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Theory: Being A Unicum Is Harder Than Ever

  

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  1. 1. Is it harder to be a unicum now than it was a year ago, disregarding WN* ratings?

    • Yes, it is, WG is cutting too much slack to bad players and punishing the 1% of the userbase for being good. My Leo 1 is collecting dust atm.
      62
    • No, being a unicum is easier than ever what with all the guides and heavy armor I have. All praise the IS-7!
      27


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. But make the guns of td's better performing.

 

 

lol

 

Thats what makes these fucking noob vehicles OP beside their viewrange, and you want buff them? These fucking guns in combination with noobammo is making everyone camp.

 

reduce t10 TD viewrange by at least 30m across the board and removing gold ammo for t10 TDs. If you are to retarded to pen with 300mm you deserve to bounce all game long.

 

An other step would be to roll back the sigma change from 0.8.6  - that would fix an fuckload of problems and make LTs and Meds more usefull again as Scouts and would mean an indirect buff to tanks like the JT and force russian and chinese tanks to stop sniping all game long.

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It seems a few people in this thread didn't understand what I was going for with the OP, or I was not clear enough, so I'll reword myself a bit

There are 2 problems with "neo-unica" that we all will have to convert to in due time

 

1. WG is changing maps so that tank destroyers are directly nerfed due to shorter engagement ranges and less camouflage to abuse

...this also affects medium tanks and ESPECIALLY light tanks, as SURPRISINGLY there are more classes than non-turreted ones that rely on camo to get their work done

And even more surprisingly, without camouflage and distance to work with, they are so blatantly inferior to any heavy tank that they quickly turn from game carriers to cannon fodder

 

2. It is massively dumbing down the game

While some of you will welcome the change and think it is making armor "more relevant again," it already is

Armor is a huge thing in this game despite what the Maus and E 100 players will yell at you when someone shoots gold at their completely unangled turrets

When maps are being remade as they are, you won't have a choice anymore to play a medium or heavy tank if you want to stay unicum, you play a heavy or get the fuck out because nothing else will be relevant except for corner peeking TDs

 

Hell, even forgetting about the "need to be unicum" for a moment, how does this affect the average player who doesn't care about stats? Is it fun to get put on Severogorsk as a medium and face off versus something that sends you back to the garage in 2-3 shots?

What fun is it being a light tank when every map is just Himmelsdorf with different scenery?

 

My problem isn't the fact that unica have to adapt to this (highly inferior) meta game per se, it's that YOU DON'T HAVE A CHOICE to play anything else, the only point of playing them will be to gamble on the odd 1/4 chance of getting Malinovka instead of Ruinberg, Himmelsdorf, Tundra, Ruinberg, El Halluf, Airfield... the list goes on and on

 

I WANT to be able to play mediums and light tanks, just as someone wants to be able to play heavies or tank destroyers

If you screw over the medium, light, and tank destroyer playerbase while spoonfeeding heavies more cover and corridors, what the hell does WG expect me to do from a moral stand point? Oh wait, free XP heavy lines with gold, right

 

The devs of a F2P want to tighten up the skillgap? Strike me dead. 

 

As noted earlier in the Q3A to CoD analogy, skill based PvP games aren't favored in the video game market. WoT's skillgap (ever closing with alpha, mechanics and map changes) is what attracted me here. The last PvP game I played seriously was counter-strike and before that Q3A. But ultimately, over 15 years of gaming, I've accepted that the market isn't really going to support any PvP based game where the tolerance for winning is outside of 5-10% or so from a coin-flip. The masses love their coin-flips, because it salves egos, and happy egos pay the money. 

 

At least indie gaming exists, but its a testament to the lack of good formats for competition that CS 1.6 is STILL PLAYED. 

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lol

 

Thats what makes these fucking noob vehicles OP beside their viewrange, and you want buff them? These fucking guns in combination with noobammo is making everyone camp.

