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Bridgeburner

Competition rigging on the NA server

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I think you'll find yourself disappointed over and over and over again as you go through life. I expect everyone to be scum and instead get pleasantly surprised now and then.

 

lol that's a rather nice way to look at life

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I generally like almost all of Petco's posting. But this really puts you guys in a bad light. Of the people who have said anything its a pretty even split between Jeeps attitude and yours. 

Out of 100 people, they are not going to see everything the same, 500 if you want to consider the community that shares our TS. Clans band together under common goal, interests and theme, but people in the clan are not going to have same opinion and views on everything. Individuals views of the clan represent just that, views of those individuals. If you wish to identify a clan, or group of clans, do so by their action as a whole in clanwar, or their structure (See TBL's CoC and command structure).  

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It's the same douchey reason that douches give for cheating in any game and it's just as douchey. 

 

Go back to wallhacking Call of Duty, douche. 

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Like I said, my post had nothing to do with whatever's between you and him. I posted what I post simply because I can't stand you, and you were falling back to your same shit of stat attacking someone who you're barely better than.

Well I've been called a bad before, and I take it on the chin and work hard at improving. I like to base myself on objective facts, and if you asked me, stat attacking on flimsy evidence is better than wild flaming without, as most of the forums do.

 

Out of 100 people, they are not going to see everything the same, 500 if you want to consider the community that shares our TS. Clans band together under common goal, interests and theme, but people in the clan are not going to have same opinion and views on everything. Individuals views of the clan represent just that, views of those individuals. If you wish to identify a clan, or group of clans, do so by their action as a whole in clanwar, or their structure (See TBL's CoC and command structure).

Speaking of "common goal, interests, and theme", it's really nice to see him try to sell PBKAC out first opportunity he gets (see below)

 

 

Seriously, bro? Between the leadership role in the Big Rig and the creative-contest vote-stacking, you're really going to say that? Really?

 

 

"Hey gais I'm really really sorry, but a lot of other clans do a lot worse so let me off hook pls?"

 

i dont mean to start anything, but i cant find how this is cheating. i went through the rules and didnt see anything about this being against them. i could have missed it. if someone can link where what was done is against the rules, that would be great.  

 

also not saying i agree with the actions, just that i dont see where it says you arent aloud to do it.

 

 

The eight PUPEHs conspiring to throw a game is tantamount to griefing the other seven players, for starters.

 

Def speaking as an individual here. I think its hilarious how upset everyone is about this. WG designs a bad contest, someone optimizes the contest, and suddenly a bunch of people are crying about it? Did the rules forbid count ins? No? Then kudos to Alphyn for winning within the rules!

 

Given how horrible WG mismanages their MVP contests: Oh sorry, you sent the screenshot we wanted the last 6 contests, with the useful info on it, but THIS TIME we asked for the less useful screenshot. No the demo will not be sufficient. No you can't use a WoTreplays parse as the screenshot (I could have just shopped it into my garage to make it look right too...)

 

In light of that level of rule adherence, since we're talking about spirit vs letter of the law, who can actually care if an individual uses social leverage and the mechanics of the game to win a contest. WG didn't ban the RU account who used TCs and a 5x weekend to get 2 tier 10s in ~100 matches? All within the rules. Its up to them to design good competitions, and us to win them. 

 

EvE Online called, and it says "fuck you, cryasses"

 

As for how this reflects on my clan...we aren't CoC bound, I've literally never discussed this event with anyone in my clan, because I only found out this morning! But you can try to demonize the organizations of players if you want, because as a rule that seems to be one of the themes among the butthurt masses.

 

(ps I generally like your posting, so consider this more an open letter than a personal response!)

 

Well then perhaps he should be banned so he can go play EvE.

 

From the WG standpoint, this is an open and shut case, eight PUPEH players conspired to throw a pub game, that's griefing right there, that's pretty indisputable.

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From the WG standpoint, this is an open and shut case, eight PUPEH players conspired to throw a pub game, that's griefing right there, that's pretty indisputable.

 

Well there you go, finally a violation of the rules. Better give them their 24hr bans and get it over with then, right?

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Well I've been called a bad before, and I take it on the chin and work hard at improving. I like to base myself on objective facts, and if you asked me, stat attacking on flimsy evidence is better than wild flaming without, as most of the forums do.

 

I think in regards to the whole stats attacking thing – Day9 from Starcraft once said that stats should be viewed more as a measure of self-improvement and not as a measure of skill. In the SC2 universe, this is a concept that’s pretty much generally accepted to be true, and I think this is very applicable to WoT.

