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The Constructive Arty Thread

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 a thread where people come to constructively and maturely debate their opinions and views on arty

 

 

 

my view: good for getting noobs addicted to wot, shit for everyone else. 

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I would suggest that the elitism in this post is every bit as toxic as the "fuckartyandeveryonewhoplaysit" posts. Last time i checked there were 9 other tiers in the game.

 

Cant handle the truth? official forum - this way pls

 

Someone claiming to "constructively debating arti" with ~50 games in arti, all them low tier ... thats like saying I m an mechanical engineer, because I can swing a hammer without killing myself in the process.

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Cant handle the truth? official forum - this way pls

 

Someone claiming to "constructively debating arti" with ~50 games in arti, all them low tier ... thats like saying I m an mechanical engineer, because I can swing a hammer without killing myself in the process.

 

"Must be this tall to ride" is not a rule that exists outside of PPs. Worry about the arguments, not battle counts. We're supposed to be here to educate, not ostracize, this is not a private club.

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"Must be this tall to ride" is not a rule that exists outside of PPs. Worry about the arguments, not battle counts. We're supposed to be here to educate, not ostracize, this is not a private club.

 

OP could use search facility?

This existing thread is written quite constructively and maturely (starts off that way at least): 

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I can confirm that for sure from my experiences. I definitely get one-shotted a lot more in my 140 than my IS-7, due to the lack of top turret armor and generally fighting at longer ranges, which means more open firing lanes for arty. I haven't had too many issues being one-shotted myself ever since the mod became really popular, but I've also seen a lot more big hits from arty going to others. Literally cancer....

I find most mediums that I see oneshot arr side on to the arty, where the round pens above the tracks. Most is7's i see oneshot are hit at extreme range from the arty, the only place where rounds have a chance of penning the engine deck.

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Regardless of whatever they do to arty balance, anything with indirect fire will have the potential to worsen PvP gameplay where once you're out, you're out for the whole match.

 

Softcap arty to 2 per side with a hardcap of 3 for dinkleberries that for some reason want to platoon 3 of them(meaning if there is no platoon the most you'd see per side is 2, with 3 ONLY happening with platoons)

 

While I'll never be a fan of indirect fire in this game, I think most would agree that it gets exponentially worse the more there are, so lower caps at least make a poor mechanic less likely to impede gameplay

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"Must be this tall to ride" is not a rule that exists outside of PPs. Worry about the arguments, not battle counts. We're supposed to be here to educate, not ostracize, this is not a private club.

 

 

what next? Are you really of the opinion that someone with 50 games in t3-4 meds and no further experience in that class, should be voicing opinions and arguments about high tier meds? Sorry I lack the patience to deal with morons like this, who feel the should be taken serious because of their broad experience in that subject.

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OP could use search facility?

This existing thread is written quite constructively and maturely (starts off that way at least): 

Sorry but that's not really a constructive topic about arty - it's a well written and well based rant on why arty sucks. Logical, solid, surely not constructive for arty.

 

A constructive discussionfor arty would be, for instance:

- how to actually effect the battle in SPGs

- avoidance tactics

- counter-battery fire, both offensive and defensive

- the doctrine of following your assault, or "assault SPGs for dummies"

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Arty is needed for CW gameplay, no question about it. Therefore, keep it in the game.

 

I would

HE max pen is 40mm. Direct hits on the softest of vics will do full damage, otherwise no.

No prem HE or HEAT. give all standard HE the same blast radius.

Two rounds available, AP and HE

Increase bloom

Decrease aim-time

Increased repair time for tanks hit with a direct hit, otherwise same repair time. Call it a "stunning" effect. Believe me, HE fucks up your ability to do much when direct hit. That also said, Ive been hit with a double stack 155mm arty shell in the back of an up-armored humvee. The ONLY thing penetrated was our rubber tires. The round blew up 5ft from our Humvee. Fuck you WG

Slight increase to ROF

Increase shell arc and travel time x1.5 

hard cap arty in pub battles at 3

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Another thing:

 

Arty isn't going to get modeled on the wishes of the community - parituclarly not of this community, since it's basically a restricted group of like-minded fellows who do not really represent the general population. So discussion onimposing changes and whatnot it's pretty stale, and pretty useless. Sure, it might be intresting... the first 100 times. Then reading every other topic where SPGs get so much as named derail into a half "fuck arty" half "arty should changes like this and this and that" becomes pretty boring, bothersome, and sterile in the content department.

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Sorry I lack the patience to deal with morons like this, who fell the should be taken serious because of their broad experience in that subject.

 

Then simply ignore them, the forum caters to all skill levels and preferences. Part of educating is listening to what people of lesser experience say, as long as they say in a meaningful and articulate way, and correcting their misconceptions and putting forward information.

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Sorry but that's not really a constructive topic about arty - it's a well written and well based rant on why arty sucks. Logical, solid, surely not constructive for arty.

