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rocketbrainsurgeon

Thoughts on the game before Open Beta

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Winrate

 

I've been digging around better players' profiles as well as examined my own stats, and I've come to the conclusion that:

  • 1.5 - 2 kills/game gets you 50-55% range
  • 2.1+ kills/game gets you 60%
  • 2.5 - 3 kills/game seems to net around 70% winrate

Winrate seems closely related to how many bomb fairies you have on your team, or how many of your teammates try to prevent their bombers.  Which is a bigger waste of time: going after meaningless targets or trying to STOP someone from going after a meaningless target with a more useful plane?

 

Platooning seems more powerful here than in WoT.  In WoT, putting three 50%'ers didn't mean a whole lot.  In WoWP, it means you have less people doing meaningless things like bombing or attacking bombers, and that's very important.  I've seen quite a few profiles of people with around 1 Kill/game having 55%+ winrates across the board, while I can't break 55% and have been averaging 2+ kills/game in the past couple hundred games.

 

OverPowered planes

 

I-16 (late mod) - Better firepower than anything in tier, including the Heavy Fighter and Attack Aircraft.  A close second in turn rate, and an insane roll rate means you can change directions stupidly fast.  Why this gets a 90 DPS 20mm cannon while every other 20mm cannon in tier is 74 DPS or lower, I'll never know.

 

BF 109 Z - This plane was so OP in the last patch, that they moved it DOWN from tier 7 to tier 6.  Wait... what?  Yeah, they did that.  With a climb rate that's triple what your average tier 5 has and a cruising speed that's double, lower tiers pose exactly zero threat to you.  The 30mm cannons have maximum ranges of over 1Km, and are effective from 800m.  They could remove the top engine and outboard 30mm cannons and it would still be the best tier 6 by a good margin.  Comically OP.

 

Machine Guns vs Cannons

 

MG's are so much worse than cannons it's not funny:

  • 1/2 to 1/3 the range
  • 1/2 the accuracy
  • 1/2 the penetration
  • far less alpha

Something has to change before release, because right now it's crippling.  At least make them accurate within their tiny range?

 

Tier 5 Premiums

 

I've flown 4 of them, and have flown the equivalent to the other one.

  1. Me 210 - 10/10 - great firepower, HP, speed, climb, and boost.  Able to punch above its' weight better than the rest, which gives it the #1 slot.  The only real difference between the Me 210 and the Bf 110 E is that the Me has 2 less MG's, which are useless anyway to a Boom and Zoom plane.  The plane also bullies lower tiers exceptionally well, having a 13mm tailgunner and huge HP pool and monstrously better speed and climb than tier 4's.
  2. XFL-1 - 8/10 - Boasting a 37mm cannon, this plane has the best alpha damage in tier.  The 37mm does heat up quickly, which is why it isn't higher and I don't recommend too much sniping with it.  You will know when the 37 has connected.  More sluggish than its' stats suggest, which makes it hard to take on higher tiers.  You're completely impotent when the 37 is cooling down.
  3. XP-77 - 6/10 - BF 109 E "lite" version.  Great maneuverability, but less firepower than you'd like.  Has a harder time killing higher tiers or high HP enemies.  Dive speed could be better; caps out at ~500.
  4. P40 - 4/10 - Good armor and straight-line speed.  No cannons doom this plane.
  5. He 100 - 1/10 -  Best speed / climb / maneuverability in tier, but you can't kill a metal plane within 30 minutes due to the atrocious firepower.  Attacking a heavy fighter or AA is completely out of the question, and higher tiers are nearly immune to your guns.

The US premiums are just better than their counterparts, which isn't a great feeling.

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I have to disagree with you on the HE100. Firepower is a tad weak but blistering at close range. It also turns tighter than most of the planes its tier and can climb extremely fast. It can also disengage and out range any enemy practically at will which gives it a unique characteristic set you really cant find anywhere else and makes playing "hard to get" very easy.

