Big1Jake

Dear WG, Let Me Fix Your Game

143 posts in this topic

Personally I think they should remove HP values entirely and go with the War Thunder concept. Damage the tank components and crew until it dies.

 

The WT model has it's own issues with randomness, two shots of the same gun, with the same kind of shell, at the same distance and penetrating the same spot on a given tank, can have very different outcomes.

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Why only RNG on penetration if there's going to be such a disparity in alpha? The difference between highrolling an entire T69 clip and not doing it is killing a WZ-132, or even a 13 90, if you get the most favourable rolls ever. The difference between high-rolling a 13 90 clip and not doing it is killing any tier 8 that you see, whereas if you don't, you can't even kill a Pershing.

 

Im really baffled by your posts... all 4 shells rolling high, or all 6 shells in 13 90 rolling high?? really, how often does that happen?

 

 

 

And that's without mentioning pen no damage rolls.

Ok, who hacked your account? Last time i heard this is from 45% baddie....

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Personally I think they should remove HP values entirely and go with the War Thunder concept. Damage the tank components and crew until it dies.

 

That would be utter-retarded

 

ANY succesfull game has an hp-bar and wot should be no exception

 

The fact you can trade your hp is a powerfull weapon and a major driving force behind wots succes

 

what makes wot one of the most succesfull games of the past 10 years (yes, its that succesfull) are the logical, proper working UNIQUE mechanics, which includes hp, rng, armor and the good mix of realism and arcade (and lots of tanks on small maps), removing one of those core elements will only lead to fail...

 

RNG is a essential part of this game, i see arty getting removed happening sooner as RNG getting removed (and they wont remove arty...)

 

ps: and putting RNG on 5 or 10% equals to removal...

 

ps ps: i would say: lower RNG for penetration to 15% and keep everything else the same, both dmg and accuracy are fine (or even make accuracy worse and lowe rng for pen as balancing)

 

ps ps ps: what you all want is to turn wot into a shitty cod with tanks, no rng, lots of camping ``vision``, no brawling, no armor (gold shells are good, armor is bad) no high alpha, no specialist (tanks with bad pen need buffs and everything same alpha and shit)

 

ps ps ps ps: and NA server is irrelevant, player ratio is roughly 1-5-20 (NA-EU-RU) you think those few NA cw players matter AT ALL....

 

 

Ok, who hacked your account? Last time i heard this is from 45% baddie....

 

Yeah, next we get is that premium account gives better mm ;D

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Accuracy RNG is great because it allows for meaningful differentiation of tanks/guns (even if the 8.6 change mitigates that somewhat).

 

Penetration RNG is not so great because after you've aimed in on a weakspot AND had the gun actually shoot where you were aiming, yet another secret roll then decides 'lolnope you bounce'-- that's kind of shitty.  It's like having to win the slot machine after already having won the slot machine.  This should be tightened up CONSIDERABLY.

 

Damage RNG could be tightened a little, but Antonio's autoloader example actually reinforces why there SHOULD be reasonable uncertainty with damage.  For most tanks, tightening up the damage ranges wouldn't hurt too much.  However, autoloaders would be WAY more powerful if they had more guaranteed damage-- right now, they have to make a serious judgement call (a.k.a. skill) on when to commit to an engagement based on a host of factors including the potential for misses/bounces/low rolls.  

 

The better player you are, the less you are going to miss/bounce which means low rolls are the only gating factor to you clipping out same tier tanks in ~10 seconds.  If T69s could reliably clip 132/1390s and 1390s could reliably clip T8 anything the 7/42 scene would be more dominated by autoloaders than it currently is.

 

Also, the wide variance creates a situation where you can end up with tanks of widely varying health after some fighting (though this is more true in the normal 15v15 instead of the esports 5v5).  While it sucks to low roll someone and leave them at 10 health, it is conversely very much fun to BE low rolled and be left alive at low health.

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Im really baffled by your posts... all 4 shells rolling high, or all 6 shells in 13 90 rolling high?? really, how often does that happen?

 

 

Ok, who hacked your account? Last time i heard this is from 45% baddie....