 

reduce t10 TD viewrange by at least 30m across the board and removing gold ammo for t10 TDs. If you are to retarded to pen with 300mm you deserve to bounce all game long.

 

An other step would be to roll back the sigma change from 0.8.6  - that would fix an fuckload of problems and make LTs and Meds more usefull again as Scouts and would mean an indirect buff to tanks like the JT and force russian and chinese tanks to stop sniping all game long.

 

Perhaps I have not explained myself clearly enough.

 

I meant to say that the TD guns should be 'best performing' when compared to other classes. \

Albeit at the expense of hp/armour/mobility and view range.

 

Oddly enough I would have thought I actually listed these things. Goes to show you are never clear enough. ;)

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http://wotreplays.com/site/1004517#severogorsk-cunicularius-vk_1602_leopard

I guess lights aren't obsolete...

I've been adjusting my play more and more away from vision control and more to pure flanking, vision control being a secondary role.

I mean... it can still be a bitch sometimes... but I'm starting to adjust.

I've stopped using binos and camo nets completely, my light tank doctrine has been rewritten to dictate a far more aggressive approach, which can be summed into "Search and Destroy"

Only when I am incapable of eliminating the enemy myself do I return to a traditional recon role, but this usually does not last as I maneuver to engage in more effective flanks.

All my lights now basically operate as Armored Fighting Vehicles, they are on the battlefield to hurt and abuse the enemy first, provide vision for the team second.

This may be completely at odds with their intended purpose, but as can be seen in the attached replay, it can be very effective.

It even works on traditional vision maps: http://wotreplays.com/site/1004517#severogorsk-cunicularius-vk_1602_leopard

 

So despite the importance of vision being diminished in some maps, the age of the lightly armored, mobile vehicle has not come to an end.

Certain TDs however, such as the Sturer Emil, will undoubtedly continue to suffer though.

But to say that it will become impossible for good players to overachieve in these sorts of vehicles may not be so true after all.

It just requires some thought and a little finesse. 

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I used to play a ton of TDs and never really played heavies with the exception of pref8s.  I saw the writing on the wall a while ago though and started learning to play strong mediums and tier 10 heavies better.  Now I predominately play tanks like T62a and STB1 for mediums for their ability to utilize hull down positions and brawl when needed and either avoid or bounce shots or heavies like IS-7, IS-4 and E100 for their ability to be aggressive and have effective armor while brawling.  

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WG intended scouts to spot unseen, tank destroyers to either ambush from camouflage (which means they get ONE shot off, then are lit to everyone), heavies to directly engage at close range, and for mediums to use mobility with moderate armor and firepower to flank engagements, take out scouts, get around tank destroyers in CQC and to generally influence the battle by tactical play and mobile warfare.

 

What we have now:

 

Scouts are nearly useless, as mediums have the same (or more) view range, are almost as fast and have 5x the firepower. Tank destroyers have to either have some sketchy gimmick (183,Foch,  waffle) be basically an upgunned heavy (E4) or a bunker (E3) to be competitve - traditional TDs like the 268 are rarely seen now as they are simply not effective. Heavy tanks can still brawl, but complain about getting dominated by TDs in frontal engagements in narrow corridors (no shit sherlock).  Why did WG have to make the maps so favourable to heavies and TDs?

 

Because tier 10 mediums are broken.

 

Current tier 10 mediums have more penetration and DPM then heavies with better gun handling. Many have almost the same alpha (390 vs 400) and the ones with 320 have nearly invulnerable turrets at any range over 200m with buzzsaw DPM. They have 400m view range + high camouflage, amplified by crew skills and paint. They have nearly as much HP (about the same as most TDs) and while their armor lacks thickness, a lot of them are cold war era so they have plenty of autobounce zones. To make it worse, they are basically hovercraft.

 

In the environment of a random battle, these traits are quite simply broken. A tier 10 medium can deal 800-900 damage to a heavy before most heavies can aim their guns in, then has a 50% chance of bouncing the shot anyways. If mediums were brought more into line, then TDs wouldn't need to be so powerful and the maps could go back to a more normal state.

