Ready set go ... but where with your Light tanks?

[KrVa46 73]

Hi,

 

I'm not a great light tank driver, but I think it is time I started driving these tanks more to optimize my map knowledge.  Because at the moment I know it is seriously lacking.

In order to get a little more structured feedback I've decided to take some print screens of the minimaps (just taken off the internet, don't look at the quality) and indicated where I go in my lights when the counter hits 0.

 

The lines indicate only the initial locations where I go to, and depending on the deployment of the enemies I relocate or not.  To keep it simple, I only indicate where I go, not where I want to spot or what I would like to do (active/passive).  I also assume that the team setups allow me to go there in the first place, so it is not taken into account in these print screens.  I'm assuming I'm a tier 6-7-8 scout in a high tier battle.

 

Now I know that on plenty of maps I go to the wrong initial location, severely limiting my role in the game, just because I started of wrong in the first place.  I get trapped or killed and so can't do much for my team.

 

Could you guys go over the print screens and give me some pointers?  Things I do wrong?  Better locations to go to?

If possible, could you do it in a format:

Map

Go to ...
your position wrong because of ...

 

Anyway, I hope we can have a collection here map locations for light tanks which can consolidate a lot of information from all the great players here.

 

Abbey: (not sure)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/Abbey_zpsd661a095.jpg.html?sort=4&o=10

 

Airfield: (not sure from East spawn)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/Airfield_zpsa363f771.jpg.html?sort=4&o=12

 

Arctic Region: (pretty sure)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/ArticRegion_zps663efe9c.jpg.html?sort=4&o=21

 

Cliff: (pretty sure)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/Cliff_zps1b2e4995.jpg.html?sort=4&o=26

 

El Halluf: (pretty sure)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/ElHalluf_zpsa949ed6a.jpg.html?sort=4&o=23

 

Ensk: (pretty sure)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/Ensk_zps5f1f2a6c.jpg.html?sort=4&o=24

 

Erlenberg: (no probs)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/Erlenberg_zps4a0628f9.jpg.html?sort=4&o=27

 

Fisherman's Bay: (pretty sure)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/FishermansBay_zps4998a6aa.jpg.html?sort=4&o=20

 

Fjords: (no probs)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/Fjords_zpsbec30165.jpg.html?sort=4&o=22

 

Hidden Village: (no probs)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/HiddenVillage_zps043dcd2e.jpg.html?sort=4&o=35

 

Highway: (pretty sure)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/Highway_zps7d44aaf1.jpg.html?sort=4&o=29

 

Himmelsdorf: (no clue)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/Himmelsdorf_zps4632892a.jpg.html?sort=4&o=36

 

Karelia: (completely lost)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/Karelia_zps9a51b8f7.jpg.html?sort=4&o=28

 

Kharkov: (no clue)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/Kharkov_zpsebeaa0fc.jpg.html?sort=4&o=37

 

Komarin: (no clue)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/Komarin_zps9b2f635b.jpg.html?sort=4&o=34

 

Lakeville: (no probs)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/Lakeville_zpsd96a1fd8.jpg.html?sort=4&o=33

 

Live Oaks: (not sure from North spawn)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/LiveOaks_zps09fa8f44.jpg.html?sort=4&o=31

 

Malinovka: (no clue)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/Malinovka_zps10e6b31c.jpg.html?sort=4&o=30

 

Mines: (no probs)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/Mines_zpsb95b16c3.jpg.html?sort=4&o=32

 

Mountain Pass: (not sure from South spawn)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/MountainPass_zps131e2dac.jpg.html?sort=4&o=19

 

Murovanka: (no clue)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/Murovanka_zps313cce73.jpg.html?sort=4&o=18

 

NorthWest: (pretty sure)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/NorthWest_zpsa96e0505.jpg.html?sort=4&o=7

 

Prokhorovka: (active scouting - no probs here)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/Prokhorovka_zpsec59a065.jpg.html?sort=4&o=4

 

Redshire: (pretty sure)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/Redshire_zpsbf279c89.jpg.html?sort=4&o=5

 

Ruinberg: (no probs here)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/Ruinberg_zpsc719c0cf.jpg.html?sort=4&o=6

 

