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EmbryonicJourney

Garbad's T-34-85 challenge challenged

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I don't know if you've done it, but playing on another account might be interesting to rule out any 'garbad effect' (similar to a sheriff effect).  I don't think it's likely, but would be interesting to see or note.

 

I didn't see the final results from whoever was doing the sheriff/purple/50% account comparison for gold ammo usage, although I think the first results didn't show anything significant.

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OK: it seems to me that if you have a higher WR in solopub but a lower DPG, then your pubbies should be making up the difference in damage? What, if anything, are your thoughts on the difference between this and CW or tournaments? I would think that with a picked team there would be much less to contribute in terms of getting more damage out of your team, or is that incorrect? Or is the question just meaningless anyway, since we've moved beyond the point of the solo challenge and it's much more of a team vs. team situation?

 

What do you think would happen if there where something like a draft situation (or grade-school dodgeball you pick / I pick / etc)?

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OK: it seems to me that if you have a higher WR in solopub but a lower DPG, then your pubbies should be making up the difference in damage? What, if anything, are your thoughts on the difference between this and CW or tournaments? I would think that with a picked team there would be much less to contribute in terms of getting more damage out of your team, or is that incorrect? Or is the question just meaningless anyway, since we've moved beyond the point of the solo challenge and it's much more of a team vs. team situation?

 

What do you think would happen if there where something like a draft situation (or grade-school dodgeball you pick / I pick / etc)?

Or better tactics/scouting/etc.

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Or better tactics/scouting/etc.

The fact that damage is clumped together makes it a pretty trash stat. Tracking an important target in a punishable position early in the game is like 100x worth any clean up damage you do after a match which is many cases can be 80% of a players output in a game. Then there is how just sitting in a position and threatening the enemy with pokes can make it easier for your team to engage them or give them the confidence to follow your lead and move to better positions or just simple stuff like reading and reacting to when cap needs to be defended in time and acting on it.

 

It would be interesting to try a session when someone refrains from all forms of empty damage (even though it is ambiguous what is of value or not) to prove this. I know Garbad did a 5 shot challenge before but I hardly think that's enough as sometimes you need to fire all the game and enemies generally don't respect something that won't shoot.

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Nice stats. Wish I could play that well. Just finished the t 34 85 myself and loved it

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Aight, I'll download the NA client again, but don't come with any bullshit about it being 9.2 and sort of won't be a valid result because of it being another game version or whatever. Having a ping which, for starters isnt very stable, going yolo all over the place with slight rubber banding effects at worst really makes quick over hill or around corner snap shots tough to make, aswell as close range high speed brawling. Will it put a massive effect on overall damage/kills and whatever stats per game? No, not nearly as much as it hurts your ability to win many of the late game face offs against a very low number of enemies, but also, a very low number of team mates, this means you will be the target they are more or less 1on1ing. It might partly be due to my inexperience with playing at pings over 130 (i'm used to 30-50ish), but it seems as if the higher ping cuts the margins which I have when going for the quick peekaboo snapshots which I once used to master and still do really well. One will be more limited to playing the vision control game way in many situations where peekaboo snapshotting would do quite well without risking too much.

 

And well, the DPG i had in the first 21 games was higher than I expected, but the games were generally quite fucking challenging, I don't know if you watched any of the replays, I have yet to watch the ones you uploaded, but in general I agree with you about the DPG vs WR thing. There are a lot of "purple" players who score good average damage yet are really really bad players (considering their "purple" that is, clearly) that I would never ever consider having in a competitive platoon, while I know a handful of players who's stats are blue-purpleish (even recent in many cases) that I know will really wipe the floor if put together in platoons with like minded players. In general, that's the catch with soloing, you can really shine when there are 1-2 enemies facing you or if you have 2 platoonmates with you, makeing it 3 vs 3-6 players, that's when the skill can really shine through, while soloing will in many cases leave you at picking off the odd shot at some random enemy in a bunched up group of 5 or more enemies and then trying to repeat that as often as possible. Rather than being able to let that vastly superior skill of yours to defeat the enemy, you end up having to play in a way where you go and hunt for enemies making mistakes and repeatedly punishing them for doing it.

