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Third nation of warships will be.....

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inb4 mighty Aurora sinks all the capitalist dogs, beginning with the USS Iowa. There will be no repeat of Tsushima, the pitiful Yamato with its 18-inch guns will falter and fail under Aurora's firepower in WoWS.

 

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Who cares? It says they're working on them in parallel, and if Warplanes is any indication (I think?) both trees will be in by the time the game is released.

On the other hand I'm looking forward to the potential forum shitstorm when the Bismarck is awful and/or tier 7.

German naval architecture lost a lot post-Treaty of Versailles, their ship designs are laughably inferior

Just based on logic (I haven't played warships), every high tier battleship has to be massively and ahistorically buffed to be competitive against late US things (also maybe some UK ships and post-refit Richelieu). Why is there any need to sperg about adding Soviet ships before German ships?

Fully expecting Russian ships to be as good if not slightly better than their American and Japanese counterparts. Because you know...russian bias game balance. Because we all know how Russian top tier tanks turned out...

Yes everyone knows that the real T-54 was useless compared to those giants of tank design like the Jagdtiger. :smallsmile:

 

I have no fucking idea how anyone is unironically upset at the possibility of Soviet ships being balanced.

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Who cares? It says they're working on them in parallel, and if Warplanes is any indication (I think?) both trees will be in by the time the game is released.

On the other hand I'm looking forward to the potential forum shitstorm when the Bismarck is awful and/or tier 7. German naval architecture lost a lot post-Treaty of Versailles, their ship designs are laughably inferior

 

Just based on logic (I haven't played warships), every high tier battleship has to be massively and ahistorically buffed to be competitive against late US things (also maybe some UK ships and post-refit Richelieu). Why is there any need to sperg about adding Soviet ships before German ships?

 

The problem with the Germans is that their high tier stuff is going to be paper ships (like the madness in the WTF line). In fact, since Battleships very quickly dropped out of favor following Taranto and Pearl Harbor and rarely fought each other it's going to be kind of hard to balance the high tiers.

 

The only major Battleship engagements that come to mind are the Bismark chase, the Battle of the North Cape and the Battle of Guadalcanal. That means you have a rough power comparison between four or five different classes of high tier ship for three of the four major combatants. How the Richelieu, Vanguard, Iowa, Yamato and Vittorio Veneto classes are going to be balanced is beyond me. That only gets more complicated when you throw in weird paper ships like the Sovietsky Soyuz or Lion.

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The problem with the Germans is that their high tier stuff is going to be paper ships (like the madness in the WTF line). In fact, since Battleships very quickly dropped out of favor following Taranto and Pearl Harbor and rarely fought each other it's going to be kind of hard to balance the high tiers.

 

The only major Battleship engagements that come to mind are the Bismark chase, the Battle of the North Cape and the Battle of Guadalcanal. That means you have a rough power comparison between four or five different classes of high tier ship for three of the four major combatants. How the Richelieu, Vanguard, Iowa, Yamato and Vittorio Veneto classes are going to be balanced is beyond me. That only gets more complicated when you throw in weird paper ships like the Sovietsky Soyuz or Lion.

 

testing.  lots and lots of testing.

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Actually, if they were going to do a naval game, they should have done it in the Age of Sail.

 

Broadsides and boarding parties...

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The problem with the Germans is that their high tier stuff is going to be paper ships (like the madness in the WTF line). In fact, since Battleships very quickly dropped out of favor following Taranto and Pearl Harbor and rarely fought each other it's going to be kind of hard to balance the high tiers.

 

The only major Battleship engagements that come to mind are the Bismark chase, the Battle of the North Cape and the Battle of Guadalcanal. That means you have a rough power comparison between four or five different classes of high tier ship for three of the four major combatants. How the Richelieu, Vanguard, Iowa, Yamato and Vittorio Veneto classes are going to be balanced is beyond me. That only gets more complicated when you throw in weird paper ships like the Sovietsky Soyuz or Lion.

 

Balancing will more than likely depend heavily on anti-air defense differences between nations. For example, a high tier Japanese or German battleship will probably have a slightly better main gun armament than their counterparts but their anti-air defense gun capabilities will be vastly inferior. Accuracy of each ships AA armament based on radar gun direction may also play a part seeing as the AA is controlled by AI and not the player.