Sacred Valley: (no clue)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/SacredValley_zps6d46adcb.jpg.html?sort=4&o=3

 

Sand River: (pretty sure)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/SandRiver_zps0646e839.jpg.html?sort=4&o=0

 

Serene Coast: (no clue)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/SereneCoast_zpsac9100eb.jpg.html?sort=4&o=1

 

Severogorsk: (no clue)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/Severogorsk_zpsf0f799ea.jpg.html?sort=4&o=8

 

Siegfriend Line: (no clue)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/Siegfriedline_zps0e42ee94.jpg.html?sort=4&o=2

 

South Coast: (not sure)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/SouthCoast_zpsc2b5d9fc.jpg.html?sort=4&o=9

 

Steppes: (not sure)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/Steppes_zps22415416.jpg.html?sort=4&o=15

 

Swamp: (not sure from North spawn)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/Swamp_zps8dcca14e.jpg.html?sort=4&o=17

 

Tundra: (pretty sure)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/Tundra_zps00a9d4a5.jpg.html?sort=4&o=16

 

Westfield: (pretty sure)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/Westfield_zps4abc928f.jpg.html?sort=4&o=14

 

Widepark: (no probs here)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/Widepark_zps9a2457f6.jpg.html?sort=4&o=13

 

Windstorm: (no clue)

http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/Kristof_Vanweert/media/Windstorm_zps1f89c719.jpg.html?sort=4&o=11

 

Thanks for any/all feedback.

[s!Gm4 77]

Not to be the forum police here, but didnt you already have a topic on this, asking nearly the same questions?

Why not reuse / edit this one instead of opening a new one?

[KrVa46 73]

Yep. But it was kinda side tracked, no?

Anyways, I think this format will make collecting info much more visible for everyone.

[Gharirey 992]

Good scoutplay isn't about knowing one good bush and going there every single game.

 

That said, some of your proposed positions are good, others situational and some are even bad. But you put up to many maps to go through every single one. I will just pick out one: Abbey.

 

Going abbey is a solid choice in a scout but it only makes sense under two conditions:

1. Your team has an advantage in fast tanks that gives you a good chance of winning a brawl there without dying. If your team is at a disadvantage, you need to have another option.
2. When you are on the move towards the abbey, you need to double-check that the other fast tanks actually follow you before you commit. Otherwise you need to limit your play for the abbey to a quick peak (and hope your TDs/arty don't sleep).

Other remarks:

• From the North it can be smarter to enter the abbey via the backdoor. You might gain a crossfire provided some teammate(s) push the traditional way. Also if you just stay in the doorway rather than fully entering, you can retreat which makes an abbey play viable even if you don't have a superiority in fast tanks to back you up.
• On the other hand retreating through the backdoor when you entered through the main road can be tricky since the opening is very thin. Many tanks have to wiggle a bit to get through at all. They are thus likely to take several hits or even die before they can escape.

Alternative positions:

• From the south the 8 line offers some spotting opportunities. You can climb on the little hill at G8 or just sit on the road and spot towards C/D8.
• From both sides you could go into the 2 line and snipe the abbey from the openings there. But it is very hard to stay invisible and the retreat can be tricky if your teammates don't push the 2 line.
• One can stay amongst the house below the abbey. But the position only really becomes viable if your teammates either control the abbey and/or the 2 line. 
• If you really feel daring you can rush to D7 from the south (via the 8 line), climb the slope and spot the enemy basecampers.
• F7 is a popular and important spot in CW but I don't see the gain in using it in randoms except for the late game.

[KrVa46 73]

Interesting.  Didn't know that 8 line was so powerful for scouting.

 

I understand that much depends on the MM where you can go.

 

But perhaps you can indicate which initial scouting runs are completely wrong to begin with?  In no matter which team setup.

Without going much into the details.

 

Thx,

[Pocktio 730]

Generally speaking I evaluate my initial positioning based on team composition. You will learn the 'spots' as you play more battles, but ultimately it's not about knowing the spots but when to use those spots.

 

Gonna throw some of my own-brand tips at ya:

 

Every map has nice little forward positions for either a) Early hit or b) Spotting. The only difference between the two is you don't want to fire your gun when spotting. Just light. This tactic works best on maps where the enemy can do different places. The new corridor meta means some maps are downright anti-scout as early lights are worthless, you know the enemy will be massing in specific spots. In these maps early hits are far more important and you should go for positions that let you comfortably do this.