 

To fix tier 10 mediums:

 

Take 20 APCR penetration off every gun, except for the Leo 1 (which really needs the gun, as it makes up for it in other areas)

Take 30 pen off their HEAT round

Take 20 meters off their view range

 

Mediums should not have guns which outperform heavies. I would rather have the T62As gun on my IS-7 - better penetration, handling and DPM on a tank which never did rely on alpha damage. That is an issue.

 

The old tier 9 mediums were balanced in tier 10 games, and they had ~220 pen and 1800 HP. The current tier 10s are just too much.

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It's worth noting that 400 is not the average alpha of a heavy tank. The E5's 120mm is actually quite lightweight for a T10 heavy, which average around 500 damage. It's more accurate to compare things to the 490 damage cannons you see on the IS-7 and Maus, which puts mediums in a very balanced spot. I'd also disagree with the whole "they can deal 800-900 damage before a heavy can aim". Most T10 heavies aim pretty quickly, the only way for a medium to get off that much damage is by flanking/circling/terrain abuse, which is absolutely fine as that's the way mediums should be able to stay competitive.

 

Certainly some T10 mediums are a bit too much, but that just comes down to a large portion of them being equipped with 100mm buzzsaws. Giving a very high DPM/acc gun is fine on one tank, but by the time you've put it on three things start getting out of hand. There's nothing wrong with how the E-50M/Patton/4202/121/Leo's weapons compare to their heavy brethren.

 

Outside of T10? I don't see anything wrong at all, the meta between heavy/mediums/TDs are fine. The only thing that isn't fine are the maps.

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I weep for the future.

 

There is no incentive to be good at this game. In the past you got called out for being shit. So at least that was some incentive to not be a complete retard.

 

Now? You just run to WG and whine and oops them haters are banned. Hey WG he called me bad. I report, I file ticket, I complain. Since I cant play the game worth a damn, i'll spend my time fucking it up for all those no life basement dwellers.

 

Notice the amazing chat ban purge and forum ban purge that has been going on.

 

Notice the stupid nerfs and buffs that are going on to both tanks and maps. Some are needed, but most are founded upon delusion of 40% shitlords.

 

The final coffin in this game will be when they completely destroy prem ammo. Wait for it.  I seriously question anybody above retard IQ who thinks this is a good idea... (the rebalance after credit purchases was opened was needed, obviously).

 

Basically WG has a policy to cater to the dumbest fucks because they know the dumbest fucks are too dumb to call them out on their incompetence. Unicums are bad. Uniscums are bad. Blunicums are bad. They question. The see flaws. They exploit. They force WG to do something other than collect $ from bads that can't turn a profit in an fcm even.

 

Which is why updates have always been aimed at the retards. Eye candy vs game mechanic fixes. Who does that please? The retards. They only care about eye candy.

 

We are now at the point where all this is culminating into something noticeable enough that its hard to deny. Being good tougher than before since you have more factors working against you. Its not a conspiracy either, its just what happens when 1 group is predominantly being appeased at the expense of another.

I've been ROd on the official forums for the most innocuous things recently. They are really cracking down on anything that isn't unicorns and rainbows or brainless complaining. 

 

edit: and the posts about needing to nerf mediums are just silly. The hardest class to play successfully solo in the changing meta is what is responsible for your tears? Like people have said EVERY map is devolving into corridor peakaboo battles. Not much place for even t62as in that space. 

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Heavies are the come all end all of tanks? Why exactly should they be the best?

That goes completely against what you said yourself, if you want things to be balanced why should heavies be the best?

TDs are still too strong, yes, but heavies are far from weak as a whole, especially not at tier 10

 

There will always be one class better, and from a balancing point of view its the ``best`` if this is the slowest and easiest to play (noobproof) class,

 

Mediums might be more interesting and better for good players, but 90% of the wot players can not handle mediums, so this only creates huge unbalance and terrible gameplay (like current tier 10...)

