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TalonV

New View ranges come 9.5 good or bad?

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My RU251 and Leo 1 will reign supreme.

 

No more basecamping clickers ruining my day. I can comfortably camo snipe them and feast upon their whingetears in chat about 'bs invisitanks' while the rest of my team rolls in the pure irony of that sort of statement coming from a TD.

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I'm assuming premium LTs will also be getting buffed view ranges? Time to unretire my Type 62.

 

Nope  :serb:  :serb:  :serb:

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Platoons with a dedicated/personal scout will be a thing. 

 

And the gap between unicums and the rest is just going to widen. 

 

It used to be a thing.. I was that t-50-2 back in the day when it was actually useful even though you wouldn't get malinovka.

Well, to be honest I still am that scout but even I drive more MTs today.

And ever since i started playing WG has been making this game easier for the casuals to approach.

Take 6th sense.. Or look at map design. Premium ammo for credits.

Trust me it's not the other way around.

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I like playing scouts but this is the wrong way to make them viable.

 

Rock-paper-scissors is a great principle in theory. But applying it in an unfiltered way to WoT is bad. This is a teamgame where you can't rely on most of your teammates. Maps like Prokorovkha are already won by the team that has the better scouts/meds. But currently heavies and TDs have at least a chance to spot back. Change viewranges and battles on this map are over from the get go if your scouts are crap.

 

High tier meta would ressemble tier V/VI meta when it comes to viewranges: At mid tiers, some tanks can outspot everyone else and rape them from stealth. And trust me this is already possible on 90% of the maps. Currently high tiers are different because virtually every tank has at least a workable amount of viewrange. Outspotting an opponent is thus a lot harder to achieve.

 

Increasing the amount of invisible sniping is a horrible idea. Viewrange is the one area where rock-paper-scissors as a game-balancing principle should not be applied. In particular not in drastic manners. 

Viewrange and spotting are delicate systems. They demand for subtle differenciations between tanks (10-30m viewrange difference between the best and the worst spotters in a tier like we have it now at high tiers). If there are drastic differences, you break the system and get a frustrating gameplay with huge amounts of invisible sniping.

 

Rock-paper-scissors in WoT: I am not sure if WG realizes that it doesn't have a pure form of this principle in game. In fact, one class is defined to defy the principle by being allrounders. I am of course talking about mediums. What makes them stand out is that are solid in most areas. There is some rock in them since they often have a bit of workable armour. They have good speed, yet not scout-level greatness. They have firepower, yet not the alpha levels of heavies or TDs but make up with DPM.

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 But currently heavies and TDs have at least a chance to spot back. 

 

I agree with most of what you say but this above is garbage. Td's that are bush camping even after the "camo after firing nerf" will outspot a light that is looking for it and with the alpha potential of some of the Russian TD's that means a one shot insta death for that light. Meds can take a few shots at least but they get spotted by that camping td easier.

 

The problem has always been that TD's who aren't moving (which is nearly all of them) will see you before you see them and then drop a whole lot of pain on your ass. 

 

I do think they should remove the camo nerf and then nerf the view ranges though. A borsig sitting in the middle of a field and still being able to camo snipe is not as dangerous if it can't see you. If that borsig has good LT on his team then he will still rape like the old days and share the xp with that LT. This is exactly how nature intended it to be.

RIP meds.

 

Don't think so.. Not some meds like LEO and batchat. They will be immune from the view range nerf. They will actually benefit.

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The other day I was grinding my t54 and was thinking about the cancels days people told me about when I complained about arty. Someone even showed me a pic of a game consisting of only tier 10 arty...

Seeing as there is much less arty power game now, and since games 5 to 8 TDs, I was thinking maybe they would work on a way to lower TD player values...

I was right...

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I agree with most of what you say but this above is garbage. Td's that are bush camping even after the "camo after firing nerf" will outspot a light that is looking for it and with the alpha potential of some of the Russian TD's that means a one shot insta death for that light. Meds can take a few shots at least but they get spotted by that camping td easier.

 

The problem has always been that TD's who aren't moving (which is nearly all of them) will see you before you see them and then drop a whole lot of pain on your ass. 

 

I do think they should remove the camo nerf and then nerf the view ranges though. A borsig sitting in the middle of a field and still being able to camo snipe is not as dangerous if it can't see you. If that borsig has good LT on his team then he will still rape like the old days and share the xp with that LT. This is exactly how nature intended it to be.

