Jump to content
Dongfeng_division

How to squeeze in Food on these tanks?

Recommended Posts

Hey everyone,

 

I'd like to add food to my keeper tanks but I don't know

a) on which tanks I should replace AFE with Food

b) on which tanks I should add Jack of All Trades and remove med kit instead of AFE

c) on which tanks I also need to add Preventive Maintenance (might be difficult to squeeze in)

 

 

On Chinese 112 and 113 I went with option (b) and thinking of doing the same with WZ-111 crew.

The rest of the tanks I'm not sure what to do with:

 

Bat Chatillon 25t - I'm pretty sure I've seen fires here and there but quite honestly anything that adds to the agility of the tank makes my life happier. It's a fun tank that's even more fun to play with Food, and I've been thinking.. fire.. what the heck, might be just worth risking. Thoughts?
AMX 50 Foch (155)  - Didn't play it much but if it's like other similar TD's I should be OK as long as I'm not shot in the side or back.
WZ-111 model 1-4 - Thinking of adding Jack of All Trades, removing med kit and adding Food.
AMX 13 90 - I feel this is the same case as Bat Chatillon.
AMX 50 100 - The last time I didn't take fire extinguisher I got hit by artillery, burned, several modules destroyed, and.. got Billotte's medal.
AMX AC mle. 48 - Seems the same case as Foch.
T28 - Dual repairs or Food? Not that either will help this tank.
Panther/M10 - German tank. Is it possible to squeeze in the Food here?
SU-8 - Is Food even worth it here or will the bonus be just way too small?
Churchil III - Should be safe to replace AFE with food no?
American light tanks - In general, what to do here?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Real quick here....AFE cost nothing if not used and supposedly helps prevent fires, food costs all the time.

 

I'm not sure what food does for fire prevention/extinguishing.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Never lose the fire extinguishers on the Chinese tanks. They seem to burn more than most other tanks.

 

As for the French, It's fairly hard to be caught on fire from the front, even the bat seems to have a fairly strong resistance to fire.

 

 

 

Honestly I think you should just do a few battles with your planned configuration and see if you like it. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a little saying that it's better to have something and not need it and need it and not have it.

 

 

The issue with not running a fire extinguisher is that if you do catch on fire you will be running into several damaged modules and maybe a dead crew member or two. That being said, fires don't happen that often.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok can you please stop spamming the thread.

 

"Never lose AFE on the Chinese.." well I certainly wasn't intending to, I know how much they burn. That's why I said I'm thinking of option (b).

 

And if I need AFE in 1 game out of 100 then I'm better off with food so "it's better not to need it" conventional wisdom isn't going to do me much good. If food will help me win 2 games out of 100 and AFE 1 game out of 100, then that's 100% increase in usefulness. Plus, with food gameplay is more enjoyable. Also, maybe I can get Tarczay medal.

 

 

The point of the thread is how to squeeze in Food if it can be squeezed, and not about turning my tank into fire brigade vehicle just because it might burn. A lot of purples here use food so if they can squeeze it in I'm pretty sure I can as well. Especially since most fires are caused by yoloing and improper positioning.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Real quick here....AFE cost nothing if not used and supposedly helps prevent fires, food costs all the time.

I don't think money is the deciding factor here.

 

The issue with not running a fire extinguisher is that if you do catch on fire you will be running into several damaged modules and maybe a dead crew member or two.

Fires don't kill crew.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey everyone,

 

I'd like to add food to my keeper tanks but I don't know

a) on which tanks I should replace AFE with Food

b) on which tanks I should add Jack of All Trades and remove med kit instead of AFE

c) or something else

 

While I'm not purple, I do use food/gas on several tanks, and I feel as though it helps to good effect.

 

132, 13 90, 50 100, 25t, T57, Leo 1 - All run food in place of AFE.  All of these crews also have Preventative Maintenance, BiA, and at least 50% into Camo/Repairs for all crew.

Pretty much ANY other light tank I run - Gas, for those diesel engines on nations that get a gas consumable, I might run food. (e.g. while not a light, my FCM 36 PaK 40, as French Gas doesn't work on diesel engines)

Min/Maxing Shitter - I'm currently trying for Ace Mastery in my T28 and ISU, both have Vents/Food (T28 has no BiA, yet) in the attempt to min-max the performance a little more to aid that.