To fix tier 10 mediums:

 

Take 20 APCR penetration off every gun, except for the Leo 1 (which really needs the gun, as it makes up for it in other areas)

Take 30 pen off their HEAT round

Take 20 meters off their view range

 

Mediums should not have guns which outperform heavies. I would rather have the T62As gun on my IS-7 - better penetration, handling and DPM on a tank which never did rely on alpha damage. That is an issue.

 

The old tier 9 mediums were balanced in tier 10 games, and they had ~220 pen and 1800 HP. The current tier 10s are just too much.

 

Agree, tier 10 meds are armor / mobility wise (way) to weak, and have OP guns....

 

It's worth noting that 400 is not the average alpha of a heavy tank. The E5's 120mm is actually quite lightweight for a T10 heavy, which average around 500 damage. It's more accurate to compare things to the 490 damage cannons you see on the IS-7 and Maus, which puts mediums in a very balanced spot. I'd also disagree with the whole "they can deal 800-900 damage before a heavy can aim". Most T10 heavies aim pretty quickly, the only way for a medium to get off that much damage is by flanking/circling/terrain abuse, which is absolutely fine as that's the way mediums should be able to stay competitive.

 

Certainly some T10 mediums are a bit too much, but that just comes down to a large portion of them being equipped with 100mm buzzsaws. Giving a very high DPM/acc gun is fine on one tank, but by the time you've put it on three things start getting out of hand. There's nothing wrong with how the E-50M/Patton/4202/121/Leo's weapons compare to their heavy brethren.

 

Outside of T10? I don't see anything wrong at all, the meta between heavy/mediums/TDs are fine. The only thing that isn't fine are the maps.

 

Avg dmg for a heavy is 400-440:

- 400: E5, T57, 50b, Fv-215

- 440: 113, IS4,

- 490: IS7, Maus

- 750: E100

 

the only tanks with more as 440 are total worthless or OP (E100)

 

Tier 10 meds are also broke / unbalanced, just as tier 10 Tds...

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Just going off the literal average here, which is 496. The 50B and T57 aren't actually 400 alpha (autoloaders don't count and are likely to do 800+ any given situation), so you just have the 215 and E5 in the 400 damage class.

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Well, median would be more appropriate than average. The median is 440, as there are 4 tanks with less, and 3 tanks with more than 440 alpha.

 

I do agree with Rexxie, though-- removing the spike damage for the 'loaders would still leave 440 as the median... Adding in the VK7201 would raise the median to 490.

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The 490 damage guns have terrible handling - only the 400 damage guns are anywhere near competitive to the T10 medium guns.

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Well, median would be more appropriate than average. The median is 440, as there are 4 tanks with less, and 3 tanks with more than 440 alpha.

 

I do agree with Rexxie, though-- removing the spike damage for the 'loaders would still leave 440 as the median... Adding in the VK7201 would raise the median to 490.

 

dunno about NA, but Vk72 is really rare once every 20 games (?) or so an Vk72?, same nobody drives an 113 if i see it once a week its much...

 

so including those, mweah.... :P

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The 490 damage guns have terrible handling - only the 400 damage guns are anywhere near competitive to the T10 medium guns.

And even with those guns t10 mediums (w/out prem) can sometimes struggle to pen t10 heavies from the front. Even prem can fail to pen some t10 heavies from the front when a modicum of cover/hulldown area is available. 

 

Would you be happy if t10 heavies were completely invulnerable to t10 meds from the front in all cases?

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Just going off the literal average here, which is 496. The 50B and T57 aren't actually 400 alpha (autoloaders don't count and are likely to do 800+ any given situation), so you just have the 215 and E5 in the 400 damage class.

mean isn't equivalent to average if were going to be technical.  It's arguably the literal definition, since most people don't know words well.  Which is retarded imo.  nontechnical definitions should have formulas.  

Semantics r fun tho.

