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GehakteMolen

World of Medium tanks comming?

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Hello

 

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Disclaimer: Due to special light / medium special mm is a bit wonky, but still.....

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Since the alpha dmg nerf + foch-155 nerf + 268 nerf the amount of tier 10 tds stopped increasing and started to slowly drop (atleast for my feeling). The nerf of WTF-E100 and Fv-183, by then the most popular tier 10 (tds) further reduced the amount of tier 10 tds. (its atleast 50% less tds as a year ago)

 

At the same time the amount of arty increased a little and so did the amount of mediums, i think.

 

Last few days there where in some battles 2x more tier 10 mediums as tier 10 tds and heavy combined, also the amount of tier 10 tds is really, really low now, this will be partly due to the mission, but i think its a trend.

 

Will we now, finnaly, get a ``World of medium tanks``?

 

Long ago (september 2013), some time after big arty nerf, i said on EU forum:

- however this will also be countered, coz there now so much tds (and thus so little heavys) that medium have more room to move around, also far less light tank, less arty, and more tds, means its now EASIER for arty, so in the next weeks/months the amount of arty will slowly increase again (and more arty means less tds, the numbers will drop, ppl get bored of it, go play arty again etc)

reducing arty, increases TD, which reduces heavy, which increases medium**, more med and less arty mean far less lights

also coz i have the feeling the amount of tds will now start to drop slow and steady (not till old levels, but to a ratio of about 1:3/4 in comparison with heavy tanks) (3/4 heavy, 1 td)

- ps: same high tier tds never worked really well (and still dont do), they will sooner or later be changed (indirectly) but it takes so long to do so... (too high alpha dmg / dpm / hitpoints, so either hitpoints nerf or alpha dmg nerf is needed....) 

 

It seems we now reached this stage:

- TDs got nerfed (as i said WG should do, not with camo / vision, but alpha / dpm, thats makes them OP / easy, so thats need to be nerfed)

- TD popularity dropped quite a bit (not only on tier 10, but on all tier)

- Arty increases, much, much more arty-games as 6 or 12 months ago

- Significant increase of mediums, compared to 6 months ago (  )

 

The massive unbalanced in popularity seems to be more or less ``gone`` from 8.6 till 9.0 it was nothing but big tds and mediums, then mediums swapped for heavys (kinda strange imo), but td popularity seems to drop a lot, so now its finnaly (?) time for mediums?

 

Past weeks / months i mostly played mediums (tier 9) and it was very easy to wreck up stuff, while the few games i played with tds where mostly ``frustrating``. Heavys also no longer feel ``that good`` because there still a lot of tds (and arty) compared to before 8.6.

 

Also, for the first time i played wot, its no longer: more mediums = defeat, either people learned to play (unlikely) or mediums really became ``better`` (easier to use). Also the new light tanks will mostly shaft tds while mediums will be good counters for them, making mediums more viable aswell (i think)

 

TL:DR: The time of mediums has finnaly come, or will arty start to dominate again?

 

ps: or am i just whishdreaming?

 

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I see nothing that has changed. It's a month long mission to get a speshul tank that is as rare as the Type 59, of course there will be a sea of mediums.

 

Heavies are just as viable, I see many people rejoicing in the medium sea as it means they can devour them in their heavies.

Sky cancer is back to pre-nerf levels of almost 3 per game, and now we have the CGC bs to deal with.

 

TDs are as they should be, niche vehicles. People piss and moan about the alpha nerf but I don't see people going 'ahahah it's only 750hp I'll lose, I'll casually take that hit'

 

So yeah. I don't see how the meta has changed towards being medium focused at all.

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Mediums are the new easiest and most rewarding thing to play, in the pubby mind. It really isn't hard to see this pattern of nerfs and bitching and know where it's going next. After they do something terrible to mediums in the next ~6 months, heavies, then nerf, then back to clickers, then td's, rinse, repeat. Enjoy meds while they last for now, and get your heavies ready.

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Oh also as an addition I am quite happy with mediums being the new meta anyway.

 

Better than cloaktds vaporising stuff, or sky cancer griefing you into a rage quit.

 

At least mediums are sort of a 'classic' tank, imo. You play World of Tanks you expect...tanks. MT/MT fit this well.

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Oh also as an addition I am quite happy with mediums being the new meta anyway.

 

Better than cloaktds vaporising stuff, or sky cancer griefing you into a rage quit.