Cancer - All my artillery run both gas and food, retaining only a repair kit. Yes, I'm a dick, with credits to burn.

 

Pretty much every other tank I run gets the holy trinity of SFAK/SRK/AFE. Think I run Large Kits on all my top tier tanks and scouts.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know if I am right or wrong on this, but to me "what to drop" always depends on the tank. On the E100, for example, I won't drop AFE, I'll drop med kit. For American lights- I suppose I'd try dropping AFE? You're in trouble if the driver dies and you have no med kit, and in even deeper shit if you get tracked in the open without a repair kit...

Edited by Chiefofops
Link to post
Share on other sites

This patch they're changing front transmissions, most won't catch fire anymore. That will change some decisions, but I'm not sure if a comprehensive list is available. I noticed Panther/PM10 were NOT listed in the changes, for example, not sure if that's correct or an oversight. This will make Preventative Maintenance less valuable as well.

 

I've been using food on a lot of tanks lately exploring the possibilities. It seems best to me to use skills to cover instead of consumables only when the tank isn't prone to that problem in the first place.

 

For crew deaths, overall armor is a big factor. Paper tanks are a bad idea, they get too many penetrating shots, even from small calibers. Heavily armored tanks I think you can justify JAT. How many crew members matters a bit too, two loaders effectively means a dead loader is half as bad as a tank with only one loader.

 

For fires there are more variables involved:

-Front transmission is an auto extinguisher, at least until next patch.

-How often will arty land a blast which can hit the engine compartment? A T29 is a safe bet because arty fire will almost always strike the turret, but flat top TDs need an extinguisher since any arty hit can cause a burn and generally a one shot. The Churchill you mentioned is a bad candidate because its turret is low and its top armor is thin, an arty round can easily cause a fire even on a non-pen.

-On tanks with lots of HPs (heavies) it matters more to be covered via extinguisher. A light tank or TD will not take much abuse anyway, so fires that mean much to your survival are naturally less common. Light tanks also get a lot of bang for their buck off oil, which I think is usually your best bet.

-What part of you is engaged most often? I have food on my Patton because 80% of the time I'm hull down and rarely front lining if my hull is exposed. I tried it on the M103 and quickly decided against that because I front line and leverage my hull armor a lot with it. Combined with weak side armor it's easy for a stray shot to pen the side and hit an engine causing a fire.

-Fuel tank location is big. Russians hate life and freedom, so some of their tanks have fuel tanks literally in the front of the tank. T-34 has fuel tanks EVERYwhere, T-43 has a big fuel tank in the front.

-How much does food help anyway? Food boosts all variables: Commander, Gunner, Loader, Driver, (Radio). On a light tank this is huge; a light needs everything on that list other than radio. For your Churchill, why bother? The driver boost won't help, the loader boost is almost overkill. Still, some tanks are so dependent on improving shit gun handling it's worth it, auto-loaders make a good candidate.

 

So for examples:

M46 Patton/Pershing: Food. I will train FF eventually but it's not major, I engage hull down most of the time and if I'm not hull down I'm either flanking or screwed as a rule. Can really use food since it uses the whole crew.

M103: Extinguisher. I often have to front line and can't always protect my sides 100%. A fire can cost me a LOT of HPs and ruin a good situation. FF for extinguisher probably viable. Food less important since driver doesn't see much gain.

T34: Food. Hull down 90%, turret blocks arty shots, really really needs the gun handling boost. Wouldn't even bother with FF.

Centurion I: Food. This tank has such trash gun handling it's needed just to be playable. Since it basically only functions by staying back and sniping or being hull down arty is my only real fire threat. No use in not burning if I can't hit anything anyway.

Churchill III: Extinguisher. Arty bait, tons of HPs to be wasted, food won't even help much. It's also a big front liner. Overall I think AFE for FF+food just isn't a worthwhile improvement.

Link to post
Share on other sites

112- fuck jack of all trades.  Just replace medkit with food.  I've been doing it for a while now, my 112 crewmembers rarely die.  No way I was gonna ditch the AFE on that.  112 is the only tank I run food on, since the gunhandling is god awful.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Could use more input specifically regarding the tanks listed and how to squeeze Food in them. Or, a counter-argument why squeezing Food on some of them is not a good idea.