 

There are of course some stats that truly ought to be pointing towards someone not being a damage farming sexii, like constantly pushing it on the front lines, making sure to start dealing damage to the enemy way before they can land shells at your team mates, the spotting damage and support damage ones, along with targets detected are some, damage received should also be sort of counted as one.

 

Some critical, arguably more important than any of the recordable stuff that hasn't, isnt' won't and can't be recorded properly are at what stage of the battle you deal that DPG of yours that is so easy to score late game when you have been pushed into a corner where the last 1 or 2 tomato camper td's have been sitting from the start of the game and the enemy still has 10 tanks remaining while you yourself are already at (4x more assist damage, spots, kills, damage dealt and whatever than any of your team mates). Last sentence too long lel. Well, when the 10 enemies come yolorushing in over open fields just to get some more damage or maybe even a kill in the end, that is when you can deal such easy damage with medium tanks on open maps, however, that damage is completely useless and shows nothing in terms of you being a good player, while being the first to die on a losing team and still having dealt more damage and kills than anyone else on your team at the end of the battle, now that damage ought to be considered so much more valuable than the late game damage dealt to the enemies who don't care if they end the battle at a 2k hp pool or a 1k hp pool, as long as they can score another 500 damage themselves.

 

Another really important one is the to be able to stop the enemies from dealing damage, simply through dettering a group of enemy tanks from pushing on just because they know there's a lower tier tank that will repeatedly slap them in the face as soon as they are leaving their cover. A tank like the Hellcat can do this on his own, pinning multiple (somewhat inexperienced players) higher tier tanks down, denying them, the back bone of the enemy team of dealing damage while the back bone of your team, your teams top tier tanks just mows through the the hordes of lower tier tanks in order to join up with you for a sweet gang bang group rape (9 out of 10 enjoys a group rape btw). Esentially winning the battle for the team only dealing a few shots worth of damage to announce your presence and plant the fear of humilitation in their tiny heads, so innocently robbed of intelligence by their parents inferior gene pools.

 

As I said, I haven't yet watched any of your replays but I'll have a look at them at some point and I'll be able to see so much more than any DPG, average kills, wn8 ratings, WR numbers or whatever could ever show.Maybe you are truly one of the Kings of World of Tanks, but still, why be a king when you can be a God? Fuck off.

 

 

 

Also, for the rest of you:

 

Peace and love to everyone, if you want it <3

EmbryonicJourney

 

 

(gonna be going away for a few weeks at saturday again, gonna try to make the remaining t-34-85 battles though)

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I was thinking about the Garbad effect a bit as it relates to his solopub challenges and I think it would be interested as Stagnate and maybe a few others here suggested to have Garbad do a solopub challenge using an alt account.  That alt account can even be some random purple of blunicum account for all it matters for the purpose of this experiment, but it shouldn't be a well known name.

 

Now, I don't doubt for a moment that Garbad plays to win.  I also am not denying that he has superior tactics as compared to the vast, vast majority of players.  And I don't believe in luck.  

 

My hypothesis is this then: Garbad is such a well known, notorious, and controversial player on the NA server that pubs are directly affected in their play versus him by his mere presence alone.  Every arty player wants to kill him, and so from the second he is spotted every enemy clicker hovers on him waiting for a chance to 1 shot him, thus avoiding even trying to click on the rest of his team.  He zergs in hard and fast at the start of the battle, and because of his reputation for winning people are frightened on the enemy and avoid engaging him unless by superior numbers.  This has the effect of denying whatever area he's in and making those enemies easier for him to deal with, while eventually pulling half the enemy team in to try and kill him once they get their wits about them.  That in turn leaves enemy flanks wide open for Garbad's lesser skilled teammates to derp through.

