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BlitzReaper

Should I use server reticule?

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Title says it all - I run NA with about 250-300 ping and don't have too many problems with it right now. However, I see that in some cases my turret shows the direction I pointed to, but the server reticule hasn't moved there yet. I'm thinking I should use the server reticule.

 

Thoughts?

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Yep.

 

I always have the server reticule activated.  Via a mod you can have your "standard" aim circle and a second marker shows the server aim.

It's not just good to have when you are driving around a corner, but also on slow aiming tanks.  You will notice the server aim is much larger than your client aim ... :)

 

PS: 300 ping ... omfg ... I complain when my ping goes up to like 80-100.  Can't you connect to another server (west or east) which gives better latency?

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Yep.

 

I always have the server reticule activated.  Via a mod you can have your "standard" aim circle and a second marker shows the server aim.

It's not just good to have when you are driving around a corner, but also on slow aiming tanks.  You will notice the server aim is much larger than your client aim ... :)

 

PS: 300 ping ... omfg ... I complain when my ping goes up to like 80-100.  Can't you connect to another server (west or east) which gives better latency?

I play in Vietnam. But I refuse to go to the SEA server for a good reason.

 

May I ask what mod that would be? Thanks :)

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I play with 250ms regularly as well and it's playable as long as it stays stable at that 250 and doesn't jump or spike around. Definitely get one of the mods that lets you display client side and server side reticules at the same time. Personally I use the one in Aslain's mod pack but you should be able to find it seperately on its own.

Edit: ServerCross.rar in here worked the last time I used it 2 or 3 patches ago:

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At such high ping rates, it's a harder to aim, actually. Rexxie recommended using it if your ping is about 50 ms.

 

This is coming from me, a 180-300 ms shitter

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I play in Vietnam. But I refuse to go to the SEA server for a good reason.

 

May I ask what mod that would be? Thanks :)

 

I understand, I think ... :)

 

Aslains mod pack, or OMC mod pack.  Both packs have an application that will let you choose and decide which mod you want to install, and which not.

It's an installer, so it can also update the DB for you.  But it is virus-free.

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Yep.

 

I always have the server reticule activated.  Via a mod you can have your "standard" aim circle and a second marker shows the server aim.

It's not just good to have when you are driving around a corner, but also on slow aiming tanks.  You will notice the server aim is much larger than your client aim ... :)

 

PS: 300 ping ... omfg ... I complain when my ping goes up to like 80-100.  Can't you connect to another server (west or east) which gives better latency?

 

 

300 ping is nothing. I know a NA player with purple overalls that plays from Poland with 400 - 500 ping. I couldn't imagine doing that. It also makes me wonder just how much better he would do if he didn't have to play from clear on the other side of the bloody planet.

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300 ping is nothing. I know a NA player with purple overalls that plays from Poland with 400 - 500 ping. I couldn't imagine doing that. It also makes me wonder just how much better he would do if he didn't have to play from clear on the other side of the bloody planet.

Somehow big ping and low fps can improve gameplay. I got my first Radley-Walters's Medal with Hellcat on old Dragon Ridge - ping 200+ and fps under 15.

-----

Is there new crosshair2? I dislike mod packs and I just want this.

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I miss probably 10% of point blank brawl style shots from the server and I not being on the same page.  Anytime I have tried the server side reticule though it's been even more of a mess as it looks like a bouncy ball.  I'm guessing the mod ones are a must?

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I wouldn't use server reticule on its own, the jumpiness drives me mad. My preference is client + server > client > server-side. And the only way to get both to display at the same time is with a mod, so yeah.

 

Also, some relevant advice from a

 

Client reticle is used for leading moving targets because it moves very fluidly. Then you over-lead the target so that the choppy server reticle catches up. Pull trigger once server reticle is properly leading the moving target.

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Server reticule is delayed by ping. What do you think is better, being delayed by (another) 250-300ms or knowing where the server thinks your gun was 250-300ms ago?

 

Personally, I find it pretty terrible. Server or server+client is worse than just the client reticule to me. Waiting for the server reticule to catch up completely murdered my snapshot abilities and delayed just about everything else to the point where I was getting noticably less shots/game out - and this is with 100-120 ping. I cant imagine what it'd do to a 250-300 ping player.

 

Yeah, sure, having a shot fly out from the side of your turret or whatever is frustrating as all hell, but... the peace of mind of knowing that won't happen just isn't worth it unless your ping is incredibly low.

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It's harder to aim, but every time I play on an account that doesn't have it on I end up missing half of my shots before realizing it's off.

 

Also ping is the roundtrip time, not oneway.

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Personally, I find it pretty terrible. Server or server+client is worse than just the client reticule to me. Waiting for the server reticule to catch up completely murdered my snapshot abilities and delayed just about everything else to the point where I was getting noticably less shots/game out - and this is with 100-120 ping. I cant imagine what it'd do to a 250-300 ping player.

 

I concur, I played with 170-200 ping mostly, and server reticle even with client reticule were much worser than none, the supposed accurate server reticle actually always had shots fire to everywhere but the reticle.

 

My way to counter the not so good ping was, if there's clear fire line and I know I can pen no matter what, auto aim. If I have to aim, and situation allows I sit and aim for at least 1 second more after the bloom settle, I snipe, otherwise, no shot. I just hope I'm able to strictly follow my own directive every time ...

