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So should everyone get Sixth Sense?

Should everyone get sixth sense?  

176 members have voted

  1. 1. Should everyone get sixth sense just by getting radioman to 100%?

    • Screw you...everyone needs to put in the work
    • Yes... Current situation unfair to new players
    • Yes...allows me more choices in other skills
    • Who cares...pubbies be pubbin and this will not change gameplay at all.
    • (Added) Sixth sense is a broken mechanic and should be removed from game


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I'm baffled as to how do people even consider removal of the sixth sense. It's beyond stupid, unless you're masochist^2.
The removal of sixth sense would benefit skycancer the most of all classes, campers or ``defensive'' players too, due to very few mechanics in the game to defend against it, which I can think of 2 first being sixth sense second spall liner. Coupled with 100% unreliable and unpredictable spotting mechanics and arbitrary bush/trees camo %. On top of that it would literally cripple all the new players that would want to get decent at the game, due to again, camo mechanics. Because right now person can guesstimate when he gets spotted and if he does, he gets confirmation for this, maybe veteran players could adapt, but for newer who would start to play after the sixth sense removal would never have had this information/skill, intuition if you may.

Removal of sixth sense would mean punishment of active or aggressive play, which this game already lacks. And what positives would it bring to the gameplay? Can't think of much, enlighten me pls.

On top of that, this game has SO many flawed and broken mechanics while the game balance itself is out the window and has been since its inception. And in the end this game requires barely any skill to be competitive/good, maybe it's time to end the circlejerking. While at this why not make a historical realism battles, with no UI, one shots, no crew skills and skill mm in randoms, that'd be fun! Or retarded, I'm towards the later tho... The idea is incredibly stupid, what else? Buffs to skycancer, I think they've got enough of them already, esp since 8.6 buff made them beyond op, op isn't even fitting word anymore to describe as to how broken the shit is. Needless to say, these aren't the only reasons why it's stupid.

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It should only be removed if arty is removed.  In the mean time, I would make it standard or easy to train like the proposed radioman perk.

 

I'm also mildly excited to be able to use other command skills and perks once that is implemented.

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I don't want 6th sense to be removed. I also don't like the idea to connect it to a 100% trained radioman. In this case you can buy an advantage with gold. it is something that you have to work for. Just dying forward doesn't help.

 

I'm of the opinion that removal of the 6th sense supports hardcore camping and gives arty an additional advantage in higher tiers.

 

I play my tier 3-5 without 6th sense. The crews need more training. My opponents normally also don't have 6th sense at this stage.

 

Range restrictions and longer time until 6th sense gets activated rewards camping with heavies and I suffer from this already enough.

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Firstly, 6th sense is vital to the flow of the game. It is a safety line for tanks going for aggressive play and increase the survivability of those players by a fair margin. The moment it disappears, we will see more camping and less aggressive spotting or attempts to push forward. It also prevent players from sitting still until they get nuked by arty.

 

Secondly, 6th sense needs to be rebalanced. It outclasses all other skills and perks so much that it is basically mandatory on every tank, and that is evidence of exceedingly poor balance. Balance means there should be more than one viable option when a choice is presented, and reduces the effectiveness of skills and perks as one of the few ways to customise a tank's performance.

 

Taking into account both the above points, I am heavily in favour of making it free for all players. I don't even see the need to peg it to 100% on the radioman. They can just make it an inherent vision mechanic.

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Removing sixth sense would hurt tanks that can't afford to get shot at the most, I think that some like the Leo 1 would be quite hard to play without any way of knowing when you are spotted, although I never played the game from before sixth sense existed so I don't really know what it's like where no-one has it.

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I believe that there is one thing that hasn't been mentioned so far: A dead radio operator would mean 6th sense stops working. This might just cost a lot of med kits over time and it adds another dilemma: If several crew members get knocked out i.e. radio man and commander you can choose between losing 6th or losign view range. I already pity KV-5 drivers if this makes it into the game. Since it is inked with the vox operator it also raises the question if a damaged radio won't affect 6th sense functionality.
This is also an indirect arty buff since its HE damage now has an even easier time crippling a tank...

One thing I am however really curious about is how this changes low tier game play. I believe that it will teach new players how to duck for cover first and foremost. Not that they wouldn't be cmping anyways, but this really buffs the low tier death machines and seal clubbers that do not yet have 6th on their favorite toy. And I think it can be taken for granted that hordes of 6th sense SU-85 Bs are not good. So far you needed to have the advanced crew, but after this hits? Seal clubbing El Dorado.

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6th sense doesn't categoricaly benefit the defense and its removal wouldn't categorically buff campers / arty. It will increase the time a given, spotted tank is under fire by getting rid of the tripwire warning they now benefit from.

