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  1. 1. Best t9 TD?

    • 704 - Russian Biased 2012 style
    • SU-54-122 - Best at looking badass
    • Waffle4 - If it were made a t10 it would still be the best sniper in tier. That's OP defined.
    • JT - I dunt care if its bad, I like to roleplay as a nazi.
    • T30 - armor + boom
    • T95 - let's be real the T95 is slow but overpowers anything and everything it sees
    • Toituse - I like turtles.
    • Foch - The most boxy tank in tier is always the best.


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So I was asked to do a challenge in the T30.  The sponsor just wanted me to play concurrently to him playing for his own interest, however I felt like playing.  I decided to play without gold mainly because the eurobads whine so hard about gold spam, and the tank doesn't need it.  However, I won't be poasting stats until the end.  I plan on poasting only interesting games as they happen and replays every 50 games.  I last played the T30 back in 2012, and didn't do particularly well in it.  Soft TDs are not really my thing, plus it requires a lot more campy, 2nd line support fire meat than I typically employ.

 

xkhqgQF.jpg

 

I debated long and hard about the gear.  I would really like to run food + vents, but the soft hull means frequent engine hits and with 20% chance of fire, I just couldn't risk it.  Otherwise is pretty typical.

 

Another thing many people don't know:

BbPPRXe.jpg

 

Unlike the T29/T34, the roof of the T30 has a better armored triangle on the forehead which prevents overmatch from virtually all guns (51mm).  This means the T30 is harder than its brothers, and this baits a lot of players into bad shots.

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Well, it does have *slightly* worse cheek armor, which allows guns from cent 1 to have a 50/50 chance of going through.

Or a 704 simply slamming through it.

8KvNoXH.png

or getting shot-trapped from the bottom of the gun mantlet into the hull...

Its not the kind that can merrily aim the entire time with just the turret poking out, since i've used the cheek "weak"spot against it many times in my E-50M.

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Loved that thing. One of my favorite tanks easily. That turret/gun depression and boom cannon lets you make monster damage in many situations. too bad didn't manage to reach 3kdmg on it. Only 2,869.

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704 master race, although i haven't really played mine since the TD nerf.

 

Its the highest average dmg (3,1k) and kills per battle (2.02 or something) tank i have.

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First replay:

http://wotreplays.com/site/1364003#self

 

500 Garbad Points to the first blue or lower who can answer these:

 

1.  I often say the way to win when your team lemmings is to support the lemming.  Why didn't I do that here (IE, what is different, why does it matter)?

2.  Evaluate my usage of hull down this fight -- gud, bad, kewelian?  And what points did I expose myself to risk unnecessarily?

3.  How in the fuck did that blue AT pen my turret?

4.  How right was the T37?

5.  What did I do well, and what could I have done better?

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1. Probably because there is not enough room on that hill for everyone to party together.

 

2.gud. didn't really over expose-except going face to face with the t95 but you were still hull down and smacked him for 700 while he bounced you anyway

 

3.He hit at just the right spot inside the  "A" triangle above the gun

 

4.I feel like any answer but "very right" is wrong....

 

5.carried well, carry harder

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T30 does just fine with no AFE. You should not be playing hull down that much due to arty and most things being able to pen the turret (unlike the T29). Sniping is fine with the sigma changes. Anything to buff gun handling to the point of semidecency and improve reload is best.

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1. Incredible hull down potential with that ledge west, as well as a lowe who they could also see as to give them the impression you had backup. You had many tanks that were fast and able to take the hill quickly against their composition and all points east were covered by other tanks. 

 

2. Good positioning at the start. When you peeked out against the t28 the first time it was like you didnt expect him to be there, and could have taken a shot if he had been a fraction of a second earlier. The t95 worked out perfectly, only exposed mantlet, he hit it straight on while you got a shot on the underside.

 

3. AT penned the tiny tiny triangle above your mantlet that is flat. If you have a gun that can be that accurate, it's a great place to shoot close quarters.