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I concur, I played with 170-200 ping mostly, and server reticle even with client reticule were much worser than none, the supposed accurate server reticle actually always had shots fire to everywhere but the reticle.

 

The server reticle is only accurate if you move your reticle at less than 1/(2X) times per second where X is the ping. This is because it is a lagging indicator, it tells you where you reticle was on the server side (truth) X milliseconds ago. 

 

The client side reticle is the opposite; it's a leading indicator that tells you where the true reticle will be in X milliseconds. Thus, the true position of reticle is somewhere between where the client side and the server side reticle is; If you move your retcile at a constant velocity and the ping stays constant then the true position is at the 1/2 way mark along that vector. If your ping is small, then this difference is negligible... but if it's on the order of 2-300 ms the difference will definitely have an impact on game play. 

 

It's theoretically possible to make a "Truth reticle" mod where it'll estimate where the truth reticle is using inputs from both the client-side and server-side reticles... provided that said modder knows a little about controls theory.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_theory

 

The client side reticle is more accurate because it is accurate if you move your reticle at less than 1/X times per second assuming constant ping instead of 1/(2X) times per second when using server reticle. 

 

TL;DR client side reticle is better assuming steady ping.

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Even with steady ping server reticle should be enabled. Many times in dogfight I could lose without it because turning hull and turret in the same time does weird things to aiming (sometimes server reticle is faster than client one). Also sometimes SR is fully aimed when CR is opposite.

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I play on 60-80ms ping on EU1, and I can't imagine playing without server reticule (i use mod to see both client and server).

When I sometimes play on my brother's account, he disables server reticule, and I miss a lot of shots.

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The client side reticle is more accurate because it is accurate if you move your reticle at less than 1/X times per second assuming constant ping instead of 1/(2X) times per second when using server reticle. 

 

TL;DR client side reticle is better assuming steady ping.

 

I know the theory since myself a software engineer, but in practice the server side reticle has no meaningful different in my experience, when I shot immediately on both reticles align, mostly it still fire up high. I found the server reticle always lag behind the client one in a consistent pace. If I wait a bit after that, it makes no different from if I wait a bit LONGER after I pointed the client one only. At the end the server reticle is more or less an annoying flying bug on my screen

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You can see my post on my take on the clientside vs serverside reticule, but the general gist of it is that being ahead of where the "true" reticule's position is (clientside) is far superior to behind behind where the "true" reticule's position is (serverside). Clientside means you need a slight delay (i.e, natural human reaction time) to be accurate, while serverside means you need to fire before you actually need to fire.

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Rexxie: just wanted to thank you for your thoughtful poast about the mechanics of the crosshair and how it relates to human reaction time. I'm going to give client-side a spin and see how it goes. Been running server-side since I can remember and I'm not even sure why. Thanks again.

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I know the theory since myself a software engineer, but in practice the server side reticle has no meaningful different in my experience, when I shot immediately on both reticles align, mostly it still fire up high. I found the server reticle always lag behind the client one in a consistent pace. If I wait a bit after that, it makes no different from if I wait a bit LONGER after I pointed the client one only. At the end the server reticle is more or less an annoying flying bug on my screen

 

I concur, if the ping is small enough there is no meaningful difference between the two. The difference only matters if two conditions are met 1) ping is large and 2) you are constantly moving your reticle while you shoot. if you pause and not move your reticle for 2x the ping time, then the cilent, truth, and server reticle should be identical.

 

But if you want to choose client vs server reticle, the theory say that the client server should be better.... or you can just read what Rexxie said which is basically the same idea I was trying to convey... but with less math and more down to earth English. 

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I raged hard at this game aiming system back in closed beta ( you know when people teleported around because the position refresh on screen lagged like it does on minimap now :D ) , still raged when they fixed the laggy refresh (kind of , we still have it at long range ) , then I found server side reticle, never looked back. I'd rather quit than use client side aim again.

 

TLDR : YES

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But if you want to choose client vs server reticle, the theory say that the client server should be better.... or you can just read what Rexxie said which is basically the same idea I was trying to convey... but with less math and more down to earth English. 

 

Yeah, sorry about that, realized I was mostly reiterating what you said. You were absolutely right, I just wanted to bring up how it relates to reaction time.

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I use server reticle mod.  Have you ever noticed how occasionally when moving your turret 180° the client reticle will go one way, server the other? Frustrating.

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I use server reticle mod.  Have you ever noticed how occasionally when moving your turret 180° the client reticle will go one way, server the other? Frustrating.

 

Yeah had it happen once or twice, though I think it's only made me miss 2 or so shots over 10K games.

 

There is no hard constraint that ties the servers model of where you're aiming to the clients model of where you're aiming. If you are rotating your turret, and you spin the camera to the opposite side to where your turret is currently facing there is a chance that you end up splitting the difference between the client and server side position, and the server will think clockwise is the shortest direction to rotate to your camera direction, and the client will think that anti clockwise is the shortest direction. This is what causes shots coming out of the back of your turret, when you let them both rotate away from eachother before firing.

 

When using a dual reticule mod I aim with the client side, and judge the aim time / bloom with the server side. And only when the the server side reticule lags the client side by an unexpected amount will I wait for the server reticule to catch up. It's the best way.

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