This will increase damage in encounters of both an offensive AND defensive nature. In the active scout / vision control game, this will allow the attacker more time to damage tanks before they dig in HARDER. This will all mildly contribute to depopulating a map faster and improving the pace of gameplay.

I think the only hard and fast statement is unciums / better players will deal with its removal better than average and bad players, and that if it were removed, the whinning would be immense.

I'm of the opinion it is in no way necessary for scouting / staying safe / staying safe from arty. What helps you do all that is to be a well-rounded, good player and further proclomations linking 6th sense to gameplay balance is a lazy scapegoat.

After reading everything and posting, I would change my vote to get rid if it. (I voted I like the ability to reallocate skills, but mostly because I doubt the devs remove it)

Edit: also the idea removal would make campier meta: the current end tiers clog the map so thoroughly now (all of thrbmap control and vision corridors are covered in about 1 minute 30 seconds, +/- 30 seconds depending on map) that stagnation results just as much FROM 6th sense. It TELLS YOU the safe limit of advance.

Think of this example: an extremely fast scout position (Malinovka field, Erlenberg castle N spawn) can light tanks moving to a flank. Problem? They KNOW they're lit on the way there. They'll arrive to their destination already cowed into "I have no idea what's out there but I know it knows I'm here" pubbie mindset. Now, they can get somewhere and think they have the drop on someone. And the lowest / middle tiers, all vision is wonky now.

TL;DR -- tier 10 is naturally stagnant because of small map design and the low/midtiers have huge variances in vision capabilities and has so many less skilled players, yolo is going to happen.

People are assigning 6th sense some huge, meta impact if its removed but I don't see convincing arguments it will patently change anything but tier 7-8 gameplay.

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I see several arguments here so I will address each seperately

 

Should Sixth Sense be in the game: Yes. I think it is essential to informed gameplay

 

Should Sixth Sense be made easier to aquire: No. The effort put into crew skills should be rewarded. Also this is a money generating element for WG as many players swap to 6th wiith gold later. Considering this is the best FTP model around, I would not risk proposing anything that might change it.

 

Is Sixth Sense unfair to new players: Yes, but there are other possible solutions to fix "crew clubbing" without breaking Sixth Sense that would also fix other crew disparity elements.

 

For instance WG could limit crew skills usage based on battle tier at load in

Tiers 1-3  100% limit only core skill active

Tiers 4-5  200% limit Sixth Sense possible

Tiers 6-7  300% limit

Tiers 8-9  400% limit

Tier 10 unlimited

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We all know WG won't eliminate it.

 

Actually a while back there was something about SerB apparently not liking 6th sense and would like it gone, but others disagree with him I assume.

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Small reminder: 6th sense wasn't in the game when launched. If you think its necessary you should probably wonder if it is a crutch / you just think its a crutch.

I've grinded crews to a first crew skill in every year of the games existence and I don't have an especially harder time playing due to no 6th sense. Play without it sometime (just not platooned, obviously): it will change your play very little; if anything, like playing modless, you have to think MORE, and that helps.

A bigger issue is having no camo + no repair when grinding. 6th sense completion is always a big 1st skill goal, but my win rate doesn't surge upon completing it.

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I played before sixth.  I think the game would be fine without.  Campers will camp with or without, they'll just die faster without.  

 

I think the automation proposed is the second best solution.  Possibly the best.  Removal would likely cause too much backlash.

 

In its place, I'd like to see a new skill.  Let new sixth sense indicate when arti is aiming in your grid square.

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The idea of giving it to light tanks only by default seems like a really good one that would finally justify their abusive MM. They could actually create a new category, "Scout", which would be defined by full camo while moving and auto sixth sense to clearly differentiate regular MM lights and broad MM lights. Scouts finally truly could be their team's eyes, even giving instruction feedback regarding when they are detected or suspected enemy locations.

 

Too bad WG never does anything innovative.

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I've been saying this since perks were first introduced:

 

It either needs false positives or a failure rate. 

 

For example, if a enemy scout would have seen you move with a 100% crew, but didn't see you because of a 75% commander, sixth sense should go off anyhow.

 

Might be a half measure though.  v0v

 

I posted this suggestion on the WGNA forums back then, along with other ideas.  Specifically, I suggested renaming Sixth Sense to "Bilingual" or something similar, moving the skill to the radioman, and giving the skill a chance to false-positive any time you hit another tank, whether you were spotted or not.

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As long as it remains in the game sixth sense should be earned (crew perk or proficiency grinding) and should be able to be acquired by all tank classes.

