So should everyone get Sixth Sense?

[General_6 9]

So with today's FTR Storm's conference call mentioned that sixth sense may be planned as a radioman perk skill that everyone would get once their radioman was trained at 100%. Your thoughts on this?

Frankly, while I have spent a lot of time training up crews to have it (feel so naked without it), this is one area where I feel players with 1000's of battle have a significant advantage over newer players, and it is unrelated to skill, map knowledge, or core mechanics. So while it's frustrating to have ground this on a majority of my tanks, I do feel it is a bit unfair for those starting out, or starting a new line.

(Added fifth choice as Rexxie has an interesting POV)

[KnobbyHobbGoblin 1,002]

Frankly, while I have spent a lot of time training up crews to have it (feel so naked without it)

I only play World of Tanks while naked anyways, so I don't really notice the difference when playing with/without it.

 

In a more serious note, I suppose it would be better for gameplay if it was available for everyone, but I love having a bit of a leg-up against the shitlordes to compensate for my bad playing.

[reepneep 18]

None of the other crew skills come close to it in terms of usefulness. Sixth is so powerful its ubiquitous. Thats just bad game design. 

 

Whether it should be made universal or removed from the game is a legit question (Im in favor of the former) but this needs to be adressed either way.

[Rexxie 10,788]

Sixth Sense as default for all tanks is not worthwhile, imho. The skill is broken. I'd rather see it removed entirely.

 

Sixth Sense as a default for lights? Most definitely.

[Lucid Fugue 19]

I only just got it on my Russian heavy crew. Even there it has been educational as I start to see areas where I'm exposed to enemy fire early (helps prevent overextending), and of course it's invaluable in the late game.

I think the game takes a slightly different approach when you have it and when you don't and for that reason I think it would be a shame to have it all the time for everyone. Maybe lowering the requirements for it would be the best solution.

[CarbonatedPork 1,585]

Sixth Sense as default for all tanks is not worthwhile, imho. The skill is broken. I'd rather see it removed entirely.

 

Sixth Sense as a default for lights? Most definitely.

Like always, Rexxie finds a way to give me a chub.

I'd give you an upboat if I didn't already blow my load in Bun's thread.

[jacg123 656]

Sixth sense is one of those things that keeps the game bearable for me. Robocraft actually made "lightbulb" a default in their game. That said, the game works differently. You are always "spotted," there's just view distance fog to prevent people from seeing you from across the map. However, if somebody gets a radar fix on you or presses "Q" on you to spot you, you get a red (!). From the enemy's perspective, you now have a marker over your head, and you know it.

Rex says 6th is broken... I'm not sure I entirely agree on it being a broken skill. It is more powerful than the other skills yes, and it does give a significant advantage to have it... But if this happens and everyone gets it, I don't think it could be properly described as broken. Broken compared to what? At that point, there would be nothing to compare it to.

(edit) To clarify, I mean I don't agree on it needing removal.

Also, if this change pushes through, that will encourage me to buy back a fuckton of tanks. My primary inhibition in getting back old tanks is that I don't have enough of a desire to train the new crew for 6th. If I don't have to.... Let's just say that I would be speding a lot of time grinding credits.

[Balthazars 210]

Personally, I feel that the reason 6th sense is so powerful is that it is one of the few defences against invisible tanks blowing you apart before you even get a chance to realise that you're spotted. The other reason it's so powerful is that it lets you get a gauge on where the opponent might actually be, particularly when things are down to the wire and only a few tanks are left in play.

 

I do think that if you introduced it for all tanks, all the time, then it becomes a 'level playing field' and will probably be okay in terms of balance. Whether you believe the powers that it grants are valid or broken however, is another question. I think the suggestion of limiting it to light tanks has some merit, as this gives light tanks a very unique power and role in terms of scouting.

 

In terms of the actual poll however, I'd say that the current system certainly creates an imbalance, mostly due to ignorance in the player-base about how important having 6th is knowing you are spotted and how to react accordingly.

[CarbonatedPork 1,585]

Given a choice between everyone having sixth sense and nobody having it I'd definitely prefer the latter. It would reward players skilled enough to have an intuitive feel for when they're spotted and would encourage more aggressive gameplay. Rexxie's LT-only sixth would be hnnnghtastic, but way too abusable and, IMO, more broken than sixth sense already is.

[Rexxie 10,788]

Rex says 6th is broken... I'm not sure I entirely agree on it being a broken skill. It is more powerful than the other skills yes, and it does give a significant advantage to have it... But if this happens and everyone gets it, I don't think it could be properly described as broken. Broken compared to what? At that point, there would be nothing to compare it to.