 

At least mediums are sort of a 'classic' tank, imo. You play World of Tanks you expect...tanks. MT/MT fit this well.

agreed. however, the balancing of classes in mm needs some serious work. 12 meds vs 3 seems like there may have been some room for adjustment when those teams were made.

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agreed. however, the balancing of classes in mm needs some serious work. 12 meds vs 3 seems like there may have been some room for adjustment when those teams were made.

 

I'd put that down to the event. If it continues past, as everyone has acquired a taste for mediums, I would consider it an issue for WG to tackle.

 

For now just wait for the event to end.

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I see nothing that has changed. It's a month long mission to get a speshul tank that is as rare as the Type 59, of course there will be a sea of mediums.

 

Heavies are just as viable, I see many people rejoicing in the medium sea as it means they can devour them in their heavies.

Sky cancer is back to pre-nerf levels of almost 3 per game, and now we have the CGC bs to deal with.

 

TDs are as they should be, niche vehicles. People piss and moan about the alpha nerf but I don't see people going 'ahahah it's only 750hp I'll lose, I'll casually take that hit'

 

So yeah. I don't see how the meta has changed towards being medium focused at all.

 

Many high tier heavys (tier 9/10) are just trash, as long as gold ammo stays as it is mediums will be better as heavys (for good players)

 

In the hands of a pub player mediums where never good because:

- arty rapes meds (arty got nerfed)

- TDs rape meds (TDs got nerfed)

 

So the 2 main counters for meds are now gone, BEFORE there where tier 10 meds / TDs, tier 9 meds where also much more popular as tier 9 tds / heavys (IS4 / E75 lost a lot of there popularity when the french autoloaders came)

 

This also happened before:

As described above, the meta-game changed 2x totally, with HE nerf the amount of arty dropped a little, but mostly did there influence, so tds and meds become usefull again (and the amount of scouts dropped HARD) combine with a flood of french tanks (and a huge rise of medium tanks) and the game become FAR FAR less campy as before.

 

This was around fall of 2011, patch 7.1, 2 changes (HE nerf + new autoloader tanks) totally changed the entire game, both what got played and how the game got played. This was also the best period of the game, 7.1 till 7.5.... (where T54 / E50 and M46 dominated)

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Less campy is good though!

 

I bow to your superior ability and knowledge of tanks, especially after they nerfed HT penetration and left mediums.

 

Surely though, the improved HP and armour of some HTs counters mediums?

 

E5, 215, 50b, is7 for troll armour, t57 for dpm, e100 for sheer survivability <<< surely these guys are not outclassed? I suppose map dependant, but I would rather be on the (assuming balanced skill) team of heavies on maps like Himmelsdorf than on the team with all mediums. HP pool advantages are surely ok? With the sexy firepower?

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Less campy is good though!

 

I bow to your superior ability and knowledge of tanks, especially after they nerfed HT penetration and left mediums.

 

Surely though, the improved HP and armour of some HTs counters mediums?

 

E5, 215, 50b, is7 for troll armour, t57 for dpm, e100 for sheer survivability <<< surely these guys are not outclassed? I suppose map dependant, but I would rather be on the (assuming balanced skill) team of heavies on maps like Himmelsdorf than on the team with all mediums. HP pool advantages are surely ok? With the sexy firepower?

 

Well, 50B is not really a classical ``heavy tank``, T57 will recieve so small nerf, and is also not really that ``heavy`` (it can however fight frontline and has staying power)

 

215 will be replaced for chieftain (i guess a good tank, but with WG you never know ^^)

 

Heavys wont be totally outclassed, but wwhat offer IS4 or IS7 over T62 or E50m? are 50B and T57 really that much better as bat chat? E100 will still be the king, but for 1 good heavys, we also have potato tanks like 113 and Maus...

 

ps: another reason mediums might start dominating, is that there will come a whole bunch of premium meds, Panther, T54, coupled with the new light tanks, this should push the game more towards moving as opposed to camping

 

ps ps: if mediums really become the dominating class on tier 7-10, im 99% sure the nerf will be gold ammo nerf, since thats the way the ``OPness`` of meds can be fixed

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Tier 10 meds really spoil you with pen though, so the gold nerf won't really affect them. The HP pool of lower tiers is enough to mean a well place heavy will still be potent.

 

The power creep does need a good smack though. All the 'bad' heavies are the older ones, while the top meds are all newer (maybe an exception here or there? my timeline knowledge is basic and vauge) but I still think there are enough decent heavies to compete against the Rise of the Mediums. I think E5/215/E100 with the T57/50B pseudos are more than enough but then they are only competing against 3 RU meds, E50M, Leo, Bat, 121, FV4202. Just because there's more variety in mediums doesn't mean you will see less heavies, or that they aren't as viable.

