNIPER MODE
For the gameplay itself:
If you are not absolutely sure you understand map control and vision, turn assault and encounter off. They are great but they require more skill than standard battles and will probably drop your performance.
Make sure your reticle isn't aids. Use circles, aimpoints and/or dots. No crosses or anything of the kind. I recommend the Circle IV (Solid, and at 50%) with Aimpoint I and Aimpoint with the load indicator respectively since the whole thing just works well together and is sooooo soooo smooth.
Run HP count instead of % please, and tank name at least. Those are the only necessary things in the markers, rest is just preference.
This new thing called feedback:
Put the additional info on Alt if you want it all. Just keep the overall damage counters on your screen, do not put unnecessary stuff on your screen for something that won't give you any actual input since the damage dealt/taken/spotted from that very moment already happened and you need to keep on moving.
The event stuff needs to dialed down by A LOT. I only keep base resets, spots, assisted damage and damage dealt on it (this makes the additional info completely useless) because otherwise you have unnecessary things that pop up with no actual info. Crit hit? Yeah, you noticed just before that the shell didn't do damage. Duh.
Run mod free.
Voila, you have a decent game setting and everything you need on the input part of the WoT spectrum.
MeVersusPing reacted to leggasiini in ELIMINATION: WORST TANK IN THE GAME -FINAL ROUND
Round 2 is over. Results started to seem already quite obvious, but we were still not even close at finished state. Thus, we have ended up into final round. All tanks with 20 or less points has been removed. There is now five tanks in finals. Lets see our finalist:
The M5 Stuart. This tank is legendary for its firepower: this tank has worse global DPG than not just M3 Stuart, but also worse DPG than M2 Light, a tank two tiers lower. If you are pacifist, then this tank is perfect for you. The gun has so anemic penetration that even MS-1 beats it! It struggles to penetrate a T-34 from unangled side! On top of that, even with gold, it cant hurt most tier 7s!
TYPE 95 HEAVY
^drawed by tank's designer himself
What if you had a Type 4 Heavy with stock gun...with Lorraine 40t's armor in exchance for better DPM? Well, congrats, you have exact replica of Type 95 at tier 9! Its...heavy...with armor of light tank...and gun that is direct fire version of tier 2 arty... Wait! atleast it has prefential mm! So it cant be completely worthless, right? Well, ask from yourself, what would you rather fight: KV-1 or KV-85? Does it really matter? You get fucked hard, you just get fucked harder by KV-85. In the end, same thing.
Would it be possible to make a OP tank into shit tank? Its easy: just look at SAu 40. Imagine Hetzer...without: mantle, armor, camo, traverse speed, aim time, AP shell...that has cupola...in exchange for nothing...
No wonder why this tank doesnt have many reverse gears: France clearly doesnt want to see this fucking thing anymore after sending it into battle.
3 months later...
Ahh. Its worse than E-25, but the best possible MM it can get is worst possible MM E-25 can get. Its copy paste of same tier light tank with nerfed mobility, no turret and no depression. It has 3x worse alpha than ISU yet it still has worse DPM. Its tier 7 with tier 8 mm. And it costs 40 euros. And yet still there is enough braindead people to buy it. Say hello to Kannonfodderpanzer!
FV4005 STAGE II
Also known as "shitbarn", and for good reason. Not just it looks like a one, but it quickly gained reputation as worst tier 10 in the game, and still holds that title after 1.5 years from its introduction. Imagine FV183 with gun elevation of AMX 50 120, turret from WTF E100, camo of Japanese heavy, hull of Centurion 1, less health, worse dispersion on move, for better mobility and marginally better accuracy. Oh and did i mention that its global WR hovers around 44% - 46%? Gud tenk.
If you're unfamiliar how these topics work, let me explain - I'll give you a list of choices with a number after them. From them, you increase the "best" choice by 1 and decrease the "worst" choice by 3. Each user is allowed to do this a maximum of once per day. You must explain your choices, even if very briefly. When a choice hits 0, it is eliminated. I'll keep track of in what order they were eliminated in the OP, and the end result is some form of interactive community aggregate ranking! Pretty neat. Highlight your increase with RED and your decrease with GREEN.
And this is most important note:
Upvote the "worst" tank by +1 and "save" the "best" tank from the list by giving it -3, NOT VISE VERSA!
LET THE FINAL ROUND BEGIN!!!!1
Type 95: 20
M5 Stuart: 20
WHO IS THE WORST TANK IN THE GAME?
I will begin once again.
Type 95: 20 + 1 = 21. This abomination is utter piece of shit. Seriously. And it has been buffed once. And worst of all, pretty notably. If Type 95 wasnt buffed i wouldnt even have made these threads because it was even worse than M5 Stuart.
M5 Stuart: 20
FV4005: 20 - 3 = 17. Its super bad, but...with what there is left...this thing is actually the best from these. It atleast has...that 183mm gun, that can be hilarous...if rng smiles to you
MeVersusPing reacted to GehakteMolen in Sandbox
I guess you didnt play sandbox then, because thats totally NOT how it played....
