Peeking, Spotting, Mechanics and Pubs

[ArmoredCorps 88]

Here's a quick summation of why invisitanks happen, even during a peek-a-boo, but also the action-reaction cycles of those situations. 

A poster @ NA WoT forums complained about Romulan tanks... and well, my post there is only going to be forgotten anyway, so I might as well put it here where people give a damn. 

 

More Romulan cloaking devices found.

 

His beef was summed up in the following video video. 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys5Kv8woSVM

 

My responses buried on the bottom of page 3; the wasted breathe and breathtaking Paint.NET skills ridiculous South Park-calibre box tanks shan't go to waste. 

______________________________________________________

______________________________________________________

______________________________________________________

______________________________________________________

 

 

Sight lines (server vision checks) are drawn from the center of objects on your tank -- hull and turret -- such that your most-distant corner sprocket can be seen first by a passive tank parked on an edge. All of that foliage in your face and between you and the E100 doesn't help either. It's gimmicky but that's the way it is.

 

Spotting Mechanics: It's in a spoiler because this is a touch esoteric.

Spoiler

Basically ANGLES:

 

 

I'll draw a Paint.NET file since my coffee is still scalding:

Note: of course, these are not perfectly to scale, but I did, in fact, draw 2 yellow lines from the T34 HT analogue, and it displays an important caveat: when you pie a corner by moving forward: your 2 vision checking areas can overlap -- so it really puts you at a disadvantage. (Whereas you can see with the E100 HT analogue, depending on the exact model and forward / center / rear turret placement of a vehicle, it can have overlapping spot-check lines, increasing the coverage)

 

Finally, the E100 is very tall, and might have a spot check going over bushes you cannot, to see your front hull.

 

WG.net did mention some time long after 6.4 they changed or added spot checking areas IIRC, but having played through many a patch cycle, I can tell you that they haven't really changed the scenario above.

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

======================================

 

HOW TO DEAL WITH IT:

1) patience if that's an option; of course, there's a very simple technique available to at least rule-out the presence of a tank there with some confidence of probability:

 

2) when you get to the suspected camp position of a tank, and you are CONFIDENT YOU ARE NOT CURRENTLY SPOTTED, you poke just ... a bit and back off.

IF your lightbulb pops: you can bet poking hard and fast is gonna hurt -- a lot. Especially since it could be that worst-case scenario -- high-armor + alpha turreted heavy. And Patton knows what else.

 

3) Once a fight is joined in these situations, you'll want to bait the defender into shooting first and bouncing / missing / tracking you. A well-disciplined or skilled defender probably won't make the mistake, but many, many players do, and then they can be put into an increasingly negative action/reaction cycle.

 

4) in the sillier, mutually-stacked peek-a-boo fights, target selection is everything.

*Did the very forward guy back up into a teammate? Well, make him pay while he's still exposed.

*If possible, track the one in behind, trapping 2 tanks! (this is exceedingly rare)

*Is there a tank in the rear of that stack with crappy armor? Often, he'll get left hanging in the wind by his bigger teammates in front, or can be caught off guard

*SECURING A KILL IN THESE SITUATIONS IS OFTEN VITAL -- but only provided it's one of the tanks with actually relevant firepower / armor in this situation.

Over-pieing to kill a medium tank who mostly wasn't penning people is a waste of hit points. Taking a shot, or even 2, but KILLING the biggest / toughest tank or best-damaging-output PLAYER (often a unicum, but just as often a solid green or blue purple) often IS worth it.

*just as important a consideration -- taking shots for teammates, if you have the armor for it. The peeking side which conserves guns/lives usually prevails.

 

5) not an additional tactic but of absolute importance: you need to know your tank's armor profiles in this situation -- how reliable the off-angling glacis armor becomes, your back up speed, how exposed your sprocket is (permatrack here is quickly lethal, esp. tier 9+ matches) -- and your own tank's soft-gun stats and ability to work against enemy armor.

 

It's rarely over quick, except for enormous, concerted pushes, or defenders against hapless, piecemeal attacks.

 

===========

 

On your video: one last pointer: regardless of why/how the spotting works, the lightbulb gives you an edge to work with.

When that allied Tortoise dies, it was his fading (residual) spot which timed out -- and made the E100 go invisible. At least, based on when you start your video, this is a reasonable inference.

When you aggressively chase those vehicles, the worst case scenario is similar to what happened -- they actively disappear while you pie foliage and hard cover (the hill side) while you are lit the entire time.

 

As it were, you and the E100 were mutually unspotted to each other -- you had an initial advantage which died with the Tortoise. (you were operating with knowledge of the E100, but not him, of you -- allied spotting)

This is where my diagram kicks in.

So the allied death reset the spotting cycle, and that E100 had the critical advantage of the defending spotting mechanics (and possibly the E100's height) and of course, tier/firepower.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If anyone wants to add to this, clarify, pigeonhole -- esp. with-respect-to updates to the spotting mechanics ever mentioned in FTR which didn't make it to the NA WoT wiki -- please do so. 

[KnobbyHobbGoblin 1,002]

Wow, good job on trying to educate pubs.  I tried it a while ago, but ended up not having the patience and feeling that I was wasting my time with them.

+1 for a great guide/dissection.

[PubbiePiper 2]

+1 good read plus it made sense

[CaptBellamy 2]

+1 good read plus it made sense

 

yep, answers some of my questions as well. Thanks

[ArmoredCorps 88]

Wow, good job on trying to educate pubs.  I tried it a while ago, but ended up not having the patience and feeling that I was wasting my time with them.

+1 for a great guide/dissection.

More of a micro-guide, but thanks. 

 

Seriously, anyone wanna add to it? 

[Mythary 1]

Is anyone able to clear up what is happening at 0:05 to 0:08 with the foliage? It looks like there is a nice bush in the way but when the player zooms in it looks like there is a gap that he should be able to spot through. Is there a mod that removes foliage only within the dispersion circle? I know there was/is a mod that displays foliage as compact pixels making trees and bushes appear as a bunch of dots.

[Istanbultaye 21]

Wow... that is really good info. Really clarifies why being the one pushing around the corner generally sucks. Thanks for the effort you put into this!

[stagnate 513]

Is anyone able to clear up what is happening at 0:05 to 0:08 with the foliage? It looks like there is a nice bush in the way but when the player zooms in it looks like there is a gap that he should be able to spot through. Is there a mod that removes foliage only within the dispersion circle? I know there was/is a mod that displays foliage as compact pixels making trees and bushes appear as a bunch of dots.

 

 

That is standard behavior in the game.  When you zoom it 'thins' the bushes so you can see through them a bit easier.  This is one benefit of the 30x zoom, letting you get a better view through bushes far away.

 

You can tell when he isn't zoomed that there is not actually a gap there.

[Mythary 1]

That is standard behavior in the game.  When you zoom it 'thins' the bushes so you can see through them a bit easier.  This is one benefit of the 30x zoom, letting you get a better view through bushes far away.

 

You can tell when he isn't zoomed that there is not actually a gap there.

 

Thank you. I had not paid attention to that in battle.