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Cubetastrophe

So... Vision control?

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I have been browsing the forums and have seen a lot of posts lately in which better players refer to Vision, or Vision control. I have never really gotten into that aspect of gameplay, and honestly do not know what it consists of? Considering I have seen it mentioned so frequently, I have elected to explore its effects on the course of battle.

 

I realize there might already be a thread regarding this topic... but I couldn't really find one that addressed it in depth?

 

So anyways I implore thee users of the WotLabs forums, to enlighten me as to how this aspect of gameplay is significant? Because up until this point, I have not doubted my tank setups using BIA + Vent stacking, never once really considering switching to optics especially on my mediums. I feel like I perform well in my meds as an offensive power throughout a pub match (I'm thinking primarily my Obj. 140), and the added bonus of BIA + Vents has started to feel indispensible to my performance.

 

Please, do discuss! Or I suppose redirect me to the proper thread for this... thanks!

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If you can spot an area, your pubbies will shoot red things. Sometimes they'll even do damage.

If your opponents get spotted, they'll immediately reconsider their decision, and you'll effectively deny movement

If they still move, you'll know what tanks, and how many. Then you either receive or push where they are weak

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If you can spot an area, your pubbies will shoot red things. Sometimes they'll even do damage.

If your opponents get spotted, they'll immediately reconsider their decision, and you'll effectively deny movement

If they still move, you'll know what tanks, and how many. Then you either receive or push where they are weak

 

This. It's easiest to see on Fiery Prohkorovka. The team that has lights surfing the middle has a distinct advantage over those who don't, because they have vision control.

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Ah, I see. Seems... simple enough? I suppose it is the role of the medium to provide mobile vision as well as firepower on the battlefield. Like I said in my first post though is that I struggle to let go of that few miliseconds of reload time, or aim time, or agility in order to boost that one aspect of the tank that is view range. After all those posts I've read about Optics > Vents, I still don't see how trading offensive superiority for view range superiority can help in the heat of battle, or a brawl--many of the common scenarios in a pub match where you have to go in and get dirty to finish off a push. (This may be getting a little off topic).

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This. It's easiest to see on Fiery Prohkorovka. The team that has lights surfing the middle has a distinct advantage over those who don't, because they have vision control.

 

I'd say that it revolves much more around who can kick the other team off the hill first, as they can spot the rail road tracks and effectively deny that entire area. Surfing middle can work if you have tanks towards the middle along the 1-2 line, but that relies on pubbies winning the 1-2 line campfest and surviving...

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This. It's easiest to see on Fiery Prohkorovka. The team that has lights surfing the middle has a distinct advantage over those who don't, because they have vision control.

Also on that map it's crucial to have control of the hill as it is the highest terrain of the map and good for sniping.

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Vision control important for two reasons. Pubbies, as dumb as they may be, are at the end of the day just another tool in your toolbox. You often have to spot for them to shoot or shoot what they inevitably light on their path to self-destruction. The second is that early vision lets you see how the enemies are splitting their forces and that can and should influence how you approach the rest of the battle. This is why most of the higher level player base will run vision setups, because we don't trust the rest of the team to get that intel for us.

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Also on that map it's crucial to have control of the hill as it is the highest terrain of the map and good for sniping.

 

Actually, contesting it is enough as anyone trying to snipe without complete domination from hill will get reckt from railway, middle (alot of heavies there lately, and meds), and Arty. In general at least. IMHO, you always want to have half or two thirds the amount of tanks on hill  the enemy has. Middle is crucial, especially if turret armor/gun depression+mobility to avoid arty/waffles+<450 view range (the more the merrier).

 

IMHO

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Ah, I see. Seems... simple enough? I suppose it is the role of the medium to provide mobile vision as well as firepower on the battlefield. Like I said in my first post though is that I struggle to let go of that few miliseconds of reload time, or aim time, or agility in order to boost that one aspect of the tank that is view range. After all those posts I've read about Optics > Vents, I still don't see how trading offensive superiority for view range superiority can help in the heat of battle, or a brawl--many of the common scenarios in a pub match where you have to go in and get dirty to finish off a push. (This may be getting a little off topic).

 

View range and being able to out-spot your opponents increases your effective DPM, much more so than knocking off 2.5% from your reload. 

 

If people would understand effective DPM vs Gun DPM, there might be a meta shift 

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This is why most of the higher level player base will run vision setups, because we don't trust the rest of the team to get that intel for us.