 

Sure, the 2200 WN7 player is better than the 1500 WN7 player, but when the #s are kind of close, it really does not say much. This is because we’re all playing the game our own way – it’s not like we’re taking the same SAT exam. Some people may find TCs fun, and people may platoon more than others. Some people may find 1 semi-weak tank super addictive to play and play it all day. Some people may only play in CWs. These all affect your stats either positively or negatively, and 2 people of equal skill would produce different stats given these factors.

 

Things like 2% winrate difference or 200 WN7 doesn’t really mean so much when you are comparing between 2 people for this reason. But for an individual, if you are playing similar vehicles and your stats have gotten better by 200 points over 60 days – now that’s where stats like WN7 are useful.

 

(please don’t hate me for stat denying ~~~~)

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Well there you go, finally a violation of the rules. Better give them their 24hr bans and get it over with then, right?

that is the punishment for griefing...so ya, following the rules, that would be the outcome. 

 

although that says to me that rules just need to be changed, and maybe the way that contests are done needs to be revamped to make this sort of think impossible. simple replay should be enough. sure there are those who dont have replay turned on, and as such cant compete, but its their choice, as its my choice to also not use it. i dont know thats the fix. it seems that wg could just have a filter that saves all replays over a set amount of exp when they run competitions and solve all this. no user imput at all. don't submit anything. then wg just announces the winners and releases the few replays to show everyone who won, earned it. 

 

wouldnt that solve the issue?

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Well there you go, finally a violation of the rules. Better give them their 24hr bans and get it over with then, right?

 

I would call for a deterrent sentence, given how flagrant it was.

 

that is the punishment for griefing...so ya, following the rules, that would be the outcome. 

 

although that says to me that rules just need to be changed, and maybe the way that contests are done needs to be revamped to make this sort of think impossible. simple replay should be enough. sure there are those who dont have replay turned on, and as such cant compete, but its their choice, as its my choice to also not use it. i dont know thats the fix. it seems that wg could just have a filter that saves all replays over a set amount of exp when they run competitions and solve all this. no user imput at all. don't submit anything. then wg just announces the winners and releases the few replays to show everyone who won, earned it. 

 

wouldnt that solve the issue?

 

Solving the issue involves giving recompense to those disadvantaged by such a rig, surely I can't be the only one here who believes they should award the first place prize to the second place and so on down the totem pole?

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I would call for a deterrent sentence, given how flagrant it was.

 

 

Solving the issue involves giving recompense to those disadvantaged by such a rig, surely I can't be the only one here who believes they should award the first place prize to the second place and so on down the totem pole?

 

You should get a job with WADA, at least they do a better job of writing out the rules. But in the meantime you can figure out retroactive punishments for athletes in sports you don't have governance over, because the athletes used techniques and technologies not yet against the rules...cool?

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I would call for a deterrent sentence, given how flagrant it was.

 

 

Solving the issue involves giving recompense to those disadvantaged by such a rig, surely I can't be the only one here who believes they should award the first place prize to the second place and so on down the totem pole?

seeing how there is no way to know that second and third and so forth didnt do the same thing, and as best i can tell its not explicitly against the rules(beyond griefing, which isnt enough for losing out on a prize/perma-banning, never has been, why start now) even though i dont like it, they competed in the competition within the rules. so all you can do is make sure it doesnt happen again. you cant make what was done against the rules, then punish retroactively. 

 

crab beat me to my point :(

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He's got the nerve and means to bypass WGs not so well thought out rules and he got the prize.

The only physical (pixel) victim is that one single player who couldn't get in the top XP because of KingAlphyn.

Those who feel offended by such bypassing are, well, entitled to express their anger and despise the said 'cheater'.

 

WG really should reward that one victim by giving the prize he could have won without the rig

and regarding KingAlphyn isn't it enough punishment that those who despise him do so ?

 

Faulty - WG

Crook who could do it and has done it - KingAlphyn

Victim - That guy who could have won

 

Not that I have any stake in it or beef with anyone involved, just wanted to say what seemed to be natural for me.

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You should get a job with WADA, at least they do a better job of writing out the rules. But in the meantime you can figure out retroactive punishments for athletes in sports you don't have governance over, because the athletes used techniques and technologies not yet against the rules...cool?

 

seeing how there is no way to know that second and third and so forth didnt do the same thing, and as best i can tell its not explicitly against the rules(beyond griefing, which isnt enough for losing out on a prize/banning, never has been, why start now) even though i dont like it, the competed in the competition within the rules. so all you can do is make sure it doesnt happen again. you cant make what was done against the rules, then punish retroactively.