 

Test: Put Garbad in some random bluenicum's account and re-run a recent challenge, one that wouldn't really be affected by patches or meta changes.  Make sure whatever account he's playing on has adequate crew skill in the chosen tank.  Provide proper community sourced funding if need be.  During the challenge Garbad will not make any remarks in all-chat that would reveal his true identity.  Record results and discuss.

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I do like that idea, two sock puppet accounts each with no stigma beyond WN8 color scale upon them. Maybe Garbad could do 50 more games just for a small sample size in a puppet?

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I was thinking about the Garbad effect a bit as it relates to his solopub challenges and I think it would be interested as Stagnate and maybe a few others here suggested to have Garbad do a solopub challenge using an alt account.  That alt account can even be some random purple of blunicum account for all it matters for the purpose of this experiment, but it shouldn't be a well known name.

 

Now, I don't doubt for a moment that Garbad plays to win.  I also am not denying that he has superior tactics as compared to the vast, vast majority of players.  And I don't believe in luck.  

 

My hypothesis is this then: Garbad is such a well known, notorious, and controversial player on the NA server that pubs are directly affected in their play versus him by his mere presence alone.  Every arty player wants to kill him, and so from the second he is spotted every enemy clicker hovers on him waiting for a chance to 1 shot him, thus avoiding even trying to click on the rest of his team.  He zergs in hard and fast at the start of the battle, and because of his reputation for winning people are frightened on the enemy and avoid engaging him unless by superior numbers.  This has the effect of denying whatever area he's in and making those enemies easier for him to deal with, while eventually pulling half the enemy team in to try and kill him once they get their wits about them.  That in turn leaves enemy flanks wide open for Garbad's lesser skilled teammates to derp through.

 

Test: Put Garbad in some random bluenicum's account and re-run a recent challenge, one that wouldn't really be affected by patches or meta changes.  Make sure whatever account he's playing on has adequate crew skill in the chosen tank.  Provide proper community sourced funding if need be.  During the challenge Garbad will not make any remarks in all-chat that would reveal his true identity.  Record results and discuss.

 

 

Could be interesting :P

 

I know (from own expierence) that FAME tag draws out all the retards on EU server, arty trying nothing to kill you, enemys either hiding like coward shits or derp rushing etc

 

When i left FAME it felt like there where much less shells flying in my direction... (same when 322 blew up first time (back then it was best random yolo clan of EU) a 3x 322 platoon would draw lots of butthurt and whine (and arty rain) when i was clanless, way less

 

ps: perhaps other who left PTS / FAME / EFE, old 322 can comment on this (PTS and EFE also seem to recieve a lot of butthurt xD)

 

ps ps: when i played in platoon with Tuka (80% winratio russian madman) atleast 50% of the game people comment on that (omg fame, how 80%, omg wtf etc i guess Garbad has the same)

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Aight, I'll download the NA client again...

 

*snip*

 

If you are going to do this please post the results when you are complete in this thread.  Try to include all the same data that Garbad did (specifically the XVM % chance to win).  I would like to calculate the "luck" factor two different ways.  The first by using the number of games and win % to calculate the variance due to luck, and the second by using the XVM % chance to win.

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Aight, I'll download the NA client again, but don't come with any bullshit about it being 9.2 ...

I won't.  Technically some of my replays are 9.2 I think.

 

Having a ping which, for starters isnt very stable

For which I give you props for having the balls to try.  I have ~120 ping US, I don't think I could compete on EU and don't care to try.  As for how much it matters, who can really say?

 

And well, the DPG i had in the first 21 games was higher than I expected, but the games were generally quite fucking challenging, I don't know if you watched any of the replays, I have yet to watch the ones you uploaded, but in general I agree with you about the DPG vs WR thing.

