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Found 7 results

  1. Out of curiosity and because i dislike when WG warps a vehicle´s uniqueness by changing its historical values to whatever suits them, i decided to compile a list of all the guns found both in WoT and WT and to compare the pen values at 100m on the same shells preferably. WG treats many shells as APCR(Armor Piercing Composite Rigid) despite the fact they where in reality as an example a mere APC(Armor Piercing Capped), APCR in WoT has disadvantages in normalization. War Thunder as far as i am aware respects the historical penetration values. Take into consideration Wargaming uses quite a few fake guns usually by adding a letter to the end of the name of the gun and same gun with same ammo can have different pen values in different vehicles, its a mess that its pointless to go into detail. From what i can tell, it shows wargaming its very lazy when it comes to ammo and even with ammo there are probably fake ones, it would be better if WG didnt even use the real name of the shells since its simply for show and apparently its what they have started to do as can be seen in the light tanks, specially tier 10 ones. On the left pen values in WoT for AP, APCR, HE(when main ammo), HEAT and even HESH, on the right pen values for WT same shells, however when i specify the kind of shell in WT side it means WT doesnt use same shells as in WoT more or less... USA 12.7mm M2 HB: 27 - 25 37mm M5: 48/70 - 76/66 37mm M6: 56/78 - 89/78 75mm Howitzer M2/3: 38(HE)/91 - 10(HE)/89 75mm M2/3: 92/127 - 88/137 75mm M6: 96/143 - 88/109(AP) 3-inch/76mm M7: 101/157 - 125 76mm M1: 128/177 - 125/215 76mm T185E1: 145/210 - 231/200 76mm M32: 175/210 - 231/ 90mm M3: 160/243 - 164(APCBC)/188(AP)/260 90mm M3A1: 192/243 - 192(AP)/270(APCR)/305(HEATFS) 90mm M41E1: 181/250 - 102mm(HESH)/169(APCBC)/270(APCR)/320(HEATFS) 90mm T15E1/2: 170,192/258 - 216(AP)/202(APCBC)/266(APCR) 90mm M54: 219/275 - 169(APCBC)/270(APCR)/320 105mm M4: 53(HE)/101 - 26(HE)/130 105mm T5E1/2: 198/245,260 - 248/310 105mm M68: 268/330 - 127(HESH)/320(APDS)/355(APFSDS)/400(HEATFS) 120mm T53: 248/297 - 246(AP)/319(APCR) 120mm M58: 258/340 - 302/380 152mm XM81/M81: 76(HE)/85(HE)/152 - 354(HEAT)/431(ATGM) UK 40mm QF 2-pdr: 64,78,88,121/121,145 - 72(APCBC)/79(AP) 40mm Bofors: 63/101 - 74(AP) 57mm OQF 6-pdr Mk.III/IV/V: 110/180 - 111(AP)/126(APCBC) 75mm OQF Mk.V: 91/144 - 91(APCBC)/109(AP) 76mm OQF 17-pdr: 171/239 - 168(APCBC)/226(APDS) 77mm OQF: 148/208 - 149/203 84mm OQF 20-pdr: 226/258 - 215/283(APDS) 90mm T208: 202/238 - 297(APFSDS) 94mm OQF 32-pdr: 214,220/246,252 - 239(APCBC) 105mm L7: 268/210(HESH) - 302/127 120mm L1A1: 259/326/120(HESH) - 361(APDS)/152(HESH) 120mm L11: 270/310/140(HESH) - 397(APDS)/408(APFSDS)/152(HESH) 183mm L4: 310/230(HESH) - 254(HESH) USSR 12.7mm DShK: 22 - 25 20mm TNSh: 28/39 - 25/34 37mm SH-37: 46/62 - 57(AP) 45mm 20-K: 51/88 - 68(AP)/94(APCR) 57mm ZiS-2: 112/189 - 134 75mm KT-28: 38/37 - 34 76mm L-11: 66/85 - 76(APBC) 76mm ZiS-3: 78/120 - 104(APBC)/130(APCR) 85mm D-5S: 120/161 - 142/175 85mm ZiS-S-53: 126/167 - 142/175 100mm D-10: 175/235 - 208/250 100mm LB-1: 190/247 - 208/235 100mm D10T2S: 201/330 - 235(AP)/298(APDS)/330(APFSDS)/390(HEATFS) 107mm ZiS-6: 167/219 - 195 122mm M-30: 61/140 - 36/160 122mm D-25: 175/217 - 196/223 122mm M-62-T2: 258/340 - 276/400/360(APDS) 130mm B-13: 196/171 - 223 152mm M-10: 86/110/136 - 54/122/130 152mm M-64 90/303/395 - 54/229/250 152mm ML-20: 86/135/250 - 49/165/250 Germany 20mm KwK38: 23/46 - 45/63 20mm FlaK38: 39/51 - 45/63 30mm MK103: 95/110 - 53/93 37mm KwK34: 40/69 - 54/83 37mm KwK36: 40/74 - 64/90 37mm KwK38: 42/74 - 67/91 47mm PaK: 62/115 - 87/102 50mm KwK38: 60/96 - 73/130 50mm KwK39: 67/130 - 96/149 75mm KwK37: 38(HE)/43/87 - 10/54/100 75mm PaK40: 108/154 - 146/195 75mm KwK40 L/43: 103/139 - 133/173 75mm KwK40 L/48: 110/158 - 135/176 75mm KwK42:150/194 - 185/225 76mm Pak36: 96/166 - 133/188 88mm KwK36: 145/194 - 162/219 88mm KwK43: 203/237 - 232/270 105mm StuH42: 53(HE)/64/104 - 22(HE)/84/115 105mm K18: 169/227 - 200 105mm KwK L/68: 225/285 - 244/272 128mm K40: 231 - 224(APC)/237(APCBC) 128mm KwK44: 246/311 - 264(APC)/267(APCBC)
  2. From: http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/59528-armor-penetration-curves/ fnord_disc over at EU managed to cobble together code that fits very closely to what WG uses to calculate penetration over distance, and recently released the source code for it (which @Captain_F22ACE improved upon, more on that below). I won't get into the specifics of the equation (feel free to read the reddit link below for that), and a lot of this data requires the ability to extract gameparams.data to obtain specific shell characteristics not listed in-game such as drag constant and krupp value. Basically how to read the graph: Pensacola/Indianapolis/New Orleans 203mm AP: Blue line = raw penetration (what we are familiar with in WoT since shell arc is minor outside of derps and SPGs). Raw penetration assumes you hit a perfectly flat, 0 degree surface Red line = penetration against the belt armor of the ship with vertical impact angle adjusted (but horizontally, e.x. player-controlled angling by turning the ship, still being 0) The creator published this code