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Where do you stand on the skill MM idea?

Skill MM  

203 members have voted

  1. 1. Should it happen?



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I would not mind a mild form of skill based MM. Basically giving players a weight based on their skill level and than roughly trying to balance the teams. Kind of like the MM currently does with tanks.

 

I don't really want 100% balanced matches, but preventing those >30% win chance games that are frustrating when you are in the red team and boring when in the other team would be a good thing in my opinion. Because those extremely unbalanced matches are not enjoyable at all.

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Excactly getting ROLFstomped or not doing anything cause the battle duration is below 4min is ridiculous and not fun ...

 

If i gaot a tight battle with some good damage in it i don't care that much if it's a loose unless me or my teammates did a stupid fail ...

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Excactly getting ROLFstomped or not doing anything cause the battle duration is below 4min is ridiculous and not fun ...

,,,

 

 

Guess what - in most cases that doesnt have to do anything with "unbalanced" skill distribution! Its a result of game design decisions from the last 2 years incl. among other things:

 

masses of autoloaders (high burst), more high alpha/pen guns, gold ammo for credits, sigma change

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Yeah maybe you right but still there is no fun in 4min battle ..

 

Give every tank 2k more health  8) trololololol

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Lots of bad ways to make skill based mm. Lots of ways to make the game more annoying for good players while making it little easier for deep reds.

Balancing the teams will lead to good players getting worse teams in the long run. If you are above average you need below average team to average your skill out. Mirror matching leads to long queue times. Division based system has the problem that most players are in the middle and very few are above or below average. Division system needs more work than just few lines of code into the matchbreaker.

I don't get where deusmortis gets the idea that skill based mm "doesn't work". There are ways to make it work. Some of those don't even punish good players or reward bad players.

I still think balancing the number of shitty players in both teams and leaving the rest rng is best sounding option. Still needs some kind of elo type rating. I even calculated it somewhere that bad players overall have bigger effect on teams winning or losing because there are more shitlords than gudplayers.

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Make two game modes:

1) Normal for everyone

2) Ranked (available only for (elited) T10 vehicles)

 

After 2 months the Ranked game mode is removed due to low amount of players, problem solved.

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Make two game modes:

1) Normal for everyone

2) Ranked (available only for (elited) T10 vehicles)

 

After 2 months the Ranked game mode is removed due to low amount of players, problem solved.

Not sure if stupid or just funny. Skill based mm only for elited tier 10s? Make it on purpose so bad that no one wants to play it? Then claim sbm always sucks.

Looks like the only problem you just solved is to how to write a post about sbm without actually adding anything useful to the discussion.

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Not sure if stupid or just funny. Skill based mm only for elited tier 10s? Make it on purpose so bad that no one wants to play it? Then claim sbm always sucks.

Looks like the only problem you just solved is to how to write a post about sbm without actually adding anything useful to the discussion.

 

Not sure if stupid or just dumb. Skill based MM for stock Leo PTA and every other silly tank? Tier 7 ranked games? Tier 4? You want stock M48 Fatton matched against team T-62A or what? God help us all if that shit happens.

Ranked games should come as a separate game mode for top tier tanks, or not at all.

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Not sure if stupid or just dumb. Skill based MM for stock Leo PTA and every other silly tank? Tier 7 ranked games? Tier 4? You want stock M48 Fatton matched against team T-62A or what? God help us all if that shit happens.

Ranked games should come as a separate game mode for top tier tanks, or not at all.

Yeah you just make stupid ideas and represent them as mine so you can tell me they are stupid.

Why again only tier 10s as ranked games? You did not actually ever give any reason.

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Team Battle mode died largely because of skill-based matchmaking. I (along with all my friends) got tired of waiting 5 minutes for a 5 minute game. 

 

The 30-second queue time in random matches is already borderline-intolerable. Any skill-based matchmaking that increases queue times is a non-starter for me. 

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Team Battle mode died largely because of skill-based matchmaking. I (along with all my friends) got tired of waiting 5 minutes for a 5 minute game. 