 

Wow, are you inbred or something? Lowrolls can happen as much as highrolls can, so logically, high/lowrolling an entire clip is possible. Should you be able to clip down a tank that, had RNG been reduced to 10/5%, you wouldn't have been able to due to your nominal alpha plus clip size combination? I don't think so. Conversely, I don't think you should be getting extra-fucked by lowrolls in a game that promotes camping so much and penalized aggressive behaviour because of randomness in the damage model. If you can't see how rolling 293 as opposed to 487 as an IS-3 is harmful to the future of the game as a viable e-sports, let alone a pub stomp casual game, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

And yes, there are definitely weird armour mechanics and client/server-side calculations don't always match, and that perfectly aimed shot probably didn't even go where you thought it did. Maybe you don't notice the effects of game mechanics on the EU server, but NA? You can fucking tell every damn piece of shit that is wrong with spotting intervals, RNG and armour schematics. You don't have to be a 45% to claim that the mechanics are bullshit and, at this point, not even the 'true unica' (which, according to your views, resides purely on the RU and EU server) can completely grasp. In fact, stop being such a disingenuous piece of shit.

 

That would be utter-retarded

 

ANY succesfull game has an hp-bar and wot should be no exception

 

The fact you can trade your hp is a powerfull weapon and a major driving force behind wots succes

 

what makes wot one of the most succesfull games of the past 10 years (yes, its that succesfull) are the logical, proper working UNIQUE mechanics, which includes hp, rng, armor and the good mix of realism and arcade (and lots of tanks on small maps), removing one of those core elements will only lead to fail...

 

RNG is a essential part of this game, i see arty getting removed happening sooner as RNG getting removed (and they wont remove arty...)

 

ps: and putting RNG on 5 or 10% equals to removal...

 

ps ps: i would say: lower RNG for penetration to 15% and keep everything else the same, both dmg and accuracy are fine (or even make accuracy worse and lowe rng for pen as balancing)

 

ps ps ps: what you all want is to turn wot into a shitty cod with tanks, no rng, lots of camping ``vision``, no brawling, no armor (gold shells are good, armor is bad) no high alpha, no specialist (tanks with bad pen need buffs and everything same alpha and shit)

 

ps ps ps ps: and NA server is irrelevant, player ratio is roughly 1-5-20 (NA-EU-RU) you think those few NA cw players matter AT ALL....

 

 
 

 

Yeah, next we get is that premium account gives better mm ;D

 

I will ask Powerslide what Na'Vi thinks of RNG and the current state of the game, and I will get back to you. Seeing as the entirety of the NA server (by and large) wants to see a reduction of RNG to 10% at least (a sweet spot where randomness would still affect your performance but where it'd not turn this into a twitch shooter and tactics would still be required), but you don't even consider the NA server as people, maybe the top team in the world can offer some unique insight into their opinion on mechanics.

 

By the way, oddly enough, this game was way less fucked up before they nerfed artillery, buffed accuracy and released all those tier 10 TD's and mediums. Every single player will tell you this, unless you're a tree-hugging TD lover.

 

tl;dr 7v7 engagements in which 'luck' decides 50% of the outcome of a confrontation has little to no future in the long run. Claiming that good players get by RNG because they can hold a 80% WR playing pugs is fucking ludicrous, please leave. These kind of games last long because they get a lot of paying playerbase and sponsorship to dump money into it. If mechanics aren't changed to 'logical levels of reasonable', this game is dead within the year, at least professionally.

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Wow, are you inbred or something? Lowrolls can happen as much as highrolls can, so logically, high/lowrolling an entire clip is possible. Should you be able to clip down a tank that, had RNG been reduced to 10/5%, you wouldn't have been able to due to your nominal alpha plus clip size combination? I don't think so. Conversely, I don't think you should be getting extra-fucked by lowrolls in a game that promotes camping so much and penalized aggressive behaviour because of randomness in the damage model. If you can't see how rolling 293 as opposed to 487 as an IS-3 is harmful to the future of the game as a viable e-sports, let alone a pub stomp casual game, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

And yes, there are definitely weird armour mechanics and client/server-side calculations don't always match, and that perfectly aimed shot probably didn't even go where you thought it did. Maybe you don't notice the effects of game mechanics on the EU server, but NA? You can fucking tell every damn piece of shit that is wrong with spotting intervals, RNG and armour schematics. You don't have to be a 45% to claim that the mechanics are bullshit and, at this point, not even the 'true unica' (which, according to your views, resides purely on the RU and EU server) can completely grasp. In fact, stop being such a disingenuous piece of shit.