Type 5 / E100 > maus > IS4 for heavy-heavys, arty was at the second and third version 20 times better as current version, and on the final version 10x better as current arty
But i repeated what i saw already 10 times, (STB and Wz-121 OP and new overlord, ru meds trash, bat chat got raped E5 is no longer OP retard tank, leopard is actually fun to play, 268 and foch are no longer crippled retard tanks, E3 is better balanced, Maus and Type 5 are no longer useless meat bags, 183 and Fv 4005 can no longer herp derp you cross map etc etc) people just look 2 streams and think they know all, or even worse, play 5 games and thats it.
All i see is people blinded by a little accuracy change, when EVERYTHING THAT MAKES TIER 10 CANCER got improved, a lot...
On sandbox every single tank should be considered ``new``, you can only compare them with other sandbox tanks, any kind of comparison between sandbox tank <> live server tank is silly, since they have often nothing in common... (due to all changes)
MeVersusPing reacted to SkittlesOfSteeI in Post nerf O-I Appreciation thread
fuck that tank fuck everyone who plays it and fuck who ever thought it would be a good addition to the game. I hope everyone that plays it get pummeled by m44 heat and the person who thought this cancer tank would be a good idea gets fired.
MeVersusPing reacted to Jesse_the_Scout in Centurion Mk. 7/1 Appreciation Thread
But seriously, fuck this tank. No armor, no speed, horrible profile, easy arty full pen, no DPM, bad gun handling, ammo racks everywhere, all for free APCR. What garbage. Getting raped by Russian med hovertanks got old fast.
Why they felt the need to reduce the turret armor in the past I have no idea. At tier 8 the Cent turret was tough but not Pershing tough, at tier 9 a thinned Cent turret is a joke. Shitlords snapshot through it left and right, forget it if the enemy actually bothers aiming. Auto aim sinks shots right about middle plate, which means even when shitlording it up you'll hit the paper lower a lot and FUN FUN ammo racks abound in the front again. And really, who gives a shit about the upper plate when you have zero side and lower plate armor? Since you can't angle your effective armor is a joke. For all the slopes and details this thing might as well be a Tiger in terms of sucking shells.
The gun handling and lack of DPM wreck the one good property, it's like the Cent. On paper it should work, in practice with GLD, vert, snap shot, and food aim time from mere turret rotation is still like 3.5 seconds. And then when you do get on, a few derpy rng BS shots with such low DPM can mean the difference between holding back a tide and getting steamrolled.
Full aim: DIRT
Full aim: BETWEEN TREADS
Full aim: SIDE ARMOR 6 DEGREE LOLBOUNCE
Snap shot back: AMMORACKDEADCOMMANDERTHROUGHTHEMANTLETLOLOLOL
EDIT: and 2 more bounces on an MT-25. Fucking awesome.
There is basically never a situation where I say, "ok, I can do ____". No. I can't scout because I'm slow and arty will full pen me. I can't front line effectively even when top tier because the armor is a joke and it's laced with ammo racks. Hull down is almost pointless because I have long aim time and no turret armor, so I can choose to land hits and get hit or not land hits and not get hit, but I can't do both. Basically it's an over-glorified turreted TD with a weak gun at a time when the game is becoming World of Heavy Tanks, which means sits back and snipe hoping my team doesn't blow it.
If there's some way to work this tank I sure as hell am not getting it.
MeVersusPing reacted to CarbonWard in When to food? What to replace with it?
Weenis talked about the benefits of food in terms of reload and VR, but in my opinion, the biggest advantage to running food is Accuracy.
Accuracy in-game is a stat that indicates to the radius of your aim circle at 100 meters, for example, an E5 with all modules has 0.33 accuracy without food, that means at 100 meters the surface area of its reticle is 0.34 square meters, with food, it lowers the accuracy to 0.31, this translate to a surface area of 0.3 square meters, thats a 12% decrease in surface area to aim circle alone, without even accounting for the increase in aimtime/dispersion.
This is a significant boost to the consistencies of your shots and it would take a hell of a lot for anyone to forgo this boost
Infact, food, BiA, and vent are the only 3 ways for anyone to increase their accuracy in this game via boosting of gunner's skill level, and should alway be taken if possible.
MeVersusPing reacted to Trakais in Sandbox
Because now it is ~ 8-5-2.
You are tier 10? Good job, you have to fight 7 top tier retards on your own team. Killed enemy top tier? Here, have another one until you get facefucked by that unstoppable snowball. Having that many tier 10s per side is destructive, your efforts don't matter that much, matches snowball quickly and overall I find such zerg rush kekekekekekekekeke 3k DPM 50kph lol pen everything gameplay unenjoyable.
You are tier 9? Good job, you have 5 more or less equal opponents and 8 superior opponents.
You are tier 8? Grab that vasoline and get analyzed. Deeeeeeeeeeply.
3-5-7 slows the game down a bit. As top tier you have to fight only 2 retarded top tier teammates, you have to stop only 3 enemy top tiers. Tier 8s actually have a chance to do something. Tier 9s suddenly live in paradise. Of course, 3-5-7 has a flaw called top tier platoons. 3 purples or 3 reds and you can shoot yourself, but isn't that the case already?