 

This patch they're changing front transmissions, most won't catch fire anymore. That will change some decisions, but I'm not sure if a comprehensive list is available. I noticed Panther/PM10 were NOT listed in the changes, for example, not sure if that's correct or an oversight. This will make Preventative Maintenance less valuable as well.

 

-On tanks with lots of HPs (heavies) it matters more to be covered via extinguisher. A light tank or TD will not take much abuse anyway, so fires that mean much to your survival are naturally less common. Light tanks also get a lot of bang for their buck off oil, which I think is usually your best bet.


-How much does food help anyway? Food boosts all variables: Commander, Gunner, Loader, Driver, (Radio). On a light tank this is huge; a light needs everything on that list other than radio. For your Churchill, why bother? The driver boost won't help, the loader boost is almost overkill. Still, some tanks are so dependent on improving shit gun handling it's worth it, auto-loaders make a good candidate.

 


Churchill III: Extinguisher. Arty bait, tons of HPs to be wasted, food won't even help much. It's also a big front liner. Overall I think AFE for FF+food just isn't a worthwhile improvement.

 

Churchill III gets better traverse for example, and movement is noticably improved (albeit the tank is still slow). And although the tank aiming time is fine compared to other tanks, the reload is so fast that any improvement to the gun handling is going to be helpful. Lastly, for me Churchill III is not a 'big front liner', and I snipe in it just as much as brawl. Food will improve vision as well. As for artillery strikes, artillery is not a problem in low and mid tiers for many reasons (don't want to go off-topic), and since I'm artillery player as well my ability to avoid being hit by artillery is quite above average (and when I do get hit it's because I decided to risk). That being said, I still am not sure whether Food is a worthwhile improvement or as you said is not.

 

T28 is similiar to Churchill III in some ways (when it comes to Food usage) as the tank is not really going to be moving a lot (or moving slowly), so I'm not sure whether Food is useful for that bit of reload and vision and traverse.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I always go with food on tier tens if they don't burn to a crisp when looked at funny.

 

Or tanks with especially bad gun handling. *Glares at STB-1*

Link to post
Share on other sites

if you have a 4-5 skill Commander, always get Jack of All Trade, drop medkit, and use food.

 

if you only have 2-3 skill Commander.

 

if it get lit on fire from the front, drop medkit as well

if it get lit from the back only(Us tanks), drop FE for food.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just tried WZ-111 on Test server, with Food (and Off-Road as new experimental skill instead of 4th Repair). The tank is insane.. I was pretty much yoloing and the results were 4000+4000+5000dmg games. Of course it's Test so it's inflated but I was able to circle some enemy tanks more easily (medium tank style). Definitely gonna use Food from now on. Removed med kit, but heck it's so much fun I wouldn't even mind removing AFE and burning here and there.

 

Not sure what to do with M10 Panther, that tank needs all the repair and aid kits and AFE from what remember. So maybe Jack-of-all-Trades, not sure.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So far I've learned that I'll catch fire in M10 once in 50 games. But when I remove AFE I'll catch 2 fires in the next 10 games. Unlucky? Maybe, or that 10% reduced chance of fire has bigger impact than it seems (one of the hits was artillery shot though, but still). Thus, I use food instead of med kit. Crew deaths happen in about 12% cases, but I noticed it's mostly in the last part of the game during yoloing for higher damage, or when I was testing ramming in practice (so with more careful play crew deaths are gonna be more rare). This does not include Radio Operator who dies more than anyone else but who cares about him. I'll test fire again after transmission change if that happens again on this tank.

 

 

112- fuck jack of all trades.  Just replace medkit with food.  I've been doing it for a while now, my 112 crewmembers rarely die.  No way I was gonna ditch the AFE on that.  112 is the only tank I run food on, since the gunhandling is god awful.

 

Yup. To be more exact, I have crew deaths in 12% cases and it's always the driver. With Jack of all Trades and inherent decent mobility of 112, it's not much of a problem.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally go with (b) on almost every tank that I play with food. Most tanks still function fairly well with JoaT and one dead crew member.

 

The only tank I'm wary about using food on is the batchat line. They're a bit too vulnerable to crew deaths/fires. Personally, I just run the standard setup on these tanks. If you have hard data on it's flammability and think it's rare enough for you to stomach, I'd drop the extinguisher; even with JoaT a dead gunner/driver on the bat is just painful. 