 

4. Spot on.

 

5. The last shot on the at15 when you moved into the open I'm guessing was with regards to what happens after he dies, to try to get into the fight quicker (before all red targets die). Coulda taken 250 dmg but at that point, what's really the harm. The first shot on the at15 could have been placed better, perhaps the minigun port or the huge radiomantower. 

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500 Garbad Points

I think I will award up to 100 points for each question answered and keep score.  The pubbie with the most points at the end of the challenge will win a prize.  Maybe a gold package. 

 

Hopefully that should stir up some good discussion.

 

P.S.  I will approve all the pub submissions after we get a few.

 

EDIT2:

 

I'll also award 100 bonus points for every helpful pubpoast, such as that poast showing the weak side of the turret.

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What are your thoughts regarding the 120mm on the T30?

 

When fighting pubs, I find a random pubbie with the 120mm to be more fearsome because there is less of a reload gap for me to make moves or get behind them.

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The T30 also has a slight bit of the E4's mantlet issue - 279mm is not quite enough to reliably bounce tier 10 guns. The outer area overlaps so you are safe, but the inner region near the gun is only at E-100 turret front levels of protection. Not enough to stop 300+ HEAT or 295 AP if they are at close range. 

 

My T32 got penned by a 50-120 dead in the mantlet (the 298mm flat part) and a tier lower, so you know it can happen. 

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500 Garbad Points to the first blue or lower who can answer these:

This is probably a mistake, but this is too good of an opportunity to learn what I'm not seeing. And, of course Garbad Points! :D

1.  I often say the way to win when your team lemmings is to support the lemming.  Why didn't I do that here (IE, what is different, why does it matter)?

Because the train was headed towards the hill. Which is rather easy for a small enemy force to hold you up, and even when you win the hill the lemming can't easily derp rush any farther without the threat of getting smashed in the open from camping TDs and cancer. Furthermore, in my rather inconsequential opinion the 1, 2, and 3 lines are very important on this map.

2. Evaluate my usage of hull down this fight -- gud, bad, kewelian? And what points did I expose myself to risk unnecessarily?

In your initial engagement at F1 you used a little hill to hide your hall when poking around the corner, but it kind of looks like technically you exposed a sliver of your side to the enemy. However, even if there was a shot it would be pretty tricky to hit, and at least one shot that appeared to be aiming for your side, hit the tip of your cover instead.

Your engagement with the AT-15 looks pretty good to me, except for the moment right before you finish him. You let them have a shot at your lower glacis, but RNG wasn't with him this time.

Finally, your engagement with the T-95 looks pretty good to me as well. You were essentially hall down while he was interested in you.

3. How in the fuck did that blue AT pen my turret?

The AT-15 has 226 penetration with its AP round. The spot that he hit you at has something like 200 mm effectively. That being said, I have a hard time believing that guy was trying to aim for that spot.

4. How right was the T37?

Hmm... A genius? Maybe. A mad man definitely. As they say, "the Garbad do, what the Garbad do." Don't you ever let the cancer keep you down.

5. What did I do well, and what could I have done better?

I think you did very well in the game. You were instrumental in winning your flank, and didn't hesitate to do what you needed to do. One thing that did stand out to me, was how jittery your aiming was when you aimed at cupolas. It seemed like your mouse sensitivity was too high, or perhaps it's just the replay system being buggy.

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while this probably doesn't need to be said, I find the T30 is one of my most one-shotted tanks when I play cancer.  decided to look in tank inspector, found out why.  I'm using the 203mm caliber, with a HE round penetration of 102mm for these shots as the reference shell, (and contrary to popular belief, most arty rounds come in at relatively low angles unless at extreme range, and are far more likely to hit your front/side armor than your roof unless the cancer is at 1km+ from you, or ~750m for the CGC, due to its lower range):
 

never sit side on to a clicker, or this will happen to you.