 

it may provide a leg up by letting me know that I am spotted, but the only time that is useful is when I am out in the open moving from cover to cover. It is useless in a brawl, city fight, lane fight, etc. 

 

Expanding on what Deusmortis stated, pubbies are going to pub.

The intelligent players and those wanting to improve their game play are the ones who, I feel, gain the most from sixth sense. If sixth sense were given to everyone on the servers, the majority would not understand what is happening when it activates in battle. For some it might reinforce their camping habits, for others it would be one more thing they would (possibly) turn to the forums to find a way to turn off and the rest would just go "Oh that is cool." and continue to yolo into the enemy.

 

While it is a high beneficial perk it is not a cure all for a poor understanding of the game mechanics or poor decision making, it assists the better players by being one more variable in their decision making process when determining what action(s) to take next. 

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I can't believe we got 3 pages into this with nobody mentioning what a crazy boon auto-6th would have on the game as a whole:

 

It's the single best teacher of vision mechanics to new players.  

 

It is insane that a skill this valuable at training new players isn't available to them for such a long time.  

Everyone complains about tomatoes, but what the hell is WG doing to try and help them out?  One tutorial?  

 

I want everyone to have it so that everyone in the game gets better faster.  As the general skill level of player rises, the more strategic randoms can become.

This is also why free crew starting at 50% is a sin.  Let's take all our new players, and give them crew so bad that they can't move around and put them in the same game with people who can run circles around them.  

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I can't believe we got 3 pages into this with nobody mentioning what a crazy boon auto-6th would have on the game as a whole:

 

It's the single best teacher of vision mechanics to new players.  

 

It is insane that a skill this valuable at training new players isn't available to them for such a long time.  

Everyone complains about tomatoes, but what the hell is WG doing to try and help them out?  One tutorial?  

 

I want everyone to have it so that everyone in the game gets better faster.  As the general skill level of player rises, the more strategic randoms can become.

This is also why free crew starting at 50% is a sin.  Let's take all our new players, and give them crew so bad that they can't move around and put them in the same game with people who can run circles around them.  

 

That would be nice, but WG does not stand for Walgreens (aka Perfect).

 

Even if WG implemented sixth sense and 100% starting crews for everyone there are players who would still be terrible and who would not invest the time to learn the game.

 

I was in a game once where a player in an IS4, who had some odd thousand battles on the way to the IS4, asked if BIA decreases the amount of time it takes to load the next shell. If the player had been proactive, even once, about learning the game mechanics they would have found their answer through google, the forum or the wiki page about Crew

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Even if WG implemented sixth sense and 100% starting crews for everyone there are players who would still be terrible and who would not invest the time to learn the game.

So because some people will never learn, lets handicap all the people who are trying?

You make it sound as if a valuable addition to the game is worthless because a few people will still manage to be awful.  

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I like weesh's point, and I alluded to learning a lot more about parts of the maps that are safe once I unlocked sixth on my heavy crew, but I don't think it should be all on or all off, because the game is playable under both conditions and nobody can agree if it would be better or worse.

But if you flip the concept of sixth as being an assist for newbies, that goes against the theme of all the skills, perks, and equipment being rewards for effort and hard work.

There could be something in that, having assists that reduce credit income of you have them turned on, but that's messing with the established pattern too much I think.

I'd say they just need to do better at getting newbies to understand the game. This isn't the only game where external forums say "ignore everything in the tutorial, it's crap. Read this user guide instead and start watching streams"

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It is OP and I use it every way I can, but I can't imagine not having it now.  Pubbies would camp harder and players actually trying to make something happen without being yolo stupid would just get penalized for forgetting how spotty vision mechanics can be.  Such as the times you sit there in a tier 8 medium with recon, situational awareness and optics only to wonder what keeps spotting you only to find later that it was the typical red/orange KV-1S pubby getting divine blessing from the RNGesus. 

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So because some people will never learn, lets handicap all the people who are trying?

You make it sound as if a valuable addition to the game is worthless because a few people will still manage to be awful.  

 

If you read the first sentence of the post you quoted I agreed with you.

 

I am not however as optimistic as you that there would be drastic improvements in pubbie performance during random battles. I have been in too many tier 6+ battles recently to have faith that pubbies would benefit from a handout of 100% crews and sixth sense. If 100% crew made you better then why are players with tens of thousands of battle still horrible on their 5th or 6th tier 8? I would expect them to have spent credits for at least 75% crew at around tier 5 and be on their 2nd or 3rd crew skill by tier 8.

 

If sixth sense were handed out to everyone or taken away players would still camp, I would still make poor decisions and the world would go on. 

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