 

The second decision comes down to team composition as well as map choice. I may be able to take the hill on Karelia with my tier 8 LT, but the enemy has Batchats and Leos; meaning I will likely die without support. Equally if the enemy has a high proportion of their own lights do not attempt to reach forward positions. They are so well known the vast majority of pubbies will mindlessly go there and either die quickly while crippling your tank, or actually kill you. I have found the best way to counter LT heavy teams as a LT is to find a position covering these spots and aiming for where they will crest for a) Early Hits

 

Be very aware of your battle tier also. I tend to play a more traditional 'scout' role when facing lower tiers, and transition into pure combat light when it is higher tiers (BT11 especially) as tier 10 mediums can and will outspot you while hitting you in the process. Conserve your HP and pounce on them when possible. If my tier 8 LT gets a tier 9 game I will comfortably be able to outspot most tanks, especially those poor tier 7s. On nom nom KV-3s so tasty!

 

Anyways general tips aside, be wary of the following maps as imo they are 'anti-scout' insofar as you don't want to try proper scouting

Ruinberg

Himmelsdorf

Kharkov

Airfield

Sevorogorksy whatever it's called

Windstorm

Sacred Valley

Pearl River

Mines

 

Going off the top of my head, these maps don't offer much in the visionplay range. They have defined corridors which somewhat invalidate attempts to play the classic scout role. You can however be a combat light, but frankly these are the maps I regret not bringing a medium to

 

Maps you will rub your hands together in glee when you get:

Redshire

Prok/Fiery Salient

Campinovka

Kormarin (I can't recall where but there's a small ridge which is BOSSMODE for scoutplay)

El Halluf (half and half, if you go valley can be ok)

 

So it's a lil skewed. Get the basics of LT play down and combine them with the specific map spots players will undoutebly give you here. Ultimately thought it's less rote memory as being aware of the best places to be due to team comp.

[s!Gm4 77]

Okay, lets get this on.

All things written are only my personal opinion. Ther may be ways to do things better, but as of now, I do decently this way.

 

-edit: dang: I just noticed theres no I-line, but instead maps jump from H to J, skipping I.

 

Abbey:

Avoid middle, as too many ppl are trying to conquer the center and you will be vanquished rather quickly. 8-line spot tells you very much.

If there are tanks, you can estimate what will be going on in the middle and the other flank; retreat and evaluate the situation.

If there are no tanks, you can either hop up to the buildings (middle of 7 line) and spot their base for defenders or try to sneak in through the norhtern end of 8 line.

 

Airfield:

West spawn looks okay, east spawn has an identical position in B8. If you shoot, be very careful, as these positions are known and often aimed at.

Center hill is okay too, but pretty open and risky due to many angles you have to take care of not getting hit.

 

Arctic Region

 Looks good. However: West span, eastern red route. Do NOT take the upper bushes, but instead take the lower ones. This will give you vision on the enemy hill, light enemy heavies making their way to the heavy area and you can spot part of the lower area (should be C5/6). This gives you a good idea how the enemy is set up.

 

Cliff:

I go for the hill, most of the time. When I stay on low ground however, I tend to use the lower bank of the 9 line to flank heavies in the 9 line in the back.

 

Hallouf:

There are bushes in the C3 / B4 area where you can hide behind, if you have enuff camo. This way, you will light the complete northern part. Spawning west, the bush will also light the eastern heavy approach to the north.

 

Erlenberg:

Spawning north, theres a bush between the houses in E4 which will, if you deploy there, light up the enemy approach to the castle ( J 3/4 ) and provide vision over the middle bridge. This will give you early intel about the enemy team's setup.

Spawning south, theres a bush in D8 providing vision over the A/B/C 7-0 area.

 

Highway:

Depends on the setup and the speed of your LT.  With 64km/h + you are good to go to J 8, spotting all the heavies crawling up the K line. Spotting positions down in the river or with the meds are usually to short-lived.

South spawn: D1 in the bushes, then I usually flex back, go up the H line and flank the enemy heavies in the city or go for the arty from the city route where they least expect a LT from.