7wVaF9m.png

 

bzj7DiW.png

 

don't even present a remotely 90 degree shot either.  the engine deck is easy to pen from almost all angles that RNG can send a round into it that aren't blocked by the turret:

 

pG8B3Ac.png

 

even then, HE can pen the near side of the turret roof:

 

tlFsvAe.png

 

even from the front, RNG can still find a way to screw you:

 

72YS307.png

 

obviously at farther distances, the shell angle increases, and the turret roof and engine deck become even more vulnerable.

 

and RIP your commander if RNG decides to send the round into your cupola from any angle (not to mention the frontal turret roof plate in this picture)

 

upLri5R.png

 

for even more horrifying pictures, set your round to HE and the caliber to 203mm or higher and be very scared angry at WG for crappy game mechanics.

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The T30 was a tank that I really wanted to love, but in the end just couldn't. The gun was always to derpy. I don't even want to think about how bad it would have played it before the accuracy changes that happened with patch 8.6 (i think that was the patch for the general accuracy change. Please correct me if I am wrong).

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1.  I often say the way to win when your team lemmings is to support the lemming.  Why didn't I do that here (IE, what is different, why does it matter)?

I would hazard to guess that in this case you were banking on a few things.  A. In general pubbies don't play nearly as aggressively as you do, which means given a defensive position  (read hull down position in this case) and a few tanks for supporting fire, you can hold an entire line on your own (I feel this is doubly true on this map as the 1 line is relatively protected from flanking and shot from the hill should the enemy succeed in taking it).

 

 Additionally if enough of the enemy comes to bear on you you could theoretically retreat back to base and have a fair amount of covering fire from all of the TD's camping on the ridge that normally support the push down the 0 line.  Though admittedly, you'd have to have pretty damn good timing to know when to bug out in that case, the T30 isn't known for being fast.  

 

2.  Evaluate my usage of hull down this fight -- gud, bad, kewelian?  And what points did I expose myself to risk unnecessarily?

The 1st peek around your initial firing position could've been a little more squeamish, but I wouldn't have expected a T28 to show up there either. Granted, he didn't make use of the situation and you pulled back before he could react.  The rest of the fight I felt that you did an excellent job of keeping your hull down.

 

3.  How in the fuck did that blue AT pen my turret?

That is a good question.  He somehow managed to hit the flat spot right behind your manlet.  Because he was on level terrain,  and you were below him with your turret pointed at him his round managed to drop right into that spot.  Certainly another thing that didn't help was where you were aiming at that particular point in time. Low, or rather low enough to push your manlet down far enough for him to sneak in that shot.

 

4.  How right was the T37?

About pandering to you?  I rather enjoy your posts, so yeah I can get on some warm fuzzy action.

 

5.  What did I do well, and what could I have done better?

Considering how aggressively you tend to be I would say you probably could have bullied a little more or traded some health. In this particular game however, I'm not entirely sure what, if anything, it would've accomplished.  The T30's long reload here was well suited to the flank you chose.  Not only because of the fire positions available to you, but because the "push" that was there utterly limp and filled with half-hearted attempts to move forward.  The enemy almost literally lined up one at a time for you to shoot them and take them apart piecemeal.  Even being considerate enough to wait on your reload and not retreating.  

 

Your shooting (in this game a least) also seems more suited to the medium play style.  I know aiming in and waiting on reticle bloom aren't generally your thing but I feel that in the T30 it is a must.  Some of the most frustrating games I've ever played were in the T30 with the 155.  Sometimes even aiming all the way in doesn't help, but even so, considering the reload and if you were up against faster opponents say a platoon of mediums would've made fairly short work of at least the Lowe that was supporting you, if not yourself.  Whiffing a shot in a crucial situation like that is even worse that missing one when you're safe and sound behind terrain.

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Here is a slightly different way of looking at that crazy AT-15 shot.

 

rdVZrRh.png?1

 

As you can see the shell miss the gun mantlet, and hit below the auto ricochet zone on the roof.

 

OkpLMmI.png?1

 

Depending on the angle that spot has somewhere in the realm of 200mm of effective armor.