I haven't, but plan to once you hit 50.  All ego aside, I am genuinely curious what we do differently and if its luck or not that I win more than people who do more dpg.  I think you are a great opportunity to do that as most NA unica won't challenge me anymore, and your skill level is unimpeachable.

 

And also that's why I want a 3rd party to view it.

 

Some critical, arguably more important than any of the recordable stuff that hasn't, isnt' won't and can't be recorded properly are at what stage of the battle you deal that DPG of yours...

Agreed.  I yoloderp early and often.  I often do my damage early and then die, leaving my team to mop up.  I think this is good play, but we will see.

 

As I said, I haven't yet watched any of your replays but I'll have a look at them at some point and I'll be able to see so much more than any DPG, average kills, wn8 ratings, WR numbers or whatever could ever show.Maybe you are truly one of the Kings of World of Tanks, but still, why be a king when you can be a God? Fuck off.

I am the God of Internet Tanks, but even a God-King can bleed.  Leonidas' spear taught us that.

My hypothesis is this then: Garbad is such a well known, notorious, and controversial player on the NA server that pubs are directly affected in their play versus him by his mere presence alone.

I will do this, but I would prefer a more anonymous account than blue.  Green or yellow would be better. 

FYI, I use to have a blue account (a friend) that I played on occasion.  I got a lot less chatter, but its hard to say if I got better results.  And plus, remember the garbad magic is not always good.  I get a lot of TKs (its rare for me to do a 100 game challenge without at least 1 butthurt baddie tking me).  I get a lot of retards saying "garbad will carry us, may as well afk."  I get a lot of people who think "I want to learn what garbad does, better park behind his scouting batchat in my J100 -- nothing bad will happen).

 

So its hard to say.  And all the cancers clicking at me is also debatable -- I think it makes it worse for them, but could be wrong. Carbon's test showed fame is a negative thing -- I tend to agree.

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I will do this, but I would prefer a more anonymous account than blue.  Green or yellow would be better. 

FYI, I use to have a blue account (a friend) that I played on occasion.  I got a lot less chatter, but its hard to say if I got better results.  And plus, remember the garbad magic is not always good.  I get a lot of TKs (its rare for me to do a 100 game challenge without at least 1 butthurt baddie tking me).  I get a lot of retards saying "garbad will carry us, may as well afk."  I get a lot of people who think "I want to learn what garbad does, better park behind his scouting batchat in my J100 -- nothing bad will happen).

 

So its hard to say.  And all the cancers clicking at me is also debatable -- I think it makes it worse for them, but could be wrong. Carbon's test showed fame is a negative thing -- I tend to agree.

I understand what you're saying with green or yellow being more anonymous, but then you're controlling for 2 factors: garbad fame and xvm having clickers when the experiment is mean to only test for the garbad fame effect.  TBH it really should be some obscure clanless purple account with very similar crew skills to what you ran in your other challenge to get the best scientific control and narrow it down as closely as possible to just the one variable.  

 

I'm not disagreeing with you about it just trying to keep it real for science.  And as a member of this wotlabs community and a member of Relic I get both types of fame.  The o7s from wotlabbers are great.  The teamkillers, griefers, and hackusations from the IOC-minded crowd not so much, even if it is hilarious how they are so bad they can't even teamkill correctly.

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I understand what you're saying with green or yellow being more anonymous, but then you're controlling for 2 factors: garbad fame and xvm having clickers when the experiment is mean to only test for the garbad fame effect.  TBH it really should be some obscure clanless purple account with very similar crew skills to what you ran in your other challenge to get the best scientific control and narrow it down as closely as possible to just the one variable.  

 

I'm not disagreeing with you about it just trying to keep it real for science.  And as a member of this wotlabs community and a member of Relic I get both types of fame.  The o7s from wotlabbers are great.  The teamkillers, griefers, and hackusations from the IOC-minded crowd not so much, even if it is hilarious how they are so bad they can't even teamkill correctly.