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After 9.3 lights should be on the rise as well.

 

I think the time of the fast movers is more apt than just mediums.

 

Although a lot of it is because of the mission, so it will stabilize out after the 8th of October.

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I'm pretty sure it's just the mission. Most pubbies are still terrible in meds, most heavy tanks are still extremely capable, nothing has really changed except sometimes there's a bunch of mediums and the matches have a lot of movement and flexing that's rather enjoyable. 

 

A gold pen nerf would only fuck the already mediocre t7 and t8 meds for the most part, who flings heat constantly in t10 meds?

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I'd wait until the mission is over before you call anything. I've seen a marked increase of mediums since this month started. I can't remember back to August. 

 

The amount of tds is also dropping for weeks (268 and foch-155 where incredible rare after nerf, same amount of WTF and Fcv-183 is atleast halved)

 

it will be either meds or heavys

 

I'm pretty sure it's just the mission. Most pubbies are still terrible in meds, most heavy tanks are still extremely capable, nothing has really changed except sometimes there's a bunch of mediums and the matches have a lot of movement and flexing that's rather enjoyable. 

 

A gold pen nerf would only fuck the already mediocre t7 and t8 meds for the most part, who flings heat constantly in t10 meds?

 

but are they?

 

if your a terribad using the gun of an E50m is much easier as the gun of an IS7, same a bat chat will work much better as a 50B

 

ps: and gold pen, with the purpose of nerfing meds, wont be ANY TIME soon, summer 2015 as fastest, WG usually needs 6 months as minimum to see that something is not working as intended

 

ps ps: and tier 10 med + HEAT is OP as fuck, E100 turret lol-bounces all 270 APCR stuff, but 330 heat easy pens, over and over, same for many other tanks, in head on situations 330 HEAT is still OP as hell

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but are they?

 

if your a terribad using the gun of an E50m is much easier as the gun of an IS7, same a bat chat will work much better as a 50B

 

 

ps ps: and tier 10 med + HEAT is OP as fuck, E100 turret lol-bounces all 270 APCR stuff, but 330 heat easy pens, over and over, same for many other tanks, in head on situations 330 HEAT is still OP as hell

 

If you're a terribad in the e50m you're going to get wrecked much quicker than a terribad in an IS7 because of the way its armor is shaped, it's lack of HP pool, the fact that you're probably going to yolo in to lolram and get smashed, etc. The batchat and 50B are both poor examples as I think one could content that tanks that can yolo in and clip out same tier tanks are somewhat broken. 

 

PS PS I realize you want Heavies to never get penned and be able to yolo forward and dominate all the things, but this medium meta you suggest is happening isn't a thing. Some of the heavies are bad sure, so are some of the meds.

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If you're a terribad in the e50m you're going to get wrecked much quicker than a terribad in an IS7 because of the way its armor is shaped, it's lack of HP pool, the fact that you're probably going to yolo in to lolram and get smashed, etc. The batchat and 50B are both poor examples as I think one could content that tanks that can yolo in and clip out same tier tanks are somewhat broken. 

 

PS PS I realize you want Heavies to never get penned and be able to yolo forward and dominate all the things, but this medium meta you suggest is happening isn't a thing. Some of the heavies are bad sure, so are some of the meds.

 

while an IS7 will be a little thougher, it wont matter much, tier 10 TDs lol-pen both, arty wrecks both and gold ammo wrecks both, bads are terrible in IS7`s, or in any other tier 10 heavy besides E100+ HEAT or T57.

 

the only reason bads did ok in tier 10 heavys before was because there where no tier 10 meds / td

 

ps: if they all keep playing heavys, fine for me, i`d rather have them in in IS7`s as bat chats...

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agreed. however, the balancing of classes in mm needs some serious work. 12 meds vs 3 seems like there may have been some room for adjustment when those teams were made.

 

See, this I have problems understanding.  I get that the number of arty and lights should be relatively balanced, and ideally perfectly balanced.  Having one team that has 5 more lights than the other could be very unbalancing.