Focus on finishing off weak enemies and dropping in behind enemies, giving them a nice long burst, than bugging out to reset and pick another target, basically a modified BnZ with more contact time.

Also, 109z is tier 6 and is outclassed by the 410 to be frank.

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Yeah, we will totally agree to disagree.

 

The He 100 has 3 x 7.92mm guns with 24 DPS apiece.  This is less than tier 4 planes get, and it's not even close to adequate.

 

The 410 has one 50 cal churning out 212 DPS, while the 109z has 4 x 30 cals throwing 188 DPS each.  It's not even a contest.

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Yeah, we will totally agree to disagree.

The He 100 has 3 x 7.92mm guns with 24 DPS apiece. This is less than tier 4 planes get, and it's not even close to adequate.

The 410 has one 50 cal churning out 212 DPS, while the 109z has 4 x 30 cals throwing 188 DPS each. It's not even a contest.

 

 

The 50mm on the 410 is crap lol, use the 20s and 30s. The 30s on the 109z are spread all over which means it is far less accurate and they overheat very quickly while the 410 still has back up guns.  Its a death sweep vs death ray thing, I've been working on a HF guide that'll explain it better.

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OverPowered planes

 

I-16 (late mod) - Better firepower than anything in tier, including the Heavy Fighter and Attack Aircraft.  A close second in turn rate, and an insane roll rate means you can change directions stupidly fast.  Why this gets a 90 DPS 20mm cannon while every other 20mm cannon in tier is 74 DPS or lower, I'll never know.

 

BF 109 Z - This plane was so OP in the last patch, that they moved it DOWN from tier 7 to tier 6.  Wait... what?  Yeah, they did that.  With a climb rate that's triple what your average tier 5 has and a cruising speed that's double, lower tiers pose exactly zero threat to you.  The 30mm cannons have maximum ranges of over 1Km, and are effective from 800m.  They could remove the top engine and outboard 30mm cannons and it would still be the best tier 6 by a good margin.  Comically OP.

 

 

I-16 late model lacks the climbing ability to fight the F-109b or the P-36

Either of the American or German counterparts can easily destroy the I-16 due to the fact they have far better top speeds.

At tier 4 most players only know the target and turn tactic of flying.

Put any decent player that knows his strengths vs weakness against a plane and he will destroy them.

 

Lesson 1 -- don't try to turn fight versus a late model I-16 , use your superior climbing ability and speed to seperate and come back for strafing attacks.

 

What the above poster said about the ME -410 is correct

 

Another plane that can fight the 109z is the F4U

It can out-turn the 109z and has enough speed to keep up with it long enough to break the 109z's engines.

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OMG, I'm a "bomb faerie"!   =D

 

Good to know on the Me 210 as I've been eye-balling that one.

 

To be clear:  I am badbadbad@planes yet have a 51% WR (as of this morning) with less than 150 battles.  

 

This game needs a LOT of work before it releases.  Clan mates of mine refuse to participate in the beta because they tried it (were admitted to closed beta) and hated the sloppy feel so badly.  You'd more accurately hit an enemy plane if you threw rocks at it.  The voice-overs are still screwed up (no, I am not stalling, moron, when the plane is clearly accelerating.  And I am not in a 'steep decline' when my nose is obviously pointed toward the sun and climbing.)   Spawns are often so close that it is very common for planes to be destroyed within the first two seconds - true story! - of the battle starting.  

 

Bombs are seriously the only bright spot I've found.

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I-16 late model lacks the climbing ability to fight the F-109b or the P-36

Either of the American or German counterparts can easily destroy the I-16 due to the fact they have far better top speeds.

At tier 4 most players only know the target and turn tactic of flying.

Put any decent player that knows his strengths vs weakness against a plane and he will destroy them.

 

That matches my observations.  The I-16 late isn't OP in and of itself, it just seems that way because the majority of people play into its strengths. 