 

Mo3XYQj.png?1

 

Finally, the AT-15's best gun is fully capable of penetrating that spot on the T-30.

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First replay:

http://wotreplays.com/site/1364003#self

 

500 Garbad Points to the first blue or lower who can answer these:

 

1.  I often say the way to win when your team lemmings is to support the lemming.  Why didn't I do that here (IE, what is different, why does it matter)?

2.  Evaluate my usage of hull down this fight -- gud, bad, kewelian?  And what points did I expose myself to risk unnecessarily?

3.  How in the fuck did that blue AT pen my turret?

4.  How right was the T37?

5.  What did I do well, and what could I have done better?

 

3. Flat bit right above the mantlet, not even 200 effective armour.

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First replay:

http://wotreplays.com/site/1364003#self

 

500 Garbad Points to the first blue or lower who can answer these:

 

1.  I often say the way to win when your team lemmings is to support the lemming.  Why didn't I do that here (IE, what is different, why does it matter)?

2.  Evaluate my usage of hull down this fight -- gud, bad, kewelian?  And what points did I expose myself to risk unnecessarily?

3.  How in the fuck did that blue AT pen my turret?

4.  How right was the T37?

5.  What did I do well, and what could I have done better?

 

1. Your side of 9 line is already choked, an extra tank will be ineffective. They have a lot of big TDs that will probably go 9 line. Anything on 1 line is either going to camp (TDs) or get wrecked by a hull down T30

2. 13:30 hull shows, you could've spotted without showing any. Other than that not so much. Against the AT15 you cop a shot intentionally to get a good angle for a return kill shot.

3. Bad luck really, that tiny plate is actually angled a bit more than normal from the hull position. Micro weak spot with a shell magnet.

4. Genius is over used.

5. It was a good push down the off flank. I'm actually very interested in the answer to this from purples. Did Garbad's play stand out as top 0.1% after he decided to go there or was being there in the first place the main take away? Was it important that the person playing the T30 was really good, or could a green who had been told where to go have achieved the same thing?

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1....The enemy team composition was in your favour. You knew that they had slow tds which would allow you to get to that position first allowing you to trade better (they would be out of cover and prob panic). Just as you were entering that little canyon(?) on the east their tier IX tanks were all spotted which meant youl have no oposition whatsoever. You brought lowe with you in case somebody tried to push.

2.... First position taking the best it can get. You shoved no area which was vunreble to enemy fire. The point in which you exposed too much was on that peek which revealed that t28 . Could have gotten tracked and damaged. Second peek on that t28 was in my opinion too slow. If rng wasnt in you favour he still could have shot your cupola/triangle thingy beacause you werent moving much. Other positioning exeptional.

3.... Weak triangle which can get penned with high pen or by negating the angle (m104 has similar problems)

4....No words can describe such correctness

5....Team assessment and initial deployment lvl Garbad. Hull down mostly perfect (saw two mistakes in my opinion) . You should have stayed still afther you got to that hull down positon. It would allow you to get a shot off for free (that unaimed shot on t69 and 12t makes my point) One last thing that could have been better was shot placment on the at15. First shot was wasted (you could have taken your time to aim properly) T30 has enough pen to go trough the superstructure of the at15 and i would reccomend shooting there. Its bigger of a target and its less rng dependant than cupola shots.

 

 

My 2 cents

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First replay:

http://wotreplays.com/site/1364003#self

 

500 Garbad Points to the first blue or lower who can answer these:

 

1.  I often say the way to win when your team lemmings is to support the lemming.  Why didn't I do that here (IE, what is different, why does it matter)?

2.  Evaluate my usage of hull down this fight -- gud, bad, kewelian?  And what points did I expose myself to risk unnecessarily?

3.  How in the fuck did that blue AT pen my turret?

4.  How right was the T37?

5.  What did I do well, and what could I have done better?

1. Enemy didn't really have anything to contest the hill with mostly campy TD's where as you had tanks, so you went to the other flank as to not overload that one and to prevent them from flanking.