 

 

I will ask Powerslide what Na'Vi thinks of RNG and the current state of the game, and I will get back to you. Seeing as the entirety of the NA server (by and large) wants to see a reduction of RNG to 10% at least (a sweet spot where randomness would still affect your performance but where it'd not turn this into a twitch shooter and tactics would still be required), but you don't even consider the NA server as people, maybe the top team in the world can offer some unique insight into their opinion on mechanics.

 

By the way, oddly enough, this game was way less fucked up before they nerfed artillery, buffed accuracy and released all those tier 10 TD's and mediums. Every single player will tell you this, unless you're a tree-hugging TD lover.

 

tl;dr 7v7 engagements in which 'luck' decides 50% of the outcome of a confrontation has little to no future in the long run. Claiming that good players get by RNG because they can hold a 80% WR playing pugs is fucking ludicrous, please leave. These kind of games last long because they get a lot of paying playerbase and sponsorship to dump money into it. If mechanics aren't changed to 'logical levels of reasonable', this game is dead within the year, at least professionally.

 

U have any idea how much players wot has?

Simulationary is 1.3 million players (now in this second), not sumulationary is 1.5 millions players.  9 millions active players (who plays every week). 75 millions registration.

http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/338335-roll-out-facts-and-figures-for-world-of-tanks/page__pid__6848438#entry6848438

 

Ergo, those 50k at NA matter NOT AT ALL compared to more as 1.000.000 russian players...

 

(and yes, tier 10 tds and meds where not needed and the game will stay ``broke`` as long as heavys are not the dominant class, but thats irrelevant for RNG)

 

ps: and wot is no E-sport game and should never evolve into one, i hope Serb (who is against esport shit) gets pissed off and terminates all that crap regarding e-sport, we need more tanks, not shitty useless e-sport....

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(and yes, tier 10 tds and meds where not needed and the game will stay ``broke`` as long as heavys are not the dominant class, but thats irrelevant for RNG)

 

Fuck heavies, they went obsolete for a reason, WG can gimp HEAT and change the meta all they want, Mediums will always be Master Race.

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U have any idea how much players wot has?

Simulationary is 1.3 million players (now in this second), not sumulationary is 1.5 millions players.  9 millions active players (who plays every week). 75 millions registration.

 

Ergo, those 50k at NA matter NOT AT ALL compared to more as 1.000.000 russian players...

 

(and yes, tier 10 tds and meds where not needed and the game will stay ``broke`` as long as heavys are not the dominant class, but thats irrelevant for RNG)

 

ps: and wot is no E-sport game and should never evolve into one, i hope Serb (who is against esport shit) gets pissed off and terminates all that crap regarding e-sport, we need more tanks, not shitty useless e-sport....

 

lol.

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Reading through this thread, I'm actually quite surprised to learn that most of you regard Damage and Pen RNG as needing to be tightened, but saying that accuracy is fine, or in some cases, ought to be worsened. In my opinion, accuracy RNG is easily the most game-breaking of the lot.

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It is amusing to read dismissiveness of arguments merely because of location. 

 

 

Perhaps because NA is so small the server could be used as a test group for 10% RNG. Then everyone wins.

 

 

 

PS Heavies should dominate? Why should any 1 class dominate?

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Okay, let me get this straight. If I shoot a round that has 150mm of penetration at armor that is 150mm thick, at a flat angle and short range, it should pen 100% of the time? But if you slap on 151mm of armor instead, it should bounce 100% of the time?

Jesus.

 

No that's the AntiRNJesus

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No that's the AntiRNJesus

 

Who the fuck was even suggesting that? We're talking about a fucking reduction in the roll spread, wtf do you get these ideas?