 

A constructive discussionfor arty would be, for instance:

- how to actually effect the battle in SPGs

- avoidance tactics

- counter-battery fire, both offensive and defensive

- the doctrine of following your assault, or "assault SPGs for dummies"

 

 

Hi,

 

the scope set out by the OP was 

"I thought that i would attempt to do something that  has never been achieved in wotlabs before, a thread where people come to constructively and maturely debate their opinions and views on arty"

[^^sorry, not sure how to multiquote]

 

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That's a failure at debut, never has this forum managed to keep being marginally mature when talking about arty save for very few and sporadic posts...

 

 

EDIT: for multiquoting.

 

Under the posts you want to quote, next to the "quote" button, there's the "multiquote" button.

 

Basically, choose which posts you want to multiquote, then press the "multiquote" button under every one of those. As soon as you're finished look at the bottom righ conrer of the screen - there should be a popup with "reply to x quoted post(s)". Click that to multiquote. It keeps memory of the posts you decided to multiquote in the same topic even through different pages of the topic itself, but AFAIK it cannot multiquote from different posts - can somebody confirm that?

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what next? Are you really of the opinion that someone with 50 games in t3-4 meds and no further experience in that class, should be voicing opinions and arguments about high tier meds? Sorry I lack the patience to deal with morons like this, who fell the should be taken serious because of their broad experience in that subject.

 

I'm probably the only person who agrees with folterknecht on this, but a large part of the "skill" related to artillery is experience, learning the abilities of your artillery piece, firing lanes on maps, what you can and can't shoot over.  this takes time to learn, as you need large numbers of games on every map to try different positions, experiment, see what works and what doesn't, etc.  in this process you learn what your gun can and can't shoot over, positions to shoot around what you can't shoot over, among other important stuff.  I have a decent amount of experience in artillery, but nowhere near the number of games that the top arty players in top clans (ex: Masamune has near double my games in artillery).  when I was testing the mod, I had some of my best games on maps I normally had trouble on in low arc artillery, like Pearl River.  That's probably the biggest advantage of this mod, as semi-skilled artillery players will be able to find new firing angles much more easily, instead of requiring hundreds/thousands of games of experience to learn.

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That's probably the biggest advantage of this mod, as semi-skilled artillery players will be able to find new firing angles much more easily, instead of requiring hundreds/thousands of games of experience to learn.

Than how is this mod not a huge advantage if it is allowing you to hit shots that you were previously not able to hit? With both views you can now choose which view makes the shot easier. Of course you are going to have those idiots who just use one view or the other but that's like people who spam pure heat!

 

Also you don't have to play a tank to know how they perform, there are tons of tanks out there that I haven't played, yet I know alot about them from just encountering them so often!

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Than how is this mod not a huge advantage if it is allowing you to hit shots that you were previously not able to hit? With both views you can now choose which view makes the shot easier. Of course you are going to have those idiots who just use one view or the other but that's like people who spam pure heat!

 

Also you don't have to play a tank to know how they perform, there are tons of tanks out there that I haven't played, yet I know alot about them from just encountering them so often!

 

I think it will give the biggest advantage to the middle of the spectrum, and those who shoot accurate arties that can attempt to place rounds (french, obj261).  it will not help those like folter who already have the experience, or the deep reds who don't know how to do anything with this new information.  think xvm.  the top players who already have map awareness and view/spotting ranges and camo down, thus aren't helped as much by last known position and view range circles on minimap, but it's nice to have.  Meanwhile, the reds don't know what to do with this information, and the players in the middle who can actually use the information, but don't have the awareness/memorization down, benefit the most.

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Keep arty as a *support* role.  Start arty trees at tier 4-6.  Up tier arty so that tier 10 is hummel-like.  Will people be pissed at losing hummel damage at tier 10?  That's it.  The mechanic is not broken, it is the amount of alpha at each tier that is.  The other thing I would do is redo HP on arty so that they are sub 100HP.  If it gets shot, it DIES.  If arty splashes it, it MIGHT live.

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 think xvm.  the top players who already have map awareness and view/spotting ranges and camo down, thus aren't helped as much by last known position and view range circles on minimap, but it's nice to have.  Meanwhile, the reds don't know what to do with this information, and the players in the middle who can actually use the information, but don't have the awareness/memorization down, benefit the most.

Really? I would be lost without xvm last know positions, maybe not as much as the average pubbie but I still think it is a huge advantage. Just like if WG decided to give all tanks a birds eye view, no it wouldn't make our shots more accurate but it would provide us more ways to get shots off.

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Just like if WG decided to give all tanks a birds eye view, no it wouldn't make our shots more accurate but it would provide us more ways to get shots off.

 

Mods which give tankers new views are all the rage.  They win awards and everything.  Why not a mod to flip into god-mode while driving L/M/H to keep an eye out for falling trees?  Even better, just summarise the broken scenery/trees on minimap in real time.  A mod that useful would surely be award winning as well?   

:/

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Mods which give tankers new views are all the rage.  They win awards and everything.  Why not a mod to flip into god-mode while driving L/M/H to keep an eye out for falling trees?  Even better, just summarise the broken scenery/trees on minimap in real time.  A mod that useful would surely be award winning as well?   

:/

I wish I could use godmode in any tank, for no other reason than render range is fucking bullshit when I can see them one moment, and then not, but