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Nalyk

PvE? What the heck?

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http://worldofwarplanes.com/en/news/7/world-warplanes-developers-diaries-part-7/

 

In it they talk about making GA more important to the game.  And adding bots to help curtail the lack of people playing.  

 

I'm not overly excited about either prospect to be honest.  As it is, I hate it losing to superiority. 

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As a GA player, I look forward to GA planes for other nations.

 

And to be honest, bots could probably fly better than most of the 0.5 rated players that ruin matches for everyone.

 

However, they way everything is balanced right now is just a nightmare and as a result these changes will probably just make life more painful.

 

From the sound of the video, it seems like they will be changing the value of the ground targets, which is something I agree with. It doesn't make much sense that an AA gun is worth the same as a Convoy despite the latter have 3x hitpoints.

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As a GA player, I look forward to GA planes for other nations.

 

And to be honest, bots could probably fly better than most of the 0.5 rated players that ruin matches for everyone.

 

However, they way everything is balanced right now is just a nightmare and as a result these changes will probably just make life more painful.

 

From the sound of the video, it seems like they will be changing the value of the ground targets, which is something I agree with. It doesn't make much sense that an AA gun is worth the same as a Convoy despite the latter have 3x hitpoints.

 

I suppose that's true, I wouldn't really mind new lines for people to work on.  Always seeing ruskie GA is getting rather tiresome.

 

I'm curious to see how bee-lining straight for the HQ will affect superiority or other high priority targets.  I feel that it may inspire players to turn the game into more of a camp fest over high value targets especially if they are crucial to winning the superiority battle. 

 

I suppose my biggest issue is I feel that superiority hasn't ever really felt like it's part of the game as a whole.  It's just there.  It's that ticking clock looming over you that you ignore when you're fighting in a furball.  Then 3 minutes later you're out and still kicking only to find that the lone GA on the other team has been busy and all the work you put in has been for nothing.  I find this to be especially annoying when there are 5 fighters to 1 GA left.  I guess I've always just felt that it's a tacked on mechanic.  The Capture the Flag part of WoT never felt like this, at least to me....

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2 issues in my eyes:

 

1) PvE in a PvP game is just the WRONG focus. You should be focusing on the core of the gameplay and not the peripheral stuff. Like a good business plan, focus on delivering value. So if you make burgers, focus on making great burgers; no one is going to care about your milkshakes (until AFTER your burgers are great).

 

2) The supremacy mechanic just sucks and making it more complex will not make it better. The problem with supremacy is NOT its simplicity so adding complexity will, at best, do nothing or at worst exacerbate the problem.

 

UGH.

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2 issues in my eyes:

 

1) PvE in a PvP game is just the WRONG focus. You should be focusing on the core of the gameplay and not the peripheral stuff. Like a good business plan, focus on delivering value. So if you make burgers, focus on making great burgers; no one is going to care about your milkshakes (until AFTER your burgers are great).

 

2) The supremacy mechanic just sucks and making it more complex will not make it better. The problem with supremacy is NOT its simplicity so adding complexity will, at best, do nothing or at worst exacerbate the problem.

 

UGH.

 

What troubles me the most is that when you play GA, unless you actively seek out confrontation with fighters and heavies, you may as well be playing a different game.  The superemacy mechanic, and fighting till everyone's dead just don't mesh very well together in my eyes.

 

Though if the complexity of GA is increased, I might be more interested in playing it...MIGHT.  On the other hand if complexity is increased perhaps the heavy fighters that hit GA right off the bat will be nonplussed and actually contribute to the game. Instead of dying uselessly with 0 kills and 0 GT destroyed.

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The reason why GA don't generally fight planes is because of the shitty altitude band system. Thanks to this and their awful climb rates it's actually bloody hard to spend much time fighting planes in a GA. Most players don't even bother.

 

I don't think there is a problem with the supremacy mechanic. I actually rather like it. It gives people an objective and also a time limit. Complaining about supremacy because GA win a game with GT supremacy one in every 50 or so matches is, frankly, silly. I'm pretty sure that if you do an analysis on match results you'll find that most matches are won by Elimination, most of the rest are won by Aerial Supremacy and the tiny remaining portion are won by GT supremacy.

