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xWulffx

Spotting and artillery

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As bad as arty sucks and despite Garbad's best efforts, I don't think WG is going to budge on that one.

 

I was musing about the game earlier and a thought occured to me.  If a scout spots an enemy tank and it's not within your maximum view range, it would require radio communication to transmit the information which takes time.  In the game as it stands this is instantaneous. 

 

Why not create a lag in time say 5 seconds before the tank appears on the mini map in the case of arty and tanks too far out to see personally.  At least then you might have a chance at evading the sattelite nuking from orbit.

 

Plus it actually make radios useful and serve a purpose somewhat.

 

 

Yea/Nay?

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Creating further barriers to damage for arty by reducing their ability to find targets would make sense if arty were topping the damage tables, but that doesn't seem to be the norm (is it in the higher tiers?).

 

I kind of like the idea of rewarding more situational awareness. My idea would be to make the sound of artillery firing audible from a far greater range and their tracer fire clearly visible through the entire shell travel distance. Maybe even slow the shell travel time to something painfully slow, but buff accuracy to compensate. Counterbattery tactics would be a necessary skill to learn early, as would making sure you're safe from breakthroughs by enemy lights. It would really reinforce the idea of firing, repositioning, and looking for areas where you will be attacking from an unexpected avenue. You'd also have to rely much more on allies tracking opponents (or predicting your opponent's evasive maneuvers), because most tankers without a damaged engine would be able to avoid a direct hit if they recognised the sound, spotted the tracer fire coming towards their position, and moved out the way.

 

But those are some pretty drastic changes and I wouldn't know if they'd really work out how I think.

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Really? Counter battery seems like a fantastic tactical layer for a tank type that doesn't seem to have an awful amount of depth.

Also a little ironic for arty players to complain about being killed because they stayed in the one spot too long.

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It is still possible to counter battery except it is harder now due to faded tracers.

 

yep.  it's almost always a waste of my time unless the map only has few viable arty spots, reducing the areas I have to watch.

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There were arty tracers and they were removed several patches ago due to crying about counter battery

It has nothing to do with crying about counter battery. With the original tracers there were mods that would extend the life, brightness, and duration of tracers for a very long time (minutes).

This made it trivial for arty to see exactly what bush a tank was firing out of even if nothing was happening when they were looking at the bush, and drop a round. This was easily as big of a problem for sniping TDs as it was for arty, and was completely broken.

With the changes you see the tracers briefly if you are looking when the tank fires, but I believe they changed how the tracers work so those mods don't work any more.

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Back on topic ... would my original proposal work.

I think its not only realistic, it gives tanks a chance.  If you have Sixth Sense ... which if true per another thread ... and you get spotted and don't move within 5 seconds ... you deserve to get splatted cuz your too dumb to breath

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There were arty tracers and they were removed several patches ago due to crying about counter battery

 

Shows how much you people know. The tracers are there. Counter-battery by tracer tracing is possible in arty view.

 

As for the thread-topic: No. Go play arty for a meaningful amount of matches and then tell me that a 5 second transmission delay on spotted targets wouldn't completely ruin your chances to hit anything at all whatsoever, as the target will vanish right when you saw it first. You people that want to nerf artillery and never even played any meaningful amount of games on them, but just play TDs, shouldn't even have the right to say anything about artillery balance. It's always the fucking same with you people, as your goal is not a balanced artillery, but a completely unplayable artillery that can't see anything, can't hit anything and can't move anywhere and even if you'd reach that goal, you'd still complain about it.

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 your goal is not a balanced artillery, but a completely unplayable artillery that can't see anything, can't hit anything and can't move anywhere

 

Exactly could't have said it better myself!

 

God mode orbital nuking is ok then?

 

BTW a 5 second delay is a generous allowance irl radio transmissions would take much longer.

 

And yes there is a faint tracer now but nowhere close to what is was before.

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My idea would be to make the sound of artillery firing audible from a far greater range

Already somewhat doable with audio mods. Gnomefather's gun sounds makes incoming arty shells very loud (or was it another gun sounds pack?) and in a fast enough tank you can actually try to dodge the shell.

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A) Exactly could't have said it better myself!

 

B) God mode orbital nuking is ok then?

 

C) BTW a 5 second delay is a generous allowance irl radio transmissions would take much longer.

 

D) And yes there is a faint tracer now but nowhere close to what is was before.

 

A) If you have no interest in balancing artillery instead of finding a niche for it and balancing it accordingly, you may just as well stop posting now. We already have Garbad for that niche in this forum and you are just a bad copycat.

 

B) Only a Sith deals in absolutes. I'm not ok with pre-nerf arty, I'm not ok with post-nerf arty and I am especially not ok with people throwing in their "brilliant" ideas about arty "balancing", in particular if they spent half their playing time in TDs.

 

C) I'm playing a game where none of the tanks have a crew, can't see an open target on a wide open and flat field, can be invisible from 51m onwards with just a bush between me and them while firing. This game also features tanks like the FV215b 120, WTE-100 and VK7201, just to name those tanks that never even existed in blueprints or at least in some Nutzi's wet dreams. In this game, hitting your tank with a HESH shell does about as much damage to your vehicle as getting hit by a normal HE shell and tanks have hitpoints. It's a game that decided to limit it's realism to increase playability, so take your "realism" and put it to where the sun doesn't shine, especially if you want to apply your "realism" to only one type of tank in the game instead of all who would suffer from the same issues in reality.