(edit) To clarify, I mean I don't agree on it needing removal.

 

You can read the sixth bit to see why I think the skill is broken, albeit not necessarily in the context of everyone having it. I think the fact that you need to grind it out makes it all the more broken, and to that end I think we agree. Other than that, though, I really feel the skill negatively impacts how the game is played - people lean on it far too much because after all, it is almost perfect. This devalues certain types of skill (like estimating where your opponents may be without actually knowing) that should be fully rewarded. Sixth also actually slows the game down, sometimes to a complete halt.

 

Imagine this: pubbie sits on prokhorovka hill, trying to decide to push down. With sixth sense, he crests the hill, gets his magic alert, immediately backs down and sits on the hill because sixth pops every time he moves. He therefor contributes to the camp. The same, without sixth: pubbie crests... but no warning. He's three quarters way before the first shot hits the dirt next to him - too late to back out! Guy is pushed into following through on his decision and either successfully plays on the offense or dies - either way, he's pushing the game along.

 

@Pork, I'm not sure how lt-only sixth would be abusable, care to detail?

[Shifty_101st 1,144]

it should remain an optional crew skill.  If I have sixth sense and the opponent doesn't, it just means that I can pelt him from distance while he freaks out and tries to scramble to cover, and do it OVER AND OVER AND OVER again.

[Rexxie 10,788]

it should remain an optional crew skill.  If I have sixth sense and the opponent doesn't, it just means that I can pelt him from distance while he freaks out and tries to scramble to cover, and do it OVER AND OVER AND OVER again.

 

This is a joke, right

[Tjerry 185]

I believe that removing sixth sense would change the flow of battles, i for certain would take much less risks, maybe even forced to camp.

 

 

Imagine this: pubbie sits on prokhorovka hill, trying to decide to push down. With sixth sense, he crests the hill, gets his magic alert, immediately backs down and sits on the hill because sixth pops every time he moves. He therefor contributes to the camp. The same, without sixth: pubbie crests... but no warning. He's three quarters way before the first shot hits the dirt next to him - too late to back out! Guy is pushed into following through on his decision and either successfully plays on the offense or dies - either way, he's pushing the game along.

On this, how would unicums play? i doubt many would do that rush down the hill, basically rewarding unicums that wait for the pubbies to derp?

[night1rider 106]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't sixth sense provided on the Xbox version?

[CarbonatedPork 1,585]

@Pork, I'm not sure how lt-only sixth would be abusable, care to detail?

OK, maybe not abusable. That was poor word choice. It would be too much of an advantage to give to light tanks as a consolation prize for being shitty mediums. Honestly, I think just removing sixth sense altogether would greatly benefit tanks with good camo because people would be a-herpa-derping along without even knowing that they're spotted until they get hammered; scout tanks with their ridiculous camo and camo-on-the-move would be the biggest benefactors of that gameplay change.

[Pitch_Black 157]

How about changing it to an additional piece of equipment that costs like a GLD? Call it an EPI (enemy presence indicator). You decide which tanks to put it on... Why do you care if you're spotted as a top-tier heavy? You should be in the middle of the fracas anyways.

**edit...the more I think of this, the more it makes too much sense for WG.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Pitch_Black

[Rexxie 10,788]

Why do you care if you're spotted as a top-tier heavy? You should be in the middle of the fracas anyways.

 

Dont think of it like that, that's how pubbies think. "I dont need sixth because my tiger/kv/whatever is rly powerful" is terrible. Also, making it equipment does not fix the main problem at all.

 

 

On this, how would unicums play? i doubt many would do that rush down the hill, basically rewarding unicums that wait for the pubbies to derp?

 

If you're asking what the right call would be to make there, it depends. That's the whole point - using deductive reasoning etc. a "unicum" could accurately make the right call.

[NoobestNoob 223]

I stoped using it, because i got so used to it after unlocking it for thefirst time that it actually hampered my gameplay on tanks without it. Yes im a masochist and maybe retarded

[Pitch_Black 157]

Pubbies will complain if they have it, if they don't, if it didn't indicate in the time they expected, do they really need a reason to complain? Eliminate the problem? No of course not, but it will make it a more level playing field...and that's an improvement.