 

The 30-second queue time in random matches is already borderline-intolerable. Any skill-based matchmaking that increases queue times is a non-starter for me.

This.

Hay guys, look at new mode, skill based MM!

2 weeks later.... Hmmm, I'm waiting 5 minutes just to be dumped in against shitlords and rofl stomp them. Why do we have skill based MM again?

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This.

Hay guys, look at new mode, skill based MM!

2 weeks later.... Hmmm, I'm waiting 5 minutes just to be dumped in against shitlords and rofl stomp them. Why do we have skill based MM again?

 

well, thats the reason good players stopped doing it, but what about the masses? why did they stop?

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Honestly, thinking of any real way to implement this is just a dead end. I want to devil's advocate, and be like 'ranked random with maptac like loading screen' but there's so many fucking holes in any 'skill' concept that it's just not feasible. 

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well, thats the reason good players stopped doing it, but what about the masses? why did they stop?

 

Because the masses can't coordinate for shit and they were getting beat up on by the teams of goods who had no comparable team to be matched up against.

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The idea that 'skill-based MM will lead to a paradise of close fought games' needs to go die in a fucking fire.  There are so many more factors that go into a roflstomp game beyond skill-- tank composition, RNG, deployment, etc.-- that it makes trying to balance skill via MM pointless.  Never mind the fact that it's a fool's errand to quantify skill in a mechanic to then base all your MM decisions around in the first place.

 

I *really* don't want a world where you pick a tier, then you go into a screen where each team bans some tanks, then they take turns picking tanks.  Then we argue over who gets to go into which lane so that we can try and farm up points to advance on an ELO ladder.

 

For the love of all that is holy, please fucking no.

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Well, they seem to be asking people over email about it... I just hope they are not asking the wrong people, if they want to know how would a skill based MM affect the game then they should be asking the really skilled players.

 

Considering I didn't get any email to any poll, that could be either a very good thing (they are asking people better than me) or a very very very bad thing (they are asking random people).

 

On this forum, I see many of the best players on the NA server.  Many, if not most of you are very intelligent.  However, being smart and being good at the game are not a guaranteed pairing - neither is being good at the game and understanding the meta of game development overall or for this game in particular.

 

To put it another way, show me some evidence that skill at playing a game translates directly into skill at designing a game.  The two activities may not be strictly unrelated, but there are considerations in design that have no parallel in just playing.  I'm sure there are many grandmasters in chess who couldn't design a game to get themselves out of a paper bag.

 

As for not getting an email for the poll, well, we play on the US servers.  I doubt any of the surveys were sent to players on the US servers.

 

I think it could work if there was a separate queue, a 1 tier spread, smaller player count per battle (9-12 or so), and a much larger player base.

 

As it stands, there are nowhere near enough players in the US to really make it work.

 

Segmenting the queue may not kill the US servers completely, but I think it would be a very, very bad idea.

 

Considering that I'm opposed to SBMM, the only proposal that I've seen that I think has any merit is to put the balancing as a step taken after the match is made (after the teams are selected from queue) that rebalances the teams based on skill.  Unfortunately, that idea is only half baked, as that rebalance for skill will almost certainly nuke the match balance for tank weight.  What good does it do to shuffle team lineups for skill when one team's unicum is driving an AMX 40 and the other team's is driving a Hellcat?  (The first one is grinding a new line, give him a break!)

 

I think the game could use a rebalance step to make matches more even on tank weight and class, and that alone would be enough to ease complaints about stacked battles, but that's just my opinion.

 

Overall I'm trying to pay attention objectively to my battle results.  I do not see lopsided scores so often that I think it's a problem.  Just to establish a baseline, I consider a game lopsided if at the end of the game the winning team lost four tanks or less.  Without performing a detailed statistical analysis, my gut feeling (guess) is that these happen less than 20% of the time.  Regardless of the actual frequency, I'm satisfied with MM just the way it is.