 

It might be a good tradeoff once you have preventative maintenance, though.

Link to post
Share on other sites

lel, spencer, we've disagreed on this point in the past, but batchat is one where never find common ground. 

 

DF, for the french and food, except for league play, food is optimal third and AFE is the economical option. The biggest reason for this is french tanks are glass cannons.

 

In the case of fire risk, due to its small size, a bat (or 1390) can get lit from relatively small caliber rounds  (a quick factoid, but rounds only penetrate for 10x their caliber deep into a tank.) ; the best way to avoid this is out-spotting, not bouncing shots, better traverse to avoid getting hit, and shorter reload. Odds are in a bat, if you're lit, you're probably fucked, but if you've got a repair kit and survive the toasty (which'll cover anything where you're above 50% after the damaging shot but before the first fire tick) you're still viable. Even with jack, losing a crew member for a bat makes you useless. 

 

For Chinese light/med, Jack + med kit, for chinese heavy, I'd almost not risk it, because they seem to have badly placed everything. so that you'll eat the crappy side of any trade-off.

 

cancer you can throw food anywhere really, but typically drop the AFE (how many cancer can survive two shots?  

 

Brit heavies, don't, they have piss poor crew/mod placement. Brit meds I still haven't found a happy balance yet. 

 

Church 3: brah, save up for an is-6, 

 

American lights: Some of these really step up with food + fuel. drop AFE first, med second, and skill compensate in like order. 

 

Fascist heavy: drop med kit + jack. Quite often people discount these but ignore that caliber pen rules + crew placement tend to really mitigate the circumstances where you'll lose vital crew. Alas poor ehundo radio guy, no one liked you anyways.

 

to close off, here's a tl;dr rule of thumb:

always drop AFE on autoloaders, cancer, and anything where mobility/camo is primary defensive strat.  

always drop medkit if an armored heavy without telltale weak crew placement.

ELSE

Stick to LRK, LMK, AFE where tank doesn't meet above

Also good addition to it:

if it get lit on fire from the front, drop medkit as well

if it get lit from the back only(Us tanks), drop FE for food.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The only tank I'm wary about using food on is the batchat line. They're a bit too vulnerable to crew deaths/fires.

 

I'd have to test that in practice and get some hard data like I did for 112 and M10. If you check the official EU forums you'll see people complain about 112 burning all the time, modules destroyed and what not. But in my experience that usually happens when tank isn't used properly.

 

112 "Alabama tick" tactic drastically changes the vulnerability of that tank:

 

Batchat feels so much better with food that I have to find a way to squeeze food in. It's a quality of life thing.

 

 

 

 for chinese heavy, I'd almost not risk it, because they seem to have badly placed everything. so that you'll eat the crappy side of any trade-off.

 

Church 3: brah, save up for an is-6, 

 

American lights: Some of these really step up with food + fuel. drop AFE first, med second, and skill compensate in like order. 

 

1, Chinese heavies (more specifically WZ 111 and 112 and I don't have enough data for others atm) lose crew only in about cca 12% cases for me (not counting Radio Operator), and even some of that could be mitigated with more careful gameplay. The thing with Chinese heavies is that reckless gameplay results in frequent module damage and crew death, but with careful gameplay crew loss is rare. 

 

2. Credit's aren't an issue. I want maximum performance and have no problem with running Octane+Food on the same tank as long as I can squeeze it in. 

 

3. Indeed, just checked their h.p./weight ratio and looks great, but I need to test it in practice. I need to see how I can make use of it, because Food benefit is obvious to me whereas Octane is less so. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

3. Indeed, just checked their h.p./weight ratio and looks great, but I need to test it in practice. I need to see how I can make use of it, because Food benefit is obvious to me whereas Octane is less so. 

 

The big ones where octane will help with the lights (and the french get hosed again without) is that it'll keep speed up much better through terrain + climbing, which in turn lets you transition faster to exploit overmatchs, and increases in turret traverse speed, which lets you out traverse any offset from hull traverse, and circle jerk stuff a lot more efficiently on terrain. Also gives an added boost to some hilarious mountain goating with the new lights. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...