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I love my Firefly, it's a punchy tier 6 MT with the great 17-pdr gun which makes up for the lack of armor (understandable since its a Sherman platform), but while it isn't the fastest it is still mobile. i thought i'd bite the bullet and move up to the Challenger, the tier 7 TD. and it's just as bad as i've heard. before the introduction of the new British TD line, the T25/2 was the only tank destroyer at tier 7 with a turret. and i've heard complaints that people have with the T25/2 in regards to the mobility and firepower. i didn't have much of a problem with the T25/2, it was fairly mobile, the 90mm gun while compared to the 105mm the T25 AT could mount didn't have as much alpha damage compared to any of the other tier 7 TDs, it did the job. all i can say is that the Challenger makes the T25/2 look good. and i will be comparing these two TDs as they are the most similar let's start with the platform: it's fast (52 kph), being based off a Cromwell chassis, but turns poorly. this makes it not ideal at close range and is almost as helpless as a turretless tank destroyer when it gets circled. but this is a similar case with the T25/2 (which is faster at 56 kph). but the turret traverse on the Challenger is reminiscent of a battleship, making the Challenger more vulnerable at close range than the T25/2 (16 d/s vs 18 d/s) another issue with the Challenger is the complete lack of armor anywhere, not helped by the tall height and large size of the turret. the number of times a moving IS w/ the 122mm gun could snapshot the turret of a hulldown Challenger is enough to demonstrate. the T25/2 had at least a gun mantlet and wasn't as tall a target and could actually hulldown effectively as was the flavor of the US tank line. now to the firepower. with the 17-pdr AT gun it has some of the worst DPS of any of the tier 7 TDs (150), with only the E-25 being lower (135) but that's not an issue because its the E-25. the T25/2 with the 90mm gun does 240 average with its 90mm AP. the penetration with the 17-pdr AT AP shell at 171mm is better than the 90mm....by 1mm. with the APCR that bumps up to 239mm for the 17-pdr, but the 90mm gets a better 258mm pen. both TDs do struggle with tier 8-9 HTs and heavily armored TDs, but the Challenger will have a tougher time doing any appreciable damage, let alone do enough damage. the advertised DPM of the Challenger is 2194 compared to the 1869 of the T25/2, but that's if you can even get the Challenger to plink away undisturbed at a leisurely rate, not getting shot at in return. which is something that rarely happens in the Challenger since it has atrociously poor camo rating and struggles to find anywhere it can hide in aside from the thickest foliage cover, which is sometimes not enough to hide this thing (it's like that tall kid in class who sticks out in a group) i am starting to come to grips with the Challenger and its many limitations and what few advantages it had. doesn't mean i enjoy it http://wotreplays.com/site/2107304#stalingrad-thomchen114-challenger the above was one of my better performance in the Challenger (thus the Ace) i can only hope the Charioteer is worth the grind after the Challenger
http://wotreplays.com/site/1481426#sacred_valley-zapyoug-challenger derped about in circles and then headed to the heavy tank area I did exeptionally well in the challenger and am sucking in the charioteer which is a bit odd considering the charioteer is actually good