2. Your side was kind of exposed against the T69 when you drove out sideways. T28 I think was low enough not to see your hull though. You could have saved on repair costs by not taking the last shot from the AT.

3. Flat turret front is only 200mm effective.

4. You mean the T37 with a brown tongue in the beginning? Who knows.

5. Valid question.

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First replay:

http://wotreplays.com/site/1364003#self

 

500 Garbad Points to the first blue or lower who can answer these:

 

1.  I often say the way to win when your team lemmings is to support the lemming.  Why didn't I do that here (IE, what is different, why does it matter)?

2.  Evaluate my usage of hull down this fight -- gud, bad, kewelian?  And what points did I expose myself to risk unnecessarily?

3.  How in the fuck did that blue AT pen my turret?

4.  How right was the T37?

5.  What did I do well, and what could I have done better?

 

1. Great hulldown potential on that side, lower risk even if not supported, plus you see the T9s on positions different from the corridor in the west

2. Gud hulldown except vs the AT-15, too much risk in the end, you did not need to overexpose to get the killing blow (even though the game was kind of over, so yeah...)

3. Odd pen, might be because it was flat on (you were tilted down a bit, negating the angle) and he rolled high on pen.

4. Very right

5. You did very well, only thing you could have done better was teleporting on the other flank and killing those guys as well.

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The T30 also has a slight bit of the E4's mantlet issue - 279mm is not quite enough to reliably bounce tier 10 guns. The outer area overlaps so you are safe, but the inner region near the gun is only at E-100 turret front levels of protection. Not enough to stop 300+ HEAT or 295 AP if they are at close range. 

 

My T32 got penned by a 50-120 dead in the mantlet (the 298mm flat part) and a tier lower, so you know it can happen. 

There is also a shell trap directly below the mantlet and the hull which can be devasting when RnGesus intervenes

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First replay:

http://wotreplays.com/site/1364003#self

 

500 Garbad Points to the first blue or lower who can answer these:

 

1.  I often say the way to win when your team lemmings is to support the lemming.  Why didn't I do that here (IE, what is different, why does it matter)?

2.  Evaluate my usage of hull down this fight -- gud, bad, kewelian?  And what points did I expose myself to risk unnecessarily?

3.  How in the fuck did that blue AT pen my turret?

4.  How right was the T37?

5.  What did I do well, and what could I have done better?

1. Going to that flank in a T30 is completely pointless when the area is rushed by 50 million LTs and meds, backed up by most of the TDs on your team. You'd have to hate doing damage or love leaving good hull-down flanks exposed to throw yourself into that mess. On top of that, the team compositions suggest less traffic congestion on that flank from the enemy team and the T30 turret is so strong that it could probably hold its own vs western TD campers anyway.

 

2. Pretty good use, although one could argue from an HP-conservation standpoint that the first shot on the T95 is risky. Why you'd want to save HP at that point is another matter entirely, though. Technically, exposing yourself for the killshot on the AT-15 isn't 100% efficient either but who cares when you have that much HP and nothing else can shoot at you?

 

3. Your turret is pointing very slightly down as you move over the hilly terrain and he shoots at roughly this angle. Unfortunately for you, Tank Inspector reveals that even the slightest change of angle on that triangle gives it ~200 armor and thus a gun with 226 pen, 0,30 accuracy and 1,7 aim time can hit that target.

 

4. Probably fairly accurate, although he was clearly fishing for Garbad Points.

 

5. The initial snapshot was unnecessary when a much slower T69 was driving right behind the LT, although it's easier to detect that stuff on a neutral observation than in-game while playing. The first shot against the AT-15 is a silly miss, considering that the only other tank with possible LoS to you was a 12t miles away: If you were worried about arty, you wouldn't go that far out to begin with. You played the rest of the battle very well and in the end, the two misses didn't cost you much in terms of damage farming or kills, so GG.

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