How did i get spotted? T71- by wz 132 - replay provided

[suyoof 4]

Hello there

 

I had a match in prok where i got spotted somehow by a wz132 whilst driving t71.

 

I have full cammo crew and was stationary for a long time before he spotted me but the thing was, he done a initial scout run first and when i was in bushes safe for 30-40 seconds, he later mustve went for passive scouting.

 

Thing is, i have view range at 510 with binocs and i was sure i had a full silhouette in the bush but how did we both spot each other at the same time.

Ty,

 

replay is blow

 

Ty again (dont mind my gameplay and whilst your here and if you watch it, would appreciate a few tips )

 

http://www.wotreplays.org/replay/545153bc9c81a569be010000.html

[suyoof 4]

btw its near the start of the match..wish i could cut the replay to the part..but alas i am uselesss at this stuff

[dualmaster333 3,324]

What % is your crew's camo skill at?

 

It appears you were spotted at ~210 meters.  There is a direct line from the bush where the WZ-132 was and your bush.  Based on what I've seen for bush camo values, the one you were in should be 50%.  Combined with the 14.3% base for the T71, you should have had ~64% camo.  To be spotted from 210 meters would require a view range of 600 meters, which is not possible on the 132.

 

Most likely explanation I can think of is that the bush is not giving 50% camo.  For example if the bush was giving only 36% camo, the WZ would only need a view range of ~420 to spot you.

 

It'd be interesting to test that bush in a training room.

[suyoof 4]

What % is your crew's camo skill at?

 

It appears you were spotted at ~210 meters.  There is a direct line from the bush where the WZ-132 was and your bush.  Based on what I've seen for bush camo values, the one you were in should be 50%.  Combined with the 14.3% base for the T71, you should have had ~64% camo.  To be spotted from 210 meters would require a view range of 600 meters, which is not possible on the 132.

 

Most likely explanation I can think of is that the bush is not giving 50% camo.  For example if the bush was giving only 36% camo, the WZ would only need a view range of ~420 to spot you.

 

It'd be interesting to test that bush in a training room.

Wow ty for the information.

 

My cammo crew is 100% for 2 crew members and 75% for commander.

 

So like you were saying, im sure that he couldnt have spotted me like that as my view range shoulda out spotted him waaay before.

 

Also was my silhouette correct, as i tried to make sure to keep my entire tank in the bush.

 

Btw,how can you tell how much cammo the bushes are giving?

[OrkusMorkus 59]

 

Btw,how can you tell how much cammo the bushes are giving?

 

Unfortunately only through testing and summation. The map designers seem to arbitrarily assign different values to different bushes on each map. Through experience I can think of a few locations on certain maps where the bonus is lower than expected.

 

Best idea is to realise the limitation, remember it and try to work around it next time you're in that situation. Sorry didn't watch the replay so I'm just speaking generally. 

[Shinma 296]

without watching the replay (because that's effort, and I've done enough practicing on prok to know it fairly well. ) There's plenty of way this'll occur, and ways you can avoid such things (aside from don't passive spot)

 

I'm assuming you're on the 1 line, either north mid section spot, or south, ar h1~ with the tree + bush looking north. 

 

In the former scenario, most of the wz's run up 2/3 is not visionable, height is too low. When he crossed to hit the bowl, there's a few ways to do it so that you're double/triple bushed. towards the bowl end your tank might not have been covered from that LoS. You'd said you were fully in the bush (which is bad, be behind it.) But the fact remains that there's two lines of approach on either side where both of your LoS is effectively 4-5 bushes between each other, and that'll drop down the detection range to less than half (I think hardcap is .35) 

 

The thing you have to keep in mind about any camo is that it also reduces your own view range as it conceals you. Everything leafy that gives camo between your tank and theirs, even a tree midway, will be added to camo values when calculating spot checks. Moreover, spot check frequency is such that lights can reasonably cover 'spotted' ground before the right view port makes a spot check to light them up, at which point you may come into their spotting range. 

[dualmaster333 3,324]

If you watch the replay, he really shouldn't have been spotted.  While the WZ had direct LOS of his bush, he was clearly within the visual model of the bush (all the check points on his tank should have been blocked by the bush he was in).  Given the tank's base camo+camo crew skill, he should not have been spotted if the bush was even providing him with camo in the 25-30% range.  My best guess is that the actual vision check model of the bush does not line up with the physical model.  Thus, while visually he was fully concealed, I suspect he wasn't getting any camo bonus from the bush from the angle the WZ was at.

 

Not spotting the WZ right away makes sense, given that tank's camo factor and the bush cover he had.

[suyoof 4]

If you watch the replay, he really shouldn't have been spotted.  While the WZ had direct LOS of his bush, he was clearly within the visual model of the bush (all the check points on his tank should have been blocked by the bush he was in).  Given the tank's base camo+camo crew skill, he should not have been spotted if the bush was even providing him with camo in the 25-30% range.  My best guess is that the actual vision check model of the bush does not line up with the physical model.  Thus, while visually he was fully concealed, I suspect he wasn't getting any camo bonus from the bush from the angle the WZ was at.

 

Not spotting the WZ right away makes sense, given that tank's camo factor and the bush cover he had.

Ty to all posters.

 

I guess this would seem most appropriate as the post before mentioned i shouldnt be within the bush completely. I tried to hide entire tank within the bush so it would conceal from a bigger area of LOS , but yeah , next time i will try to be more carefull as i normally try to move up more in the 1 line to scout further up ahead but i knew this wz would do a run around the field , causing me to be spotted trying to advance to a bush further up.

 

Ty for the posts! much appreciated.

[Fastfission 11]

It does look like the bush is pretty sparse on the right side.  Later on, a couple of TDs show up at around H1 (a waffle and a JP E100).  They're further away, but is there a chance they could have spotted you?  It looks like your right track might be visible from around a 2:00 oclock orientation due to a bit of a gap down near ground level after you get to your final position (barrel is sticking completely past bush, but I believe you have to show the barrel base for that to break camo. 

 

Probably a long shot.

[Balue 6]

I believe that you did not really study your replay but looked at it under the assumption that the Wizzy hit you.   You were spotted and shotted by the TD in B1 - and quite lucky to be alive as it was one of two big hitters that were finally spotted towards the end.

FF your replay until your light bulb goes off and then go to 1/8 replay speed or lower and look at where the wizzy was compared to the angle indicator from where you were shot....

 

As you back away in the replay, left mouse click and turn around to the front of your tank to see the gaping hole in the lower LEFT side of your hull which is also proof that you were hit from your RIGHT .. not from the left where the wizzy was.....

 

Keep looking at the replay..... wait.... the wizzy actually had to get on the road top to try and take a shot at you which passes by (misses you) from LEFT to right.  The wizzy also takes a hit from the TD behind you because he thought you a juicy target.

 

Lastly, you took only one shot the entire game for 606 hit points -  The wizzy's best non critical shots are 320ish  

 

No Sir.. You were spotted - and shot by an enemy other than the wizzy.

 

PS --- That is a lousy bush to hang out in because of that very reason...