 

Yamato-class battleship anti-air defense: 12 x 5 inch gun, 24 x  Type 96 25mm autocannon, 4 x 13.2mm AA MG

 

Montana-class battleship anti-air defense: 20 x 5 inch gun, 40 x 40mm Bofors autocannon, 56 x 20mm Oerlikon autocannon

 

(gun numbers may not be exact, but you get the general idea)

 

This leads to, as Tedster previously observed, lots of testing.

 

Not to mention insanely complex damage models possibly.

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Actually, if they were going to do a naval game, they should have done it in the Age of Sail.

 

Broadsides and boarding parties...

wanting to buy ships of the line.

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The problem with the Germans is that their high tier stuff is going to be paper ships (like the madness in the WTF line). In fact, since Battleships very quickly dropped out of favor following Taranto and Pearl Harbor and rarely fought each other it's going to be kind of hard to balance the high tiers.

 

The only major Battleship engagements that come to mind are the Bismark chase, the Battle of the North Cape and the Battle of Guadalcanal. That means you have a rough power comparison between four or five different classes of high tier ship for three of the four major combatants. How the Richelieu, Vanguard, Iowa, Yamato and Vittorio Veneto classes are going to be balanced is beyond me. That only gets more complicated when you throw in weird paper ships like the Sovietsky Soyuz or Lion.

Nobody will get away without paper ships - they confirmed the Montana class iirc, and Japan doesn't have anywhere near a full battleship tree without throwing in at least the ships that were converted to carriers. Germany is worse off than some, but really I can't imagine any 'real' tier 10s besides (nerfed worse than the IS-7) Iowa and (overbuffed) Yamato. Richelieu seems like an obvious tier 9, and I guess you could shoehorn in Vanguard and Vittorio Veneto there too.

 

Even the US tree has holes in it.

 

And seriously I have no idea how you make a USSR, German or Italian aircraft carrier line, especially not without wt100-level bullshitting.

 

 

fake edit:

oh lol wargaming decided Iowa was lower tier than Yamato

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What the hecklestump is this. The Russian navy was pretty much as developed as WWI relics, they never really had a good navy at the time. I sure hope the debs won't conjure up some magic OP flying vessel of raping, which will be ridiculously inaccurate..

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because actual ingame testing showed that Yamato > Iowa.  The T10 of the line is BB-65-2, basically an uparmored iowa with slightly less speed.

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Balancing will more than likely depend heavily on anti-air defense differences between nations. For example, a high tier Japanese or German battleship will probably have a slightly better main gun armament than their counterparts but their anti-air defense gun capabilities will be vastly inferior. Accuracy of each ships AA armament based on radar gun direction may also play a part seeing as the AA is controlled by AI and not the player.

 

Yamato-class battleship anti-air defense: 12 x 5 inch gun, 24 x  Type 96 25mm autocannon, 4 x 13.2mm AA MG

 

Montana-class battleship anti-air defense: 20 x 5 inch gun, 40 x 40mm Bofors autocannon, 56 x 20mm Oerlikon autocannon

 

(gun numbers may not be exact, but you get the general idea)

 

This leads to, as Tedster previously observed, lots of testing.

 

Not to mention insanely complex damage models possibly.

The Yamato class Battleship was able to elevate its main armament to more than 50° IIRC and they actually had an 18.1" anti-air grenade with a timer fuse specifically for defending against aircraft formations.

WIKI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamato-class_battleship

 

 

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamato-class_battleship

The main guns were also capable of firing 1,360 kg (3,000 lb) 3 Shiki tsûjôdan ("Common Type 3") anti-aircraft shells.[A 3] A time fuze was used to set how far away the shells would explode (although they were commonly set to go off 1,000 metres (1,100 yd) away). Upon detonation, each of these shells would release 900 incendiary-filled tubes in a 20° cone facing towards incoming aircraft; a bursting charge was then used to explode the shell itself so that more steel splinters were created, and then the tubes would ignite. The tubes would burn for five seconds at about 3,000 °C (5,430 °F) and would start a flame that was around 5 metres (16 ft) long.