Always lovely when the bobs think, they understand this game best ... and then find kind words ("garbage") to express their perceived insights.

 

But I will give you the benefit of the doubt and try to explain why you are wrong:

  1. The primary issue with bush-camping TDs is not viewrange but how powerful the camo bonus from bushes is. In order to spot a Rheinmetal camping in a bush, you will often have to get within 100m or less with your scouts. And guess what: even after the massive viewrange nerfs for the Rheinmetal, he will still spot you first.
  2. And that is not a bad thing. If scouts could light TDs hidden behind bushes with little effort and no risk, the gameplay would be broken. TDs are supposed to be weapons of area-denial. They make sure that people who choose stupid routes on the battlefield get blasted. TDs pay a high price for this: usually no turret, sometimes slow, sometimes bad armour, ... Again: the guy sitting in the bush is not supposed to be spotted first!
  3. A good scout can work around this challenge: he will choose routes that limit his exposure, he knows bushes that allow him to get safe spots, he might even bait the TD to take a low-chance shot which will remove the cover from his bush. Only because you might have no clue how to scout effectively does not mean the developpers have to dumb the game down to your levels.
  4. Removing the TD class bonus (retaining camo after firing) was a good step. Nerfing viewrange is the wrong step since nobody wants invisible sniping. The way it's supposed to work is this: TD doesn't shoot - TD has a high chance to remain hidden; TD shoots - TD has a high chance to get spotted. Broken gameplay would look like the following: Scout spots TD at 350m, rapes him from the same distance without the TD having any chance of spotting him back.
  5. The "if" in your text: "if a TD has good LT on his team, he will still rape". How many good teammates do you usually get? Very few. Anything that makes players utterly dependant on teammates is a bad thing. It is not fun to have no chance at winning because the teammates who are supposed to perform a crucial task (spotting) happen to be donkeys (or are called FlakTrack). There is a lot wrong with high-tier gameplay but all tanks having decent viewranges is not one of them.
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Actually it's a good idea to nerf view ranges but just a bit (mostly high tier TDs and tier X soviet medium tanks). I'm worrying that WG will screw this up if they don't reduce nerf values. C'mon, they have problem with small stuff like M53/M55 model. 

Yep, maps are a big issue too. 

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View range adjustments are good, but they need to have bushes work the way camo nets used to work; provide a boost to your tank's camo rating, rather than a flat bonus which allows tanks that have no business being hidden to stay invisible.

 

Would allow devs to fine tune which tanks should have what level of visibility, rather than designing maps to avoid invisisniping.  Would also address tanks firing without being spotted, as even if you're double bushed, a bonus to your firing camo value, which is near 0, would still be near 0

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Actually it's a good idea to nerf view ranges but just a bit (mostly high tier TDs and tier X soviet medium tanks).

 

Agree with this. I mean, I want more than "just" those tanks nerfed, but I'm hoping this nerf isn't too drastic. Like, 20m view nerfs for most tanks, not any more, 30-40m nerfs for TDs and SPGs. That would be perfect imho. I also wouldn't mind seeing some other things change like view range no longer scaling with tier and some problem tanks getting adjusted as a balancing measure. Make it so that all high tiers don't have the same view range anymore - give, say, the E-50M slightly more than average, 140 slightly less, that sorta thing.

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I was struggling with how cheeky I should be in this reply but I'll just keep it to a minimum. Basically, I think the current VR numbers mentioned are plain retarded, especially for TDs, and I hope they will remain as just a test. Yes, there should be a VR nerf on non-lights but given the size of the maps it should be limited to some 10-20m.

 

Imagine if you're a pubbie and your TD suddenly got a 100m VR nerf: Would you ever move your tank after you find out that you will get outspotted by every other vehicle in the game instantly? Even pubs know that bush = camo, so the camping TD meta will become extremely real and it might go so far that even good players will have to just sit and bino it up because they'll be worthless in the open in a Last Stand situation. Keep in mind that the pubbies can still render-snipe like today, they just won't be able to spot anything for themselves, which I suspect will increase camping immensely. If you think you ever heard "go scout" from a camping pubbie in today's WoT, just imagine how often it will come when there's a valid complaint behind it (he's actually blind without you).