 

More on topic, of course WG wants to get rid of alot of camosniping stuff.  One of the largest complaints I hear from new players who quit is getting killed by shit they can't see.   Simplest solution for WG is to try to make it stop.  although doesnt really work cause they still have those shitty low tier maps (Province) where you get killed by things you cant see ./new players leave confused.  

Keep in mind It is WG so trying to look for the reasoning behind their decisions is scary, so I will now skitter away in fear. ./ff

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Rant mode on.

 

I dont play this game for 4 months and this is main reason why. Second one is ping from 50ish to 150ish.

 

Wargaming is working hard to make gameplay simpler. Maps are reworked in a way that all tanks are forced in 2-3 corridors. Spots that allowed vision  and map control are ruined. What this means is skillset required to play game changed. Intelligence (take it as you want, i will use this word for positioning, chosing right time to make moves, understanding flow of game etc...) played greater role before and with every update its importance is lessened. Instead of making timely push after counting tanks on minimap (btw minimap mods are cheats, they give way too much info) to win game or going back at correct time to decap, WOT is turning into mindless brawling in 2-3 corners of the  map. Reflexes and 1on1 skills are becoming more important at expense of intelligence. With my ping going to hell (doesnt help brawling) and tactical gameplay being reason why i was attracted in first place, its quite easy to understand why WOT is turn off for me atm.

 

TL;DR they are remaking maps and mechanics so gameplay gets more dumb and easier for average tomato to digest.

 

Rant mode off.

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In all honesty, stating high skill floor as a reason to not nerf is not a valid reason. It's like stating that a tank that can one shot anything in the game so long as you know where to aim the shot is balanced because the skill floor is higher than normal since only good players would know where to aim for that one shot.

I do not however think that mediums should be nerfed. Perhaps a rebalance of some of the guns on some of the mediums to give the class more flavor and variety instead of multiple high Dpm, low platform, decent gun handling meds. There is variety in meds as there is, however changing perhaps the Russian meds to each have a different niche to fill instead of being almost the same tank minus the 430's rear turret.

Variety is rarely bad and imo mediums could desperately use it for about half of the current mediums. Imo an ideal set up would be to have at a max 2 mediums being able to fit similar niches. Add a couple of jack of all trades like the e5 is for heavies and you have a very interesting class that can all see usage in clan wars based on map needs. This is not saying that they are absolute garbage outside of their niche, just that they can fulfill different roles.

It is WG however and we'll see what ends up happening. This is after all the people who brought you the wte100.

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And even with those guns t10 mediums (w/out prem) can sometimes struggle to pen t10 heavies from the front. Even prem can fail to pen some t10 heavies from the front when a modicum of cover/hulldown area is available. 

 

Would you be happy if t10 heavies were completely invulnerable to t10 meds from the front in all cases?

 

If a tier 10 heavy can hide weakspots, it should be invulnerable to a medium. I don't mean cupolas, etc, but the hull. A tier 10 medium should not be able to pen an E-100s turret face. Heavies or TDs, fine. Not a medium. A medium with HEAT can pen an IS-7's UFP dead on if it gets a good roll, or even some pieces of the turret front. With APCR, it can pen with 15 degrees of side angle. A Maus turret is cheese to APCR unless angled, HEAT can pen at any angle and will get through the UFP on a high roll. 268 APCR pens the IS-4s UFP, can get through the beak of an E5 on a high roll (or the UFP if there is any down angle) and can pen the UFP of the FV215B easily with silver rounds.

 

Tier 10 mediums have better guns then most of the heavies. That is the problem. The guns on the heavies should hit harder, have more penetration, and be just as accurate. Medium tanks are supposed to trade armor for mobility, not get extra firepower on top of it (while keeping most of their armor in a lot of cases.)