 

D) Your argument was false. Admit defeat and don't argue about single grains of salt when you ordered a handful.

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This is a really dumb way to fix artillery. The problem with artillery is high alpha, and your suggestion does not reduce artillery alpha.

It's funny how some of the most hated artillery in the game is low alpha artillery though.

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A) If you have no interest in balancing artillery instead of finding a niche for it and balancing it accordingly, you may just as well stop posting now. We already have Garbad for that niche in this forum and you are just a bad copycat.

 

B) Only a Sith deals in absolutes. I'm not ok with pre-nerf arty, I'm not ok with post-nerf arty and I am especially not ok with people throwing in their "brilliant" ideas about arty "balancing", in particular if they spent half their playing time in TDs.

 

C) I'm playing a game where none of the tanks have a crew, can't see an open target on a wide open and flat field, can be invisible from 51m onwards with just a bush between me and them while firing. This game also features tanks like the FV215b 120, WTE-100 and VK7201, just to name those tanks that never even existed in blueprints or at least in some Nutzi's wet dreams. In this game, hitting your tank with a HESH shell does about as much damage to your vehicle as getting hit by a normal HE shell and tanks have hitpoints. It's a game that decided to limit it's realism to increase playability, so take your "realism" and put it to where the sun doesn't shine, especially if you want to apply your "realism" to only one type of tank in the game instead of all who would suffer from the same issues in reality.

 

D) Your argument was false. Admit defeat and don't argue about single grains of salt when you ordered a handful.

 

A) I want it gone, but thats unlikely to happen.  I will be ecstatic with it being nerfed to unplayability, because its garbage. PS not trying to copy/imitate/worship Garbad.  Not in his fan club, but seems you are obviously butt sore form the whole debacle and a but touchy about it.

 

B) + C) Very few tanks with the exception of most arty can one shot tanks at tier, especially the upper tier ones. Keep clinging to your arty and praying to the RNG Jesus arty worshippers live or die by, because face reality arty has little to do with skill other than a slight knack for timing.

Any game has to have some aspect of reality, but as this is an arcade style game concessions must be made.  Clinging to arty like some redneck in the backwater of Appalachia clutches his/her Bible and guns certainly justifies your obtuse attitude.

 

D) I admitted I was wrong about the tracers get over it, next?

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It's different with the FV304, since it is (was?) overpowered.

He may be referring to the B.C 25t 155mm 58, which has a 155mm cannon at tier 10, but a four shell autoloader. This thing is nasty.

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There were arty tracers and they were removed several patches ago due to crying about counter battery

Uh change "patches" to "years." They were removed summer 2012 IIRC because hack-type (banned) mods could permanently render the tracer making CB foolproof. It worked with direct fire tracers, too.

As the game stands being server calculated, I'm not sure what the ideal implementation of improved tracers is, but their absence has definitely hurt, IMO.

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What was the game actually like with foolproof counter battery? I guess it's probably hard to say because only those using banned mods against others using banned mods would know, but in my mind it makes sense from a gameplay perspective. Arty currently has a lot of motivation to camp. Most of them have sufficient range, aim times are horrendous if you traverse the slightest bit, so once you're set up in a position the incentive is to stay still and be patient until you've got a solid chance to hit something. Sure, after you've fired it's worth repositioning, but sometimes you're already in a nice enough location with a number of targets that are staying put due to being in an engagement, and you want your aim to be ready when you're reloaded, so if you're moving at all it's only a few feet.

 

And everyone else's problem with arty seems to be that they might not even be aware that they are being zeroed in on, and suddenly their tank is one shot, or gets a ton of crew/module damage.  

Hence why I can't get it out of my head that better accuracy combined with slower shell travel times and a telegraphing mechanism like visible tracers would make the arty player more mobile as a "hit and run" player looking for different angles of attack, and reward some awareness on the victim's part.

 

If counter battery is a problem, you could leave the tracers out and just telegraph the target area with a big red circle indicating "whatever's here is doomed in about 5 seconds". That serves the purpose of flushing out/punish campers, and makes arty a very visible ally to tankers in the engagement as well. Give them assist damage against enemies who have been in their fire circle for 5-8 seconds - it's like tossing a grenade into somebody's cover.

 

I don't know if these are new ideas or not, but I think simple removing arty from the game is cutting off one's nose to spite one's face

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Actually implementing this would have to apply to everyone.  If you don't physically spot them, they don't appear for 5 seconds to account for the radio transmission.  Only the actual spotter(s) would see them immediately and be able to target and shoot at for the 1st 5 seconds. 

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But that would hurt scouts - spotting enemies and relaying their position (without firing and giving themselves away) is their bread and butter.

Applying this rule to everyone sounds like realism for the sake of realism - what's the gameplay advantage (outside of reducing the opportunity for arty to rain down on you the moment you're lit up)?

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I think arty should be removed as an individual playable class and link it as an attachment to scouts (warthunder like but scouts only). Adding artillery should bump up your MM tier spread. So a tier 8 scout with arty attached becomes a tier 10 tank. This would require reworking some things but making artillery more skill based should require the player to actually drive around and point their tank directly at the enemy. Playing arty is just too easy, it is whackamole where everyone who isnt arty gets to be the moles.

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