 

As for the 109Z though....  I don't think I've seen anything compete.  Not saying that nothing can, just saying I haven't seen it.

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I-16 is my fav plane :< dun nurf it pl0x.

 

It turns better than my LA-5, which is supposed to be more maneuvreable than my I-16 according to stats. Much less accurate than my LA-5 though. 

 

 

 

 

And I find it close to impossible to carry a team to victory in a bomb fairy (IL-2 2-Seat). Killing stationary seals doesn't have enough weight in making a difference in a game unless it's 1v1 and you're running away from a fighter that can't find you.

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How do you guys feel about the tier spread? What about the xp system? Ammo system?

 

IMO the tier spread is too much. Especially for T2 and T7 aircraft, they're vastly outclassed at the bottom. Everything else is outclassed as well but its not so extreme. Its still common to be up against an aircraft that has a significant speed and manver advantage though.

 

 

The xp system is bad. WoT's curve for the base qualification is much better since you get the early points so much faster. It also nerfs the T1 aircraft too hard when they have 50% crews.

 

The secondary skill section is an improvement on WoT assuming the implied limit of three skills per crewman ends up happening. I still think its too long of a grind though and its also linear, but at least you start at 50% effectiveness.

 

The ammo system is terrible because it's WoT with a third tier of power for even more credits. Utter tripe, I could write something better in minutes.

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I'll agree the Zwilling is OP - I've gotten several aces in it, and I am bad at planes.

 

@ Rocket - do you see these premiums as credit earners, or Exp earners?

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The 50mm on the 410 is crap lol, use the 20s and 30s. The 30s on the 109z are spread all over which means it is far less accurate and they overheat very quickly while the 410 still has back up guns.  Its a death sweep vs death ray thing, I've been working on a HF guide that'll explain it better.

 

Again, the Me 410 is worse than the 109z in nearly every way no matter what the load-out.  I'm not sure how being less maneuverable, less fast, and with significantly less firepower makes it better.  The 109z throws out so much damage, accuracy and heating really doesn't matter when it takes sub 1-second bursts to kill an enemy.  The 109z trades a tailgunner and HP for more firepower and a better platform.

 

I-16 late model lacks the climbing ability to fight the F-109b or the P-36

Either of the American or German counterparts can easily destroy the I-16 due to the fact they have far better top speeds.

At tier 4 most players only know the target and turn tactic of flying.

Put any decent player that knows his strengths vs weakness against a plane and he will destroy them.

 

Lesson 1 -- don't try to turn fight versus a late model I-16 , use your superior climbing ability and speed to seperate and come back for strafing attacks.

 

Guys, you know that 1v1 is a significantly tiny portion of the game, right?  Because plane X can counter plane Y, it doesn't prove that plane Y is junk.  Plane Y can still be better in the majority of situations.

 

How do you guys feel about the tier spread? What about the xp system? Ammo system?

 

No one ever complains when they are on top feeding on lower tiers.  At that point, it's always skillz that killz.  But when bottom tier, it's always "unfair".  I think it's necessary for their business model.

XP system is hard to evaluate with all of the bonuses.  Some "upgrades" are extraordinarily minimal.  Overall it feels very easy to get up to tier 5, but really hard 6+.  I like it that way.

 

Haven't used other types of ammo.  Am I missing out?

 

@ Rocket - do you see these premiums as credit earners, or Exp earners?

 

They seem to generate similar XP/game to their non-premium counterparts.  Unsure on crew training XP generation.

 

They do generate significantly more credits.

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No one ever complains when they are on top feeding on lower tiers.  At that point, it's always skillz that killz.  But when bottom tier, it's always "unfair".  I think it's necessary for their business model.

XP system is hard to evaluate with all of the bonuses.  Some "upgrades" are extraordinarily minimal.  Overall it feels very easy to get up to tier 5, but really hard 6+.  I like it that way.

 

Haven't used other types of ammo.  Am I missing out?