 

Himmelsdorf:

Flex around. Hill's a death trap, since theres way more firepower up there than you can handle. Only go up if your team has the clear advantage.

 

Karelia: Bah!

Either make a run for the hill if your teams setup looks good and you have enough support or go in the north to find out what enemy tanks are not supporting the hill.

If you go north, have the minimap in mind: If you lose the hill, be sure to take no side shots! Dont give in to sniping from the north to the hill - the range is too long, most gund too inaccurate and the pen too low. Concentrate on your near surroundings.

 

Kharkov

Dont go to the round place. You are completely useless there - and trapped.

South spawn: On the road on H6 there are some bushes where you can set yourself up. You will spot all lemmings going south to the circle and thus neglecting the vital center fight.

Likewise, theres a bush for the north spawn. After this, flex and flank, this map is really made for quick maneuvers.

 

Kormarin:

Too bad you linked the old map. Theres a bush for spotting / sniping in the F3/4 area from south spawn. From north, use the rock / bush combo in D7 so see what enemy tanks venture east.

 

Live Oaks:

I discussed this in Jacq's LT thread. I suggest you head over there and soak up some more LT knowledge from it while looking for said posting.

 

Malinovka, aka Scout Heaven

South spawn: Either go to the swamp and occupy the bush in F5, lighting all the north spawn. Only do this if there is no competent scout on the other team and / or no sufficiently quick mediums which will catch and light you en route to your deployment. Or just go up the hill as quick as you can.

North: Either field, bushes in G3 , or you go to the hill with a quick detour over D5.

Basically, this map has two scenarios: Either you have no competent enemy scout, in which case you dominate the early spotting and can rout the enemy quickly. Or you have a good enemy scout and/or the north spawn, which makes life harder. You wont have much impact on the early fight, but you are absolutely essential for the mid to late game. Dont forget this! If you are the only scout on your team and you die, you basically lost your team the game!

 

Mines:

Hill only viable if you got enough support. Else you can set up passively. From north, this is the ditch in (lower) D4, from south G4. Apart from this, the 1 line is a blessing for LTs.

 

Mountain Pass:

Yes. Apart from this I cant emphasize enough that J2 is absolutely key to public games. Win this and you win map control and thus the game. If you can scout J2 early for your following support, this is a valuable information.

 

Prokhorovka:

Vision control map. Either go active on the ridge line or go passive in the 1-line bushes.

Bushes are essential if you got more than 2 artys on your team, as literally ALL the TDs hide in the 1/2 line and you can wreck them.

Key to this map: Only advance if the enemy scout was killed.

 

Serene Coast:

Dont go where the meds are bound. You are in the way, cant do much there and will become arty focus.

North: Theres a bush near the houses in D/E 5 providing vision over the whole heavy approach onto the 8/9 line. Beware of yolos coming through the mid, tho.

South:Bush in G6 wil provide vision of heavies going for 8/9 line through the water in D9, the whole city along the coast and partly into mid.

After this, flex and flank.

 

Severogorsk:

Nope. With an LT, thats just a death sentence.

There are hills on H4 / D6. Go up, spot there until you are spotted. You will light some tanks and get info on the enemy teams distribution. Take shots as needed. After this, flank through F3/4 or F8 as needed and possible.

 

Siegfried Line:

Depending on the setup, go for the field. With sufficient VR, you can outspot almost any other tank. Be sure to have support behind you, else you will get rekt pretty quick.

Be sure to familiarize yourself VERY well with the terrain and its possibilities here.

 

Swamp:

North: Yep.

South: Dont go into the swamp. Go south and light everything which attempts to cross the H9 bridge.

Going north is just suicide. This is another map where vision is key, and you gotta stay alive! Avoid G7 like the pest, especially if there are moron campers occupying the D/E 0 area.

 

Tundra:

Dont commit to the hill unless you got at least two other fast tanks with you, which can take the hill.

 

Westfield:

Looks good. This map is great for practicing vision games

 

-------------

 

If I notice you in one of my positions, you better make a run for it ;D

As already offered: If you want, we can toon up. Can show you one or two things, maybe. If I dont go full potato, that is.

[KrVa46 73]

WAW!!

 

Great information.  I'll definately be trying this out