 

Mmh.

 

View range and being able to out-spot your opponents increases your effective DPM, much more so than knocking off 2.5% from your reload. 

 

If people would understand effective DPM vs Gun DPM, there might be a meta shift 

 

Mmmmh.

 

Very interesting. I do indeed see what you guys are talking about now, because I have found myself in many a situation where I am stuck in a position without lights and there is nothing I can do about it myself, and I must rely on remaining pubbies to light--kind of the opposite of carrying. Very good points indeed.

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After all those posts I've read about Optics > Vents, I still don't see how trading offensive superiority for view range superiority can help in the heat of battle, or a brawl--many of the common scenarios in a pub match where you have to go in and get dirty to finish off a push. (This may be getting a little off topic).

The thing is, is that in late game (edit: well, any game stage I guess, but especially late game) (especially on flexing mediums) vision superiority translates directly to offensive superiority as you'll be able to out-spot your opponent and get in the first shot.

Edited by KnobbyHobbGoblin

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The thing is, is that in late game (especially on flexing mediums) vision superiority translates directly to offensive superiority as you'll be able to out-spot your opponent and get in the first shot.

 

Touche. Very well said, I will probably start switching out vents for optics on some of my meds... however reluctantly...

 

Though I think my playstyle and dependence on that small offensive edge is shown directly in my sub-par ~35% survival rate overall, whereas you talk about the view range being especially useful in late-game carrying. I suppose I just haven't often put myself in a position where that vision is necessary, either due to it just being clean-up, or I'm already dead! Haha.

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Since Jacky pretty much nailed it, for vision control to be successful it is best in light tanks, meds.  Some heavies but better meds.

 

Optics for the meds for constant movement, vents if you want and BIA all help.  As well as situational awareness and recon for the commander/radioman

 

Usually people forgo the vents on their meds for something like a verstab, and rammer.

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Also on that map it's crucial to have control of the hill as it is the highest terrain of the map and good for sniping.

 

There's a synergy between the hill and the middle. The hill is about sniping into the middle and lighting the people climbing or on the hill so that the people in the middle can shoot at them.

 

Similar situation wrt to the middle and the 1 line.

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Everything has been mostly covered by other, better than I players.

 

I would personally recommend dropping vents for optics on your mediums. I never really thought about view range, just like you, and now it's one of my most carefully monitored stats on my vehicles. A minimum of 460m for a tier 10 medium is where I'd start.

 

For comparison all my meds run Optics/Rammer/Vstab and run with food

4202 - 498m

STB - ~470m

E50m - ~480m

Leo 1 - ~ 490m

 

The difference is entirely worth the loss of 2.5% overall attributes, primarily because it's a noticeable buff. As I got better I realised how unreliable pubs are too, so the idea you want to be doing your own spotting is key to playing over the 2k mark.

 

I now find it quite difficult to play tanks which don't have exceptional vision control. It's just too comfortable to be able to outspot anything that moves and light things without being lit in return as most of my meds have solid camo values on top.

 

But yeah as has been said, optics are a much better offensive tool than vents as you thought previously. Medium speed and good vision enables those early game hits, which can influence a battle in your favour. Being able to land that hit before they can when you get closer is key in winning a fight. Lighting that guy so your team can dunk him first is key to winning a push. Lighting the entire enemy push on one flank before they get there is key to knowing whether you push the flank. Winning a flank & flexing is the current meta so works well with vision control.

 

Besides the gunnery buffs vents may give is so negligible, that if you were to miss a shot running optics you're never gonna sit there thinking 'If I had vents that totes would have penned/not missed etc'

 

Go for the overt benefit. Maximise your strengths.

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I totally agree on the positive effect of vision control for mediums in all kind of situations as described.

 

What about my blind russian heavies? The guns are not made for sniping. Even with optics and skills they have a disadvantage in view range. In general you should play/equip tour tanks to their strength.

 

Carbonward stated that he does not recommend optics below purple level due to the lack of necessary skill to abuse the vision system.

 

Please advice!

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You don't have to be purple to know how to abuse vision. Getting an early spot and one free shot in is worth like 300 wn8. Being able to shoot someone without being shot back at is the ideal way of doing damage, and vision is the easiest way of doing this consistently.

 

For heavies who primarily brawl with big, derpy guns, Rammer, GLD, Vstabs is the way to go. A few like the 215b can mount optics depending on preference.

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