 

It's not retroactive, he's confessed to rigging it before, that's a confession to prior griefing.

 

And as to the rules, I could put it in standard legal terms

 

- Regular throwing a match is a form of griefing.

- Throwing a match with intent to swindle rightly-deserving players would obviously be a more serious form of griefing.

He's got the nerve and means to bypass WGs not so well thought out rules and he got the prize.

The only physical (pixel) victim is that one single player who couldn't get in the top XP because of KingAlphyn.

Those who feel offended by such bypassing are, well, entitled to express their anger and despise the said 'cheater'.

 

WG really should reward that one victim by giving the prize he could have won without the rig

and regarding KingAlphyn isn't it enough punishment that those who despise him do so ?

 

Faulty - WG

Crook who could do it and have done it - KingAlphyn

Victim - That guy who could have won

 

Not that I have any stake in it or beef with anyone involved, just wanted to say what seemed to be natural for me.

Doesn't really change the whole "crook" part.

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Gotta agree with crab 100% here. (shocking I know)

 

KA, discussed EXACTLY this problem in previous contests. WGNA did NOTHING to fix it. He said, "here is the blueprint for 'cheating'*, here is how you do it. Please fix". They did nothing.

 

 

In the absence of a gatekeeper to stop someone from doing something lame... the best approach is to DO THAT LAME THING AND PUBLICLY GET AS MANY PEOPLE TO DO IT UNTIL IT IS FIXED!

 

 

So yeah... A  big whatever. I'm much more upset about how WGNA treated jacg than I am about KA's count in and rig. Dumb contests deserve to be broken.

 

 

 

 

 

*cheating in quotes because I think we all agree it violates the spirit, but it doesn't actually violate any part of the EULA except MAYBE "greifing". Whatever that is. Personally I think 3 ARMED members on my team is "griefing" but whatever.

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It's not retroactive, he's confessed to rigging it before, that's a confession to prior griefing.

 

And as to the rules, I could put it in standard legal terms

 

- Regular throwing a match is a form of griefing.

- Throwing a match with intent to swindle rightly-deserving players would obviously be a more serious form of griefing.

Doesn't really change the whole "crook" part.

 

I was talking about the Tour de France bro. 

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Was it right for him to do that? No

Were the rules for the contest worth a damn to prevent rigging? No

Was this pointed out to WG at any time? Yes, by the person who did the rigging

 

If he hasn't broken any rules I don't support a ban, if they're going to start banning people for being a dick there's going to be a lot of bans flying around and a much lower server population.  I still don't think he should have rigged it but this is something that was pointed out to WG multiple times and they failed to address it.  They are equally at fault here and had plenty of opportunities to change the rules to prevent this or to give themselves a means of punishing someone who did this, they chose to ignore it and do neither.

 

 

Going forward (IMO):

  1. Fix the damn rules
  2. Also award the prize to the person who missed out on it because of the rigging
  3. Make it known that with the changed rules in place this behavior will be punished severely in the future

 

Of course, this is Wargaming we're dealing with so their list probably looks more like:

  1. Ignore this whole issue, have Serb call the people complaining accountants again.
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So yeah... A  big whatever. I'm much more upset about how WGNA treated jacg than I am about KA's count in and rig. Dumb contests deserve to be broken.

 

 

*cheating in quotes because I think we all agree it violates the spirit, but it doesn't actually violate any part of the EULA except MAYBE "greifing". Whatever that is. Personally I think 3 ARMED members on my team is "griefing" but whatever.

 

Exactly, if they're gonna be rule-following cunts, let them be, it cuts two ways. 

 

And yea, stand down platoons of baddies, intention or not, also griefing? Lets go ahead and try to prove "intent" in tanks here!

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Exactly, if they're gonna be rule-following cunts, let them be, it cuts two ways. 

 

And yea, stand down platoons of baddies, intention or not, also griefing? Lets go ahead and try to prove "intent" in tanks here!

 

I wouldn't mind it ARMED were suddenly disappeared from the game, most of them probably got that low WR by griefing anyway

 

Was it right for him to do that? No

Were the rules for the contest worth a damn to prevent rigging? No

Was this pointed out to WG at any time? Yes, by the person who did the rigging

 

If he hasn't broken any rules I don't support a ban, if they're going to start banning people for being a dick there's going to be a lot of bans flying around and a much lower server population.  I still don't think he should have rigged it but this is something that was pointed out to WG multiple times and they failed to address it.  They are equally at fault here and had plenty of opportunities to change the rules to prevent this or to give themselves a means of punishing someone who did this, they chose to ignore it and do neither.