Is this the point where you try to get me to level up your T-34-85?  -_-

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Is this the point where you try to get me to level up your T-34-85?  -_-

No, I free exp'd past that shit well over a year ago and I'm not purple.  :)

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Is this the point where you try to get me to level up your T-34-85?  -_-

He said obscure... Dlur still has those Relish tags and a twitch stream so he's like... a demi god, right? RIGHT?

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I won't.  Technically some of my replays are 9.2 I think.

 

For which I give you props for having the balls to try.  I have ~120 ping US, I don't think I could compete on EU and don't care to try.  As for how much it matters, who can really say?

 

I haven't, but plan to once you hit 50.  All ego aside, I am genuinely curious what we do differently and if its luck or not that I win more than people who do more dpg.  I think you are a great opportunity to do that as most NA unica won't challenge me anymore, and your skill level is unimpeachable.

 

And also that's why I want a 3rd party to view it.

 

Agreed.  I yoloderp early and often.  I often do my damage early and then die, leaving my team to mop up.  I think this is good play, but we will see.

 

I am the God of Internet Tanks, but even a God-King can bleed.  Leonidas' spear taught us that.

I will do this, but I would prefer a more anonymous account than blue.  Green or yellow would be better. 

FYI, I use to have a blue account (a friend) that I played on occasion.  I got a lot less chatter, but its hard to say if I got better results.  And plus, remember the garbad magic is not always good.  I get a lot of TKs (its rare for me to do a 100 game challenge without at least 1 butthurt baddie tking me).  I get a lot of retards saying "garbad will carry us, may as well afk."  I get a lot of people who think "I want to learn what garbad does, better park behind his scouting batchat in my J100 -- nothing bad will happen).

 

So its hard to say.  And all the cancers clicking at me is also debatable -- I think it makes it worse for them, but could be wrong. Carbon's test showed fame is a negative thing -- I tend to agree.

 

I'm seriously considering taking an extended break or moving on from WoT altogether. The game is unplayable and un-fun for me recently.

 

You're welcome to use mine for your test. It would be nigh impossible to have better xvm camo than I do currently. :)

 

I have the t-34-85 but nowhere near the credits necessary to rerun the experiment. However I would gladly stock up on credits just to see what happens.

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I remember Garbad being TK'ed in one of my platoons. I still have no idea what he did. 

 

It is also funny that half the time I platoon with -G- players, people assume I am auditioning for a spot.

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I remember Garbad being TK'ed in one of my platoons. I still have no idea what he did. 

 

It is also funny that half the time I platoon with -G- players, people assume I am auditioning for a spot.

You are.  You just don't know it yet.

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I know, stronkholds and stuff. 

 

I just don't have time for clan wars, and really had a bad experience when I was in a clan. Blame callmesarge for why I have not asked to join yet. 

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I'd also be willing to let Garbad use my account, though I've already played 172 games in the T-34-85 (http://www.vbaddict.net/tanks/stevel91-na-f418939fad5e08b61f7ac4008419a467).  My stats aren't really anything special and I'm nowhere near as "good" as my current WN8 (~2000) suggests.  My current crew in the 34-85 is only in their second skill, but I could move a crew 90% through their fourth skill into the tank if necessary.

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Also, for the next challenge(s) Garbad, could you please pick some tank which doesn't require losing 3kk credits per 50 games? :> Perhaps some T10 medium or similiar, where the premium ammo is not the best ammo in many/most situations.

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Also, for the next challenge(s) Garbad, could you please pick some tank which doesn't require losing 3kk credits per 50 games? :> Perhaps some T10 medium or similiar, where the premium ammo is not the best ammo in many/most situations.

You needed sprem ammo on T-34-85? Why? That tank has a really good penetration and up to tier 7 doesn't need to touch sprem ammo at all. Even T8s are penetrated reliably, unless fired from front (which is wrong use of this tank usually). T-34-85 just prints money...

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