 

Special tinfoil hat moment:

A VR nerf may also be an indirect arty buff, given the likelyhood of increased camping and how much a scout can dominate even top tier matches if these numbers hold up. I hope you like hard cover 'cause you'll never spot the guy spotting you if he sets up with binos.

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As tomego says, that's pretty bullshit. Every arty outspots almost every tank from a bush, except a select few absolutely enormous or completely blind tanks. Arty has way too much defensive capability, nothing is worse than having some guy be able to bombard you all game from the corner of the map... and then outspot and one-shot you when you finally reach him. I was happy when they reduced arty HP (T10 {then 8} arty surviving 750 damage hits ughh), but it doesn't really help when you absolutely can't spot the arty before he spots you.

 

Of course, it fucks over light tanks too - your poor MT-25 is never going to outspot the little M41 sitting behind cap, so by the time he lights he's already facing you. Boop! One shotted his direct counter at the range where his tank should be absolutely useless. It's like giving a T95 the ability to fire out of his ass when a medium pulls off a circle. Your arty should just be fucked, no questions asked.

 

Almost every tank outspots every other tank from behind a bush. This truism doesn't support your point at all and this truism also is the entire problem with scouting, not comparative view ranges (which is also why this overall nerf to everything is just plain stupid).

 

And arty being able to defend it self. Yeah. With RNG luck and once every 30 seconds or more. If you line up one by one and wait for the reload or aim in front of the artillery's gun, that is your problem, not the artillery's. Is this another "OMG nerf arty"-QQ? Leave it be, do something useful with your life.

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I'm sorry, but that just threw your entire credibility out the window with that last line. I have no problem arguing with an arty apologist, but the whole "LOL Y R U EVEN ARGUING, ARTY ISNT CHANGING, DO SOMETHING USEFUL WITH UR LIFE" thing is just childish.

 

Yes, almost every tank outspots every other tank from a bush. Which is why SPG should not have a tanks' view range - with 200m view range, you aren't going to be outspotting anyone. At best, you'll spot them around the same time as they'll spot you... which is much better than the status quo. "With RNG luck and once every 30 seconds"? What do you think I'm talking about, a team marching in one by one at the end of the game? No. Of course arty doesn't have much of a chance in a 2v1 encounter - thank god for that. But arty does have a really good chance in a 1v1 encounter against a weakened tank, which is horrible. Having your scout get nuked by arty, your remaining heavy get blasted from camo, or one of your only cappers bombed (slowing down cap speed) can absolutely influence a game in a way it should never be able to.

 

When you pick up an arty, you should be doing so under the impression that you cannot take on an actual tank once it reaches you. That's part of the payment for being able to spend the other 3/4s of the game firing at people who have absolutely no way to fight back.

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One of the most frustrating things in the current game is having a monster game but ending battered, less than 1k HP left.

You see there's only arty left.

Due to the bullshit camo and view ability you WILL die. Simply because they can reverse into shotgun mode where they will be able to fire first as they are spotted second. How is that fair? Anyone arguing that's fair is a fuckbad. Don't get me started on the RNG side. I've been one hit by Arty in such situations where they're still moving. An m55 crested a hill and was still bobbing up and down when he fired and one shot me before endgame. Fuck you for even trying to defend that.

Arty needs the worse view range ingame.

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You are literally the only reason we are talking about arty. If you thought you could just reply and then run away yelling that we're just QQing again instead of defending your own arguments, you came to the wrong place.

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i play a lot of lights and vision games in high tiers with tds and meds offer no advantage but speed, i think wg has invested a lot in the new lights and not enough people are playing thrm. I just saw quickbaby playing a t37 for the first time and negging the t49 because he is trying to snipe with it and didnt do enough damage.

 

For me i am more concerned witht the current vision mechanics (invisitank 75 meters from you in the clear) than i am with view range but a buff to lights will help them do their job better. The alternative is to expand the map sizes but i doubt they will do that.

 

Personally i would love to see a 2000 or 4000 sq meter map, then u really need good scouts!!

 

cross i love your avatar +++1

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Madner pls let the door hit you on the ass, very hard and deliberately, on the way out.

 

Some of the VR nerfs (ahem, T20?!) are asinine, while the others are in line for what I would expect

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