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PS Heavies should dominate? Why should any 1 class dominate?

 

because there will always one class dominant....

 

1: the biggest playergroup are play for fun (and they are bad at the game...)

2: the easiest to balance class are heavys, they can be balanced in 4 directions (armor, gun, mobility and soft stats) unlike other tanks (meds have limited armor, tds no turrets) makig balancing easier

3: the there will always be 1 class better (always, there is always a ``best``)

4: most people will go towards ``the best`` and ``the easiest`` to play

 

This means that:

A: if mediums are ment to be dominant, all bads go to mediums, which means they need to be buffed so much, that unicums will total trash none-mediums while bads are still poor in them (see bat chat or T62a)

B: if TDs are ment to be dominant, all bads get a TD and camp, fun fun fun

 

C: this leaves heavys, they are the easiest to drive (for average players), they are the easiest to counter (due to lack of speed) they are the easiest to balance (because so much possibilities) and unicums can still outclass them with meds, due to superior skill.

 

compare this:

red in E100 vs unicum in Fv4202, the red has a better (dominant) tank (class) but the unicum hes skill compensates,

red in Maus vs unicum in T62, the unicum has the dominant tank AND more skill...

 

(and unicum in E100 vs red Fv4202 is still ``better`` as a unicum maus vs red T62)

 

Also heavys can de outcapped and gang-banged by teamwork, they give TDs and arty a purpose...

 

So for proper balancing you need 1 core unit to built the rest around, this works the best if its a noob-friendly all-round tank with low skil floor and low skill ceilling and NOT if its a specialist with high skill floor and ceilling...

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Reds are going to be shit in whatever tank you put them in. Intentionally buffing the heavies so that they can compete with unis in meds, just means that the unis that were in meds will in many cases swap to heavies I would assume. Not that heavies are by any means underplayed or underpowered right now, maybe the Maus and E5, but your example doesn't even take into account the general purpose heavies in the game.

 

I do think that WG could/should figure out an average performance on a class by class basis and balance every tank around that. I don't think they should intentionally make one class of tanks better, be it heavy, TD, or medium. On another note how many mediums do you even see in use? Greens, blues, and purples use them sure but thats a pretty distinct minority of players. Before I moved I was keeping track of the amount of meds I saw in high tier pubs, and it was a very distinct minority per match. I will need to see if I can find that notepad.

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Reds are going to be shit in whatever tank you put them in. Intentionally buffing the heavies so that they can compete with unis in meds, just means that the unis that were in meds will in many cases swap to heavies I would assume. Not that heavies are by any means underplayed or underpowered right now, maybe the Maus and E5, but your example doesn't even take into account the general purpose heavies in the game.

 

I do think that WG could/should figure out an average performance on a class by class basis and balance every tank around that. I don't think they should intentionally make one class of tanks better, be it heavy, TD, or medium. On another note how many mediums do you even see in use? Greens, blues, and purples use them sure but thats a pretty distinct minority of players. Before I moved I was keeping track of the amount of meds I saw in high tier pubs, and it was a very distinct minority per match. I will need to see if I can find that notepad.

 

no, not buffing heavys so bad + heavy = uni + med

 

atm, heavys are the worst tier 10 tanks, this should be the other way around

 

and the best way to do, is to nerf tds and rebalance meds

 

right now bads are terrible in meds AND they are terrible in heavys (because heavys suck)

 

this means all bads either go to tds, to arty or something else (other game or lower tier)

 

3 out of those 4 options is bad for us (other games is at first good, but in the long run bad)

 

so to prevent this, bads should have a class they can do something in....

 

i rather have an `OP` maus, who crawls around with 19km/h as an Fv-183 or Foch-155 who insta-gibs me....

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You're giving it WAY too much weight.

 

You're not giving it enough.

 

 

No, skill would be to be so superior to your opponent that you can not lose even with really really unlucky RNG. If i lose 1 out of 100 engagments to a random pubie because of RNG (not counting ammoracks, fires etc) im loosing tooo much.