But wait! There's more! Verbal diarrhea about sandbox.
Sandbox was great. Yes, it was great. No, I am not trolling. I am serious.
It wasn't world of heavy tanks because some idiots suddenly couldn't press 2 to facefuck that poor sod, who spent months grinding his Maus just to get fucked. I played ~150 games with mediums, I got fucked by a heavy tank once. Once. It was an E-100 on Mines, he fucked me. And I fucked him... just not as hard. Yes, you couldn't pen heavies frontally. But suddenly you got the mobility of LT. Put a shot in his side, drive around, put a shot in his side, drive around, repeat 24/7. Have to shoot his front? Load HE and chip him for 100-200. Don't have HE? GO SOMEWHERE ELSE YOU TUNNEL VISION RETARD, THERE ARE 14 OTHER TANKS TO SHOOT, THIS ISN'T LIVE SERVER, WHERE YOU PRESS R-R-R/2-2 AND GO BRAWL FRONTALLY LIKE A MORON IS-6 DRIVER.
Yes, accuracy got fucked. Yes, penetration got fucked. No, it's not the end of the world. It's a double-edged sword. If you can't hit/pen, chances are enemy can't either. I will get axed for this, but nerfing accuracy and penetration offers more depth to gameplay. What?! Well, you have to get good spots = chance to hit and penetrate. Get to a good spot = damage. Too red to get to a good spot = no damage.
I agree, at first shit hit the fan. Prokhokhokhoerajiasjhkhotrkheovka, I decide to be a filthy line 1 camper with my E-50M, a 183 is spotted, he sits ~400 metres away, angled at 45 degrees. I fired 25 times. I penned 2. We lost after 9 minute peashooting. I wanted to kill every man, woman and child. I raged a bit and hit Alt+F4
The following day I was just as pissed. So I said:"Fuck it, I can't deal damage if I don't yolo." So I yoloed. Everyone knows here, that yolo doesn't work on live servers, you get focused by arty, autoloaders, useless light tanks, who play like shitheads 100 games just to get that mission done, mediums, basically everything. On sandbox it worked. There is only one rule. You do it with a friendly heavy. He gets shot and you run around like a workaholic high on cocaine, marijuana or whatever floats your boat. You pew pew pew everything that moves and you look for single enemies. If someone is alone, you shoot his tracks. Wait wha...? YES, YOU SHOOT HIS TRACKS UNTIL HE USES REPKIT. THEN YOU RUSH THAT FUCKER AND SHOOT HIS TRACKS AGAIN, THEN YOU FUCK HIM UNTIL HE DIES. AS YOU CHARGE YOU TELL HIM TO EAT SHIT AND DIE WHILE CONSTANTLY SPAMMING CYKA BLYAT BECAUSE THERE IS A 80% CHANCE HE IS A RUSSIAN. IF YOU CAN'T FUCK HIM, THEN YOU BETTER GTFO AND FIND SOMEONE ELSE TO FUCK. Hesitation is not an option, hesitation = no damage. Is that good gameplay? Not for everyone, but certainly better than R-R-R/2-2. I enjoyed it, reminded me something from 2012, when only chance to kill IS-4/7 with a medium was gangbang circlejerk.
I can't give an unbiased opinion about arty. Why? Because sandbox has no XVM. In those 150 something games i got shot maybe 10 times, probably less. I got fucked by arty once on Siegfried line. I thought I could, then I got stunned and a batchat circlejerked me. 10/10, would rage again. On live server it goes like this --> spotted --> 15 seconds to gtfo and maybe get fucked or accept your destiny and get fucked 100%. On sandbox it was rare for mediums/lights to get artied, heavies and TDs were the bitches and only on open maps. The stun was a bit poop, but it was a great tool to push, stunned tank has 50%(?) view range = you have 30 seconds to get on his side at ~200 metres and shoot him. Don't tell me PENETRATION DROP, 200 metres = penetration unless RNG really fucks you.
About view range. Eh, whatever. I didn't like heavies having better view range than mediums. Overall view range nerfs had little impact. You just drove closer to spot. Rocket science, I know. Passive spotting is for losers (or for nostalgic players from 2013).
http://wotreplays.com/site/2791200#prokhorovka-trakais-object_430 (33 shots, 4k damage, 6 kilometres and patrol duty = sandbox prokhokadhkogfdhjisovka with mediums)
Overall, I felt sandbox had deeper gameplay. 2-2 doesn't work, so you have to use WASD. A lot. Accuracy/penetration/view range/arty changes allow using WASD. My final verdict 8/10 for sandbox. The gameplay was better than live servers, it wasn't perfect, had some rough edges (lolpatton impotent, leotard), but it wasn't bad. Though after tier 10 grille/skoda/mediumzergrush gogogogogo/get cancered/2-2 fuck you/E5 balanced/3 minute GG NO RE live servers even a total bag of shit looks great.