on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldOfWarships/comments/560yg2/wows_ballistic_model_penetration Fun fact from reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldOfWarships/comments/560yg2/wows_ballistic_model_penetration/d8flmgs Also, @Captain_F22ACE improved upon this code. Added simulated penetration after striking an armor plate. I'll let him post the source code himself in case he doesn't want others to see But it looks something like this (Iowa 16" SHS AP shell used for example, sorry for overlapping text because 14" laptop scaling on 1080P does screwy things) ^155mm thick plate used here btw (Mosvka belt armor), and also with scout plane + main battery +16% range module included so you can see where plunging fire starts to take effect. Gun elevation sadly never reaches full 45 degrees like it historically did, maxes out to 30 instead. Distance is read in meters x 10^4, so "1.5" on the x-axis = 15km, "2" = 20km, and so on. ... It's not perfect since shells of very low mass (76mm on Smith) tend to get quirky readings on the improved code for calculating energy left after hitting the first place (as ships do have multi-layered armor, so citadeling sometimes requires going through 3-4 plates of armor), but the raw penetration calculations are still relatively accurate: ^ 30mm plate used here btw, didn't set actual gun angle for this so range is iffy. So yeah, have fun pouring over the graphs already there and seeing what is the optimal distance to engage a target.
  3. Hi all, Sorry if this is the wrong subsection, but I couldn't find anything better. I've been looking at the penetration values at different guns, and I've been wondering how WG finds these values. For example, I've seen values at 90 degree, 45 degrees, 15 degrees, etc. Which ones do they use? Thanks
  4. I've noticed something peculiar in tanks with low penetration standard shells. Take the IS6 with it's 175 pen AP, when fully aimed, I normally pen weak spots. However, when not fully aimed (like a snap shot or a peak a boom), even if the shell hits the weak spot, the shell is far less likely to pen. Why? I can understand penetration being affected by the location of where the shell lands as a result of an unaimed shot. What I am asking about though is what is up with unaimed shots that hit the weak point but do not pen?
  5. Hi, my first post here, so hi to everyone and thank you for the good discussions I have been reading since a while. The Question in the title will most likely result in an general balancing discussion but I would was asking myself why the developers gave high tier MTs such high penetration values. Maybe it was because the guns where that good and no real HTs where build anymore at that time. So it would be a relic from the times where such decisions where based on history and not so much on gameplay. As I see things, coming from low tier, usually TDs have the biggest (pen, alpha) guns, followed by HTs followed by MTs. This makes perfect sense for me, the TDs, usually no turret, get the best gun. The HTs are slow, the get the second best guns. So mediums can go flank and play smart. But at some point the MTs are just overtaking the HTs. I think T10 MTs are OP, btw, because of that. But: Do you have any other explanation why they did it that way?
  6. I've had quite a few instances of no damage critical hits that don't make sense unless there is some sort of game mechanic I don't understand. How can shots into the side of a turret that leave a penetration mark half way between the turret ring and top of the turret be no damage critical hits? I've seen this happen too often when shooting into the side of the E75 and Tiger II turret along with a few times into the side of a T34 and T29 turret. How can shots into the lower glacis of a tank be a no damage critical hit? How can two shots into the rear center of a T29's hull through the engine compartment be no damage critical hits? If I damage an important part of the drivetrain, shouldn't it remove hitpoints? Basically, how can you damage a transmission, engine, or ammo rack and have the shot not do any hit points of damage at all? I haven't been able to find anything offical that says shooting the engien or transmission won't cause any hitpoints of damage.
  7. I've been playing with the Soviet and Chinese 122 caliber guns with 175 AP penetration for awhile now and have a good idea whether the round's gonna go through or not. What bothers me, though, is that I have no clue when to bring out the gold. I've already had a few encounters where I get jumped by an IS-_ or E-_ and think, "Yep, this calls for gold alright." Then, I just end up bouncing off LFPs or what I think is the flat side of the pike. (And for the purposes of discussion, let's stick to talking about pen and armor. Yes, I know I shouldn't bump into heavies like that.) Am I just estimating angles horribly wrong or shooting at the wrong surfaces? Or do these guns' gold rounds mostly play the role of a hedge against bad luck (thus, I should continue to shoot what AP can pen). If these gold rounds do open up targeting opportunities, could you guys supply some examples as to what pen vs. armor breakpoints these are? For reference, APCR buys you 217 pen and HEAT gets you 250. Vanilla AP is 175.
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