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As for not getting an email for the poll, well, we play on the US servers.  I doubt any of the surveys were sent to players on the US servers.

I got the poll.  At the time, I didn't pay a lot of attention to it as it was very badly written.  But now that I think about it, its possible I got it from my EU/RU/etc forum alt accounts.

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Why again only tier 10s as ranked games? You did not actually ever give any reason.

 

Because balancing hundreds of vehicles in five very distinct classes across ten different tiers and a dozen maps is not possible. Balancing them out and at the same time keeping the majority of them unique, interesting, and even mildly resemblant to their historical self is... unfathomable.

Compare WoT with the League. LoL has just one symmetrical map with only 120 completely made up champions and they still can't balance even 1/5 of them. Riot is limited only by their own imagination, and still only 15 or 16 percent LoL champions are truly competitive, and only so because gamers have the possibility to ban 6 broken champs in every single game. If Serb balances only a single tier I bet they'll finally introduce a Belarusian ruble coin and put his face on it. If he wants to try doing it than tier 10 is the obvious choice, since there is already an important game mode using those tanks, and it, by far, has the most tanks that can be balanced.

 

There is no way to make this game suitable for a serious "ranked solo queue" mode without reducing the number of viable tanks to just a handful, halving the number of players per team and using only a limited map rotation. And nobody wants to wait 15 minutes for a 7 IS-3 vs 7 IS-3 Himmelsdorf game with random people.

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Personally as a skreb, working on being a superskreb, I think they should leave MM basically alone and give incentives to baddies who get better (and punish seal clubbers).

 

I don't have time for anything like a comprehensive list of suggestions but just a few off the top of my head to help gamify their fucking game.

 

Kill a unicum and win your game: get 5 seconds of triggered immunity in your next game (all armor X 10,000%) ( :D ) j/k Unica, but something similar, shiny, loud etc. when you Do The Right Thing .

 

Bounce a shot in a well angled heavy tank: something shiny happens.

 

Point straight at an enemy and get penned: something shiny but negative happens.

 

Finish a session with a w/r higher than your overall: something shiny happens.

 

Finish below your overall: something bad happens.

 

Basically show people when they're doing it right and give them a reason to want to do it right.

 

Show people when they're doing it wrong and "punish" them for doing it wrong.

 

As it stands there really isn't much incentive to learn in the game. As has been said 10,000 times you can fail your way to the top. The problem is that people a) don't realize or care that they're failing and b) don't realize that once you get to the top... it's more of the same thing only much slower and more strategical.

 

There should be something in the game that glaringly obviously says to players "You suck" or "You're getting better" or "You're awesome".

 

Anything people can collect, brag about and show off on facebook, gives them power-ups.

 

That kind of shit.

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Anything people can collect, brag about and show off on facebook, gives them power-ups.

 

Isn't that essentially what 9.3 did with all those easy achievements? You would want more of those!?

 

A special award for killing top 5% players could be interesting, but an award for bouncing a hit with a heavy? Really?? Load up your E75's & ST-I's and initiate award showering!

 

Somewhat related, this was on the WoT subreddit a few days ago :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=f1rukpuidss#t=10

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Hang on hang on. WG already promised us skill based MM for team battles. It's nice that WG is interested, unfortunately for them I don't have the faith that they will be able to pull it off.

 

as far as the whole concept in general, doesn't matter, I could care less. Will it prompt some individuals to play better? yes. Will unicums still be best players? yes. So, in the end, whatever WG, I'll watch them try to do their best in stepping in the same shit again.

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Isn't that essentially what 9.3 did with all those easy achievements? You would want more of those!?

 

A special award for killing top 5% players could be interesting, but an award for bouncing a hit with a heavy? Really?? Load up your E75's & ST-I's and initiate award showering!

 

Somewhat related, this was on the WoT subreddit a few days ago :

Doesn't have to be a medal. Could just be a pop up in game. Something like "stronk angling, comrade" "try aiming for weak spots" "good shot"

Shit like that.

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