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Yeah, and the follow-up :

Even though they comprised 40% of the total main ammunition load by 1944,%5B51%5D3 Shiki tsûjôdan were rarely used in combat against enemy aircraft due to the severe damage the firing of these shells inflicted on the barrels of the main guns;%5B54%5D indeed, one of the shells may have exploded early and disabled one of Musashi's guns during the Battle of the Sibuyan Sea.%5B51%5D The shells were intended to put up a barrage of flame that any aircraft attempting to attack would have to navigate through. However, U.S. pilots considered these shells to be more of a pyrotechnics display than a competent anti-aircraft weapon.%5B51%5D

Would still like to know how it looked like, though…
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Pirates of the burning pee did it first and probably better than WG ever could. God I loved that game (paging Garbad).

I played that, in a fleet with Garbad in fact.

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Yeah, and the follow-up :

Would still like to know how it looked like, though…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Shiki_(anti-aircraft_shell) bottom right are two grainy images of exploding shells taken at night I assume.

The Japanese had such a morbid fear of fire (which anyone living in paper houses would) I assume they thought the pretty sparkles would scare off anyone including Murican pilots.

Thankfully Murican pilots are made of the "right stuff".

What the hecklestump is this. The Russian navy was pretty much as developed as WWI relics, they never really had a good navy at the time. I sure hope the debs won't conjure up some magic OP flying vessel of raping, which will be ridiculously inaccurate..

They did have a ship that flew!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lun-class_ekranoplan which had the NATO designation "Duck". I assume Lun is RUSpeak for "Loon".

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because actual ingame testing showed that Yamato > Iowa.  The T10 of the line is BB-65-2, basically an uparmored iowa with slightly less speed.

That was my point - the real Yamato was so far inferior to the real Iowa that putting Yamato at tier 10 and Iowa at tier 9 is, for all intents and purposes, as big a departure from history as adding the Soviet Navy before the Royal Navy.

That said, it's probably impossible to design a balanced and historically accurate WWII battleship game that includes Iowa. Even at tier 10, balancing the Iowa-class versus Axis ships would have to involve nerfing it (compared to the real thing) worse than the IS-7. But even without fully representing its advantages in fire control Iowa is more than a match for Yamato - why throw in an on-paper improvement when Iowa is already more than strong enough for tier 10?

There aren't really enough realistic H-class battleships to put Bismarck below tier 8, and I can't see Richelieu or South Dakota (especially South Dakota) being the same tier as Iowa. From a historical perspective putting Richelieu and South Dakota at the same tier as Bismarck is laughable.

 

The Yamato class Battleship was able to elevate its main armament to more than 50° IIRC and they actually had an 18.1" anti-air grenade with a timer fuse specifically for defending against aircraft formations.

WIKI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamato-class_battleship

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proximity_fuze#VT

More or less every Allied (not Soviet) ship is using these on AA-capable guns, and unlike Axis ships (German more so than Japanese) the secondary batteries on Allied ships are all dual-purpose guns, instead of having a mix of low-angle and high-angle secondary guns. It's not even close.

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True but I suspect the current folks are interested in naval warfare in general ... not red ship fantatics/casuals that this game needs to be a huge hit.

 

Well Canada had a decent navy... but for the most part it was escort corvettes for the Atlantic convoys. Now there was that semi-secret project where they were looking at packing an iceberg with sawdust to make it a mobile airfield. That would make for a 'fun' tier 10 carrier.

 

The Pykrete carrier would be a day 1 purchase for me.

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The Russians were battling the Japanese back in the early 1900s and is fairly significant... the battle of Tsushima Straits 1905 for example ... ie the Russian Navy is kinda significant.

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The Russians were battling the Japanese back in the early 1900s and is failry significant... the battle of Tsushima Straits 1905 for example ... ie the Russian Navy is kinda significant.

In a purely historical context no, the Russian and later the Soviet Navy never played a significant role in any significant battle theatre other than this one battle and it was a one of the most one sided battles in naval history.

Other than this you will be hard pressed to find -anything- significant about the Soviet Navy in the period of history that WoWs claims to cover.

 

There is absolutely no justification for putting the Soviet Navy line in before any others. It is a sop to the Russian torch and pitchfork crowd by a Ukrainian company cloaked as a "business decision".

Having learned my lesson with World of Tonks and World of Warplanks I am not going down that road with World of Warshits.

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You guys are all wrong, the Russian's had great WWII ships, I mean look at this candidate for tier 10...

 

etmdMPJ.png   :serb: 

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Well, the upshot of this is that when they decide to implement the Italian line, they'll have done a lot of their own work already, because all of the Soviet Navy's modern ships during WWII were of Italian design and construction...

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