 

Going forward (IMO):

  • Fix the damn rules
  • Also award the prize to the person who missed out on it because of the rigging
  • Make it known that with the changed rules in place this behavior will be punished severely in the future
Of course, this is Wargaming we're dealing with so their list probably looks more like:
  • Ignore this whole issue, have Serb call the people complaining accountants again.

Ordering eight people to throw a game in public is griefing, it's just that instead of eight of the enemy team committing suicide, to help him win, they decided to let him kill them.

How would YOU like to be on the team with the eight PUPEHs who threw the game? 

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I wouldn't mind it ARMED were suddenly disappeared from the game, most of them probably got that low WR by griefing anyway

 

Ordering eight people to throw a game in public is griefing, it's just that instead of eight of the enemy team committing suicide, to help him win, they decided to let him kill them.

How would YOU like to be on the team with the eight PUPEHs who threw the game? 

 

Irritating, but no worse than the game where our stugg one shotted my bison to start the game.

 

Again dude. Bad rules should be abused till they are changed. Bad Laws must be abused until absurd situations abound. Don't blame me because WGNA writes bad rules. Its not hard to write good ones. IT IS LITERALLY NOT HARD. Crab and I could manage CW, tournies, and contests 10000% better than WGNA does right now... and we could do it in 4 hours each a day.

 

 

Look at this forum. Its already 1000000000x better then the official one because being an asshat in punished and people are allowed to abuse retards.

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I wouldn't mind it ARMED were suddenly disappeared from the game, most of them probably got that low WR by griefing anyway

 

Ordering eight people to throw a game in public is griefing, it's just that instead of eight of the enemy team committing suicide, to help him win, they decided to let him kill them.

How would YOU like to be on the team with the eight PUPEHs who threw the game? 

 

I wouldn't, in fact I'd be quite pissed.

 

If griefing has a penalty in the rules then I'd absolutely support applying it here.  My main point is that they need to fix the clearly broken rules which would enable appropriate punishment for and prevention of this behavior going forward.

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Irritating, but no worse than the game where our stugg one shotted my bison to start the game.

 

Again dude. Bad rules should be abused till they are changed. Bad Laws must be abused until absurd situations abound. Don't blame me because WGNA writes bad rules. Its not hard to write good ones. IT IS LITERALLY NOT HARD. Crab and I could manage CW, tournies, and contests 10000% better than WGNA does right now... and we could do it in 4 hours each a day.

 

 

Look at this forum. Its already 1000000000x better then the official one because being an asshat in punished and people are allowed to abuse retards.

 

So you wish to deny that it was griefing? Rigging a contest is pretty much in the purview of that term.

The only physical (pixel) victim is that one single player who couldn't get in the top XP because of KingAlphyn.

 

...

 

Faulty - WG

Crook who could do it and have done it - KingAlphyn

Victim - That guy who could have won

 

Not that I have any stake in it or beef with anyone involved, just wanted to say what seemed to be natural for me.

 

Faulty: WG TK Detection System

Crooks who can do it and do do it: TKers

Victim: One or two people

 

I mean, the only physical (pixel) victim of a TKer is his one or two victims at any point of time, let's not punish TKing.

If you're going to punish TKing for causing your team to lose, you MUST punish such a rig more.

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 Being a person who likes to try out the new tanks, (and go for gold) this is sickening. It took me 100 battles to get my gold winning 1.2k exp match in my pz1c. I think he needs at least a one month ban. Due to this being cheating, and due to the fact that broke the winning place for the competition.

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 Being a person who likes to try out the new tanks, (and go for gold) this is sickening. It took me 100 battles to get my gold winning 1.2k exp match in my pz1c. I think he needs at least a one month ban. Due to this being cheating, and due to the fact that broke the winning place for the competition.

is it cheating? i dont see where it says you cant do that. griefing is a stretch. even if you accept griefing, its 24 hours at best, not a month. you cant punish based on what makes sense, you have to do it by the rules.

 

think about it. he posted several times about how this was going to happen.he posted how it wasnt against the rules to do exactly that. he then said that all competitions will likely be won that way.

 

the rules never changed at all. so he didnt really break any of the rules.(griefing is possible, but if a competition winner called a player a noob at the beginning of a match should they get a month ban and lose the prise?)

 

as much as you want to hate a player, this is wg's mistake. (unless i misread something, or missed where they state that you cant do that, always willing to modify my stance on any subject. just dont say, i feel it should be this way or that way. your feelings are irrelevant. show me what rules he broke and the normal punishment for breaking that rule)

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