 

I complain about the the shark chasing chum kills. T2 biplanes against a 110B is retarded. They can't engage me, their guns do little damage if they get a firing opportunity and they can't take the firepower I have. The only thing keeping the disparity slightly hidden is that so many heavy pilots at that tier are new and think every aircraft is meant for turning fights.

 

 

The better ammo is pretty bad. The fire chance is hardly noticible, you'd be lucky to set someone on fire once in 10 battles. The top ammo has more DPS, its a decent upgrade I guess, very pricey though. Unfortunately the penetration numbers are hidden and I don't think any real tests have been done. That makes it really hard to tell which is the best in practice. Without the x2 credits boost we get for beta I'd use standard for everything. Right now I'm using the top stuff in my most played planes, its not that great.

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Yea, ammo usefulness/differentiation is pretty nil.

Crew exp gain seems to the slowest they could have possibly made it (although it doesn't seem to make the biggest difference to me in either way).

HF's are awesome right now because of massive cannon dakka.

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Yea, ammo usefulness/differentiation is pretty nil.

Crew exp gain seems to the slowest they could have possibly made it (although it doesn't seem to make the biggest difference to me in either way).

HF's are awesome right now because of massive cannon dakka.

They need to bring back limited ammo is what they need to do.

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Guys, you know that 1v1 is a significantly tiny portion of the game, right?  Because plane X can counter plane Y, it doesn't prove that plane Y is junk.  Plane Y can still be better in the majority of situations.

 

 

 

Not sure if your being stubborn

If you have a full 15 of the I-16(late model) vs a full fleet of any of the other tier 4 fighters

I-16 will lose more than it wins.

Why?

Cause it can not climb ,the other fighters in it's tier can all outclimb it ,thus negating its derp guns.

 

For example

Start match , climb

I-16 getting shot from above rest of match

 

It is a good dogfighter but it is very far from being overpwered

 

As for the 109z , if you go head on with it and your not in a 109z , your dead.

Don't go head on vs this plane.

Get passed it's initial pass and it is dead, end of story.

It can't out-turn anything in it's tier and if trys to boom and zoom there is good chance it will lose it's engines before getting away, making it a flying coffin.

 

In the early days of closed beta the me262 was thought to be overpowered in the same way, till people learned how to fly against it.

If the 262 didn't kill you in his fly by he was as a good as dead.

 

Do I think the 109z should be tier 6 ? No

There are planes that dominate it in that tier though.

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I'm not being stubborn, though I'm sure I can be at times.

Here's a game you and I were just in, which perfectly illustrates what's going on:

 

de8Nf8k.jpg

 

14 of 19 kills went to the BF 109 Z's.  This happens over and over, game after game.

 

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Well you are right in some respect.

The fact remains that until you know how to fly against a 109z , it will massacre you.

Since most of the people playing this game come from WOT , I don't see them learning how to fly anything never mind flying against something.

 

 

That was my 2nd or 3rd game ever in that plane

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http://worldofwarplanes.eu/community/accounts/500678163-sharpneli/

 

For me the stats are somewhat misleading as back when the stats came it didn't count anything else than just games (and wins/losses). I had bit less than 200 games with 0 counted kills then. All those kills have come while playing the closed beta (I was in global alpha). So the kill count is a lot lower than what it should be.

 

I kinda like the game. But this time I'm gonna probably play mostly in platoon right from the bat as I can use the beta stages to learn the ropes.

 

On lower tiers check the US fighters, their T4 planes are quite good at their tier.

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My impressions were that is was.......cheap, unintresting and boring. 

 

 

I hate to just slam it like that but it was just so meh it was.....meh.

 

 

I got a feeling the game will fail flat on it's face.  With the competition from War Thunder and the obviously lower quality, not to mention the head start and following War Thunder already has, I don't think WoWP will ever take off like WoT or WoWS probably will.  It's only hope will be if Wargaming ever merges the three games into a single world, I could definitly see it taking WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY off then.

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