 

Against equal opponents RNG must be present because the fight would be decided before it would even start if we had no RNG.

 

If you cant say that you are bad because your teamates drag you down every game (no1 pubbie excuse) you cant say RNG is bad because it gives as much as it takes.

 

RNG is God, RNG is the equalizer, RNG is alpha and omega.

 

ur high

 

Luna those extremes do not happen with any kind of regularity and if you think they do you're deluding yourself.

 

They do happen. Often.

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atm, heavys are the worst tier 10 tanks, this should be the other way around

 

and the best way to do, is to nerf tds and rebalance meds

 

right now bads are terrible in meds AND they are terrible in heavys (because heavys suck)

 

this means all bads either go to tds, to arty or something else (other game or lower tier)

 

 

I'm going to need to see something that backs up these ridiculous claims. Heavys suck? Yes the Russian heavies, E100, AMX50b, and 57 are all just terrible. I think you're saying all tx heavies suck when it's really the Maus and maybe 113 that are bad, with the e5 being average.

 

Bads play TDs because they can click 1 thing and do lots of dmg, and they don't play meds because they have to click several things to do lots of dmg. 

 

At any rate this is hardly relevant to the discussion.

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They do happen. Often.

Read the sentence besides wotlabs on the head of the home page. Come back with numbers or get out.

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I'm going to need to see something that backs up these ridiculous claims. Heavys suck? Yes the Russian heavies, E100, AMX50b, and 57 are all just terrible. I think you're saying all tx heavies suck when it's really the Maus and maybe 113 that are bad, with the e5 being average.

 

Bads play TDs because they can click 1 thing and do lots of dmg, and they don't play meds because they have to click several things to do lots of dmg. 

 

At any rate this is hardly relevant to the discussion.

 

50B =/= heavy, T57 is also barely an heavy

 

so that leaves:

- Maus, shit

- 113, shit

- IS4, shit

- IS7, poor (IS7 is so hardcore overrated...)

- Fv215, poor (or shit) (but perhaps its better as i think it is)

- E5, good

- E100, good (unless AP then shit)

 

so thats 7 heavys of which 3 are shit, 2 poor and 2 good (and E100 only works with HEAT, which 3/4 players dont use)

 

Or are u one of those players who think IS7 is good....? (hint, it isnt, and i have better winratio in IS7 as 90% of the wotlab users)

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While debating this is probably pointless with you I am curious as to what your qualifiers for "shit" or "good" are. And the fact that you dismiss 2 heavies as not heavies immediately is rather amusing.

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While debating this is probably pointless with you I am curious as to what your qualifiers for "shit" or "good" are. And the fact that you dismiss 2 heavies as not heavies immediately is rather amusing.

 

heavy is a tank with armor neither 50b or T57 have armor

 

if you seriously consider the 50b to be a heavy, there is no point in responding to this (unless your just a bad troll)

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heavy is a tank with armor neither 50b or T57 have armor

 

if you seriously consider the 50b to be a heavy, there is no point in responding to this (unless your just a bad troll)

 

It has heavy armament, and is classified as a heavy, in both cases.

 

But by your definition the E5 isn't a heavy either, yet you rate it as "good". I think it's you that's trolling based on many of your replies.

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Read the sentence besides wotlabs on the head of the home page. Come back with numbers or get out.

 

Go play some fucking 7/42 where every bit of HP counts and come back to me after a year and tell me whether you think RNG fucks things up or not.

 

We're not some anti-science gang. Matter of fact, we just happen to recognize how fucked up it is that RNG can be the deciding factor in most engagements, especially at low-scale.

 

Like just now, I tracked an MT-25 twice. Two perfect shots. The second rolled for 260 on my 50 100 and he survived with a whopping 1 hp. Did I do something wrong as a player??? Something that I did made me deserve such a low roll in your opinion? Was there anything I could had done differently to not get fucked by randomness, seeing as how, skill-wise, I hit both shots in critical spots?

 

Do tell me.

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Do tell me.

 

If you were a real uni from the EU or RU, then you would have avoided this entire scenario with skill. Obviously. 

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