We all know WG won't eliminate it.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Pitch_Black

[FastestClassic 0]

For one, it'd give me a reason to train my radiomen to 100% (I tend to just save some gold and start 'em down at 50-75% depending on the tank UNLESS IT'S A SCOUT). On the other hand, it'd open up a spot for another perk on my commander (i.e. Eagle Eye). I'd have to vote yes.

[MaxL_1023 1,295]

6th sense is broken - the advantage it gives is on par with shooting gold ammo for many tanks. Autoloaders, TDs and Sniper Mediums are made much, much more effective with this skill. I use it as much not to know when I am lit but when I am not lit - being able to sit still in the open dealing damage can often be the optimal play when nothing has spotted you. Without 6th sense this becomes suboptimal due to the high risk involved. 

 

I don't want it removed entirely, but it should somehow be reworked. 

 

Possible Reworking Options:

 

1. Class Specific range limits. 500m for lights, 400m for mediums/arty, 350m for TDs and 300m for heavies. In general, the more vulnerable you are to fire and the more "scouty" your role, the better your 6th sense is. 

 

2. Class Specific Activation Time. 2s for lights, 3s for mediums/arty, 4s for TDs and 5s for heavies. Scoutier tanks have a 6th which pops faster.

 

3. Non-Guaranteed Activation. 100/90/80/75% chance to work for the tank classes - sometimes you will be lit and it won't pop. Adds some RNG, but not crippling.

 

4. Activation Arc. Have 6th sense only work within +- 45 degrees of your gun. You need to be "looking" in the right direction to know if you are lit. Improves flanking, skill can compensate by anticipating spotting vectors. 

 

5. Some combination of the above, or other.

 

Basically, 6th sense should work differently across tank classes and have something else to it besides a flat 3s spotting notification. 

[General_Fault 115]

I am bad enough *with* Sixth. I would be abysmal without it. In fact, the 2 tier 7s I played without Sixth have a 34% and 47%, every other 7(except the scout) has >50%. Obviously it is OP since it can pull me from a deep red to a green, but I don't care enough about fairness to go back to being a red; see gold rounds.

[Lowlife555 108]

 

Possible Reworking Options:

 

 

2. Class Specific Activation Time. 2s for lights, 3s for mediums/arty, 4s for TDs and 5s for heavies. Scoutier tanks have a 6th which pops faster.

 

 

What about adding 1s to this, have it as free on all radiomens 100%, then you can still train sixt sense, which would reduce the time to the above.

[tomego 213]

I think arguments can be made that its existence makes the game campier but on the other hand, I think arguments can be made that its removal would also contribute to a campy meta. I don't know which actually occurs or would occur. I feel like it is a double edged sword for spotters. It is nice to know that TD camping in the bush spotted you but once you spot someone, they often scramble before your pubbies respond to a target that isn't in their tunnel vision. As Max mentioned,  I think that 6th should somehow be related to the role of the vehicle. Class specific would be the easiest although I feel that there can be a diversity of roles within the same class which should be taken into consideration while fine tuning the skill. The fact that it is the first perk on a commander I and everyone else with half a brain uses points to the strength it has in comparison to other skills. FTR has also mentioned that they are developing new skills/perks or altering the existing ones to make more parity between them. It will be interesting to see what they decide to do. 

 

On a side note, a useful skill added to the radioman would be nice, the class I feel has the least valuable skills. That said, it makes almost no sense. Somehow the radioman not looking outside the vehicle feels the vibes outside the tank and alerts people? The only scenario I can think of that makes sense is that he hears radio chatter of them being targeted? 

 

Finally, I grind out a lot of crews. I have many that are in the process of grinding out their first set of skills to 100%. After reaching 100% and I switch the commander to sixth, I play more confidently because I know when either I get lit or I can continue to get away with something because I not not yet been lit. I think anyone who denies how much of an impact it has on their gameplay is in denial. 

[Pocktio 730]

Removal would make the game even campier. Pubbies are cowards at best, and if you remove the ubiquitous sixth sense they will leave base

 

If you suddenly remove the ability to know when you are lit, pubbies will become even more hesistant to do anything because they are so scared to get their paint scratched. They're scared enough as is, I can't imagine how horrifying this game will be without sixth sense available

 

@ Rexxie's hill argument. I'd wager that pubbie won't even crest anymore. Unless he's a yolotato he doesn't have the crutch of sixth sense so it just wouldn't be worth cresting. Best to stay safe. I especially doubt he'd continue to push down after taking a hit. Taking hits is super scary, he'd madly try and reverse back into cover. At least with SS he'd do it sooner and you'd have more HP to bait left.