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If a tier 10 heavy can hide weakspots, it should be invulnerable to a medium. I don't mean cupolas, etc, but the hull. A tier 10 medium should not be able to pen an E-100s turret face. Heavies or TDs, fine. Not a medium. A medium with HEAT can pen an IS-7's UFP dead on if it gets a good roll, or even some pieces of the turret front. With APCR, it can pen with 15 degrees of side angle. A Maus turret is cheese to APCR unless angled, HEAT can pen at any angle and will get through the UFP on a high roll. 268 APCR pens the IS-4s UFP, can get through the beak of an E5 on a high roll (or the UFP if there is any down angle) and can pen the UFP of the FV215B easily with silver rounds.

 

Tier 10 mediums have better guns then most of the heavies. That is the problem. The guns on the heavies should hit harder, have more penetration, and be just as accurate. Medium tanks are supposed to trade armor for mobility, not get extra firepower on top of it (while keeping most of their armor in a lot of cases.)

I may be wrong but I dont think any good medium drivers are loading heat and shooting for e5 beaks. With a great roll, sure you can pen some otherwise hard to pen armor but I know I never shoot at something and just pray for a good roll. Good med drivers take shots they are pretty sure will pen because to do otherwise is to expose your tank for nothing. 

 

The only medium that has NEAR heavy armor in the turret only is the 62a. Every other medium is distinctly inferior to heavies in that respect. The best ones have somewhat trollish turrets that allow you to peak and shoot and possibly bounce. Hull armor doesn't even come close. UFP on the e50m is the best of the bunch and it's really only proof against other t10 meds shooting silver ammo. e50m turret is autopen for anything 250+, t62 load heat and blap through it. 140 roof is swiss cheese. They are all so dependent on exposure time in order to be anything near effective. 

 

Mediums have traded armor for mobility, view range and dpm. If you take away their dpm and view range then there is practically no reason to play one. As it is every medium other than the russians and the e50m are suffering in the current meta (FOR MOST PEOPLE). 

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They can keep their DPM, but their penetration is too high. Mobility gives too much of an advantage compared to everything else. In the current meta they are not that broken, because WG has been changing the meta to indirectly nerf them. What I am saying is that I'd rather have nerfed T10 meds then the meta changes.

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Some of the problem stems from the fact that mobility doesn't matter enough because maps are too small.  Even large, open maps have flanking opportunities artificially reduced by a combination of the red line and high view ranges.  I'd be fine with some pen reduction for mediums if the maps didn't basically force face to face engagements with the negligible flanking opportunities they allow. 

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In the past more vision centric metas a medium with nerfed vision would be even less useful than a hard turreted medium is in the current meta. What would the point of playing a medium be if you can't out vision, out dpm someone? So you flank and hopefully don't get outspotted while you struggle to pen things for shitty dpm? Sounds like heaven for heavies and tds. Lights would do better but that's about it. Mediums would be effectively unviable.

 

 

Some of the problem stems from the fact that mobility doesn't matter enough because maps are too small.  Even large, open maps have flanking opportunities artificially reduced by a combination of the red line and high view ranges.  I'd be fine with some pen reduction for mediums if the maps didn't basically force face to face engagements with the negligible flanking opportunities they allow. 

 

Even with bigger maps you'd still be reliant on someone else to spot something when driving your vision reduced medium. This isn't even discussing the proposal that heavies somehow should have better vision than meds. I'm all for bigger maps though, but driving the tanks I do of curse I would be. 

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Heavies would outspot mediums in the open slightly. I think the advantage of mobility is large enough that a medium would be viable even without vision or a railgun. Heavies and TDs should have a huge advantage in a direct engagement, mediums should specialize in flanking and tactical play. RIght now, you just go from bush to bush sniping with superior vision.

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Something that is actually rather more apparent in a different tank game on the much higher battle tiers of 4-5 with Meds, TDs, and Heavies

 

Fact is like stated above the arcade aspect of this game (Map size, set view ranges, dpm etc) really hinders many possibilities to improve the meta itself

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I wasn't taking a position on the rest of that proposal, just saying that mediums need some possibility of penning tanks from the front since chances to shoot thinner side and rear armor don't come frequently enough. 

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