 

But meds, heavies and TDs...why?  I see tons of baddies on the forums bitching that the team with more heavies has an advantage, as though heavies were somehow inherently better than mediums, not just on particular maps but overall.  I used to think this way too.  When I first hit Tier 5, I often said "OK, we lose, the other team has like 4 more heavies than us".  I was even more convinced if the other team had like four KV-1s and we had maybe one with some BDRs or T1s; this was back when everybody thought the T1 was crap and the BDR was crap and everything in Tier 5 was crap except a KV-1 or a Pz4 with the Schmalturm.

 

I have problems caring about having even numbers of MTs, HTs and TDs on a team.  Yeah, some TDs needed balancing, and got it.  Some meds still need balancing, particularly some high tier HEAT rounds - looking at you, T-54 - but overall I consider MTs, HTs, and TDs very balanced as whole classes.

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i havent played TD's in like 2 months, and i have only played mediums (tier 6-10) in the last 2 weeks (excluding tier V prem heavies for the lulz). I have been doing much better and having more fun doing it.

 

Current grind is the British meds (pray to Serb for free tier 8) and the next line im looking at is the E50m (tier 8 panther prem).

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I see tons of baddies on the forums bitching that the team with more heavies has an advantage, as though heavies were somehow inherently better than mediums, not just on particular maps but overall.

 

Because, from a very tangible perspective of most bads, Heavies = better health and armor.  So teams with an advantage of heavies have a larger overall health pools and are harder to take down. And also most of them, with a few exceptions, pack nasty guns.  It isn't until you start understanding the intangibles (gun depression, speed, flexibility) of tanks that the mystique behind heavies starts to really disappear.  At Tier 5, a KV1 vs a 4H or M4 is a pretty big gulf in health, armor, and firepower. Now for me, I start thinking that teams that have a few heavies but more mediums are more dangerous. Mostly I've been right.

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Honestly, I think the time of med dominance is already past its prime. The biggest factor in this are recent map changes that erase the vision game in favour of a brawling meta. This has lead many players to prefer meds that offer some armour (T-62, E-50M) rather than paper snipers (Leopard I). The Batchat is an exception in resisting this trend reasonably well thanks to its autoloader. The logical next step would be to have heavies reclaim a bigger role. Especially those few heavies that combine good speed, solid armour and a reliable high DPM gun. And no tank fits this specific description better than the T110E5.

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Honestly, I think the time of med dominance is already past its prime. The biggest factor in this are recent map changes that erase the vision game in favour of a brawling meta. This has lead many players to prefer meds that offer some armour (T-62, E-50M) rather than paper snipers (Leopard I). The Batchat is an exception in resisting this trend reasonably well thanks to its autoloader. The logical next step would be to have heavies reclaim a bigger role. Especially those few heavies that combine good speed, solid armour and a reliable high DPM gun. And no tank fits this specific description better than the T110E5.

 

There was no vision meta, it was ``big tds camp and everyone who tried something catches a 183mm or 6 128mm shells in his face (or a drum of a foch, or random 850 dmg shell or ...)``

 

all the big tds now left the party (it seems) so its either heavys or meds which will be the next ``noob magnet``

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Obviously speed is on WG's mind, hence the flow of new LTs coming. However in the hands of the ill equipped, those tanks will be consumed by better players in MTs, HTs, and TDs.

 

In reality won't this next update just be a period of "low-hanging fruit" where greens and better just lick their lips and devour? There will be a flood of new LT drivers who won't know a thing about LTs.

 

JM.02c

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Obviously speed is on WG's mind, hence the flow of new LTs coming. However in the hands of the ill equipped, those tanks will be consumed by better players in MTs, HTs, and TDs.

 

In reality won't this next update just be a period of "low-hanging fruit" where greens and better just lick their lips and devour? There will be a flood of new LT drivers who won't know a thing about LTs.

 

JM.02c

 

i guess that light tanks will last for 2 months (the time to grind them, play them, and rage sell them) but meds have more lasting powerbecause of both lots of lights (at the beginning) so easy kills and new prem meds coming (T54 & Panther)

 

It wont be like the type 59 flood, but it might still swing the tide towards a more mobile type of gameplay (instead of sit and snipe...)

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Obviously speed is on WG's mind, hence the flow of new LTs coming.

 

I wouldn't say that speed is anything special to WG.  The LTs being released were promised years ago, it just took them a long while to get them out the door.

 

As for the current MM lineups, that is almost entirely due to the missions.  Remember that WG ran a lot of ammo sales leading up to the prem ammo nerfs/rebalancing, and is known to be looking at improving LT gameplay.  They're just increasing the utilization of LTs (and maybe MT?) before deciding on changes to make.

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