 

The problem with the GA mechanic at the moment, besides what I said in my first line, is that it's basically GA only and it's the only thing GA get to do. WG have essentially segregrated each team into two parts with neither being able to contribute to the others game much. While I get that they want each class to have it's thing (GAs: Killing GTs, HF: BnZ, LF: TF) I think that they've gone too far with the artificial divisions.

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I don't think there is a problem with the supremacy mechanic.

 

...

 

WG have essentially segregrated each team into two parts with neither being able to contribute to the others game much.

 

That doesn't provide any cognitive dissonance for you?

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That doesn't provide any cognitive dissonance for you?

 

Point taken :-)

 

What I was trying to get at was that I don't have a problem with the overall concept of a supremacy system, just their implementation of said system. I think removing the supremacy system entirely would make the game less interesting (Same as if you removed capping from WoT entirely). With that said, they way it works now is a pain.

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After some more thought, I'm not completely opposed to bots for "training wheels" mode or such.  Part of the problem with the game is that noobs don't get the skills and knowledge they need from the tutorials, wiki etc.  And with MM in its current state, they survive the Tier 2 trolls only to get to Tier 3, where they face a long grind going against Tier 5s almost every game.  If a PVE mode can help ease the transition into the game and help keep people in the game, so much the better.

 

I would say something needed to be done about the ground game, just not sure this is it.  What I took away was not that they're making supremacy more important, just GA aircraft by making certain targets only they GAs reliably kill.  If this can keep dumbasses from spending the whole game focusing on GTs in light fighters, it could be a good thing.

 

I would really rather have seen something done about AA, as it's pretty retarded in its current state.  Long range and laser-accurate with/without HQ and can't be dodged AT ALL but can only fire on a single plane at a time no matter how many guns.  Stupid.

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You know what making GA "more important" feels like? It feels like putting a bunker in the cap circle in WoT that slows down your cap rate and only arty can destroy it...

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You know what making GA "more important" feels like? It feels like putting a bunker in the cap circle in WoT that slows down your cap rate and only arty can destroy it...

 

Don't give WG any ideas, dammit!

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You know what my issue with GA is?

 

I'm out raping faces in my IL2 (mod) premium. I got an air kill, a couple air assists, sank some ships, life is good. I drop four bombs on the HQ, doing a shit ton of damage and leaving it at 500ish health, before I can circle around to strafe it and finish it off.... Some punkass twerp in a tier 3 Tshshshshshsh comes along and takes credit for all that damage I did. I did like 6k damage to the HQ, he did about 500. Why the fuck does he get credit for the 3 supremacy points and I don't? Oh yeah, he's also literally so bad that he crashes into the rubble of the HQ cause he can't pull up in time.

 

And he gets more xp for that shit than I did for the 6k-ish damage?

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Well, WoWP emphasises any kind of kill a lot more than WoT does.

 

In a tier 5 plane 1000 damage and 0 kills seem roughly equivalent to 6 kills and 150 damage.

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Well, WoWP emphasises any kind of kill a lot more than WoT does.

 

In a tier 5 plane 1000 damage and 0 kills seem roughly equivalent to 6 kills and 150 damage.

 

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.  I feel like damage should almost be rewarded more in planes than it is in tanks.  Especially for fighters and heavies, perhaps based on maneuverability.  

 

GA's damaging fighters get an xp bonus because it's more difficult for them to bring their guns to bear.  And other planes could get bonuses based on either their top speed and maneuverability or something.  Just a thought...

 

The downside to this is that it would completely screw the meta.  And I don't think it should apply at all to anyone attacking Ground Targets.

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Honestly, I find my GA get more experience damaging planes than hitting GTs. The XP and Silver rate for GTs is shockingly low. I've had matches where I came out with Thunder and still got rubbish XP and Silver. By contrast, matches where I've done 1k damage to air targets are much more profitable in terms of XP and Silver.

 

If there is a GT XP bonus, it's pathetic.

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As well it should be!  You're shooting at a stationary target!  You should be rewarded for shooting planes because its hard as heck to do in a GA.

 

I suppose this goes without saying but I think with GT's is more about quantity.  But I feel that once you reach a certain amount of damage or GT kills that it doesn't plateau, or that the growth isn't linear.  It almost seems like it increases more(steeper) when you have more kills than compared to say 3 GT's destroyed. 

 

Does anyone else feel the same or am I completely high?

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The game needs PVE to keep people around who find the game too hard.

 

I can take losing an energy fight like a man and I go down in flames just like GA do every time I ride their ass...unless I fly too low and die from farking bombs...

 

Ugh, is it sad that I giggle a little when GA named "xxxXXX_Wurst_GA_Player_NA_XXXxxx" nose dives into a GT and I sing Queen  - Another one bites the dust to myself...

 

 

Yeah, I saw that, and sold my IL-2 so I wouldn't be temped to participate.

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The game needs PVE to keep people around who find the game too hard.

 

That is just so sad though...

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The game needs PVE to keep people around who find the game too hard.

 

Those people should play WT. It's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay easier in Arcade mode.

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WT Arcade is so weird to me... Load up a PBY with 1000# bombs, point nose in direction of enemy base, go get coffee. Come back to computer, drop bombs, and start a wide circle back over base that will take 30 seconds. Drop bombs, repeat until the match ends.

 

OR load up a fighter, go shoot someone down. Have them respawn with higher energy than you, lose fight. Respawn with higher energy, win fight!

 

Not trying to start a WT vs WoWP derail, but both games treat ground attack so oddly...

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WT Arcade is so weird to me... Load up a PBY with 1000# bombs, point nose in direction of enemy base, go get coffee. Come back to computer, drop bombs, and start a wide circle back over base that will take 30 seconds. Drop bombs, repeat until the match ends.

 

OR load up a fighter, go shoot someone down. Have them respawn with higher energy than you, lose fight. Respawn with higher energy, win fight!

 

Not trying to start a WT vs WoWP derail, but both games treat ground attack so oddly...

 

You should have seen the bomber spam (I forget which one exactly, it might have been Yers... definitely a Russian dive-bomber though) that plagued tier IVish arcade for a good long while. Matches ended in less than a minute since these bombers would go straight for the airfield and bomb it in one go. Shot them down? Spawn another and try again.

 

That was pretty much what engraved the mindset of hating bombers in WT for me. That and the fact that US pilots spam the B17s against Germany in RB all day long too...

 

It'd be interesting to see how high-altitude bombers would impact WoWP if flown by players. They'd be less of a hassle to shoot down in theory (so long as they fly high as they are supposed to) since we wouldn't need to dive down to the deck just to take them out. Of course, the gunner accuracy would need a ton of balancing to make sure it wasn't pinpoint accurate, and the crew management would be a nightmare compared to the simple pilots and single gunners we have to put up with now.

 

Despite those obstacles, it would be interesting to see how it would impact WoWP regardless. Not that I would fly them at all, but i'm just theorizing.

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WT Arcade is so weird to me... Load up a PBY with 1000# bombs, point nose in direction of enemy base, go get coffee. Come back to computer, drop bombs, and start a wide circle back over base that will take 30 seconds. Drop bombs, repeat until the match ends.

 

OR load up a fighter, go shoot someone down. Have them respawn with higher energy than you, lose fight. Respawn with higher energy, win fight!

 

Not trying to start a WT vs WoWP derail, but both games treat ground attack so oddly...

 

I just play fighters in WT mainly and just mostly stay low. Honestly, energy is not really a big deal in WT Arcade as far as I've seen. It's easy to climb and easy to turn-fight, even in an IL-2. With that said, it does annoy me how you sometimes spot some bomber 5km up and can't reach him in time to deal with him. I just ignore him and try to kill as many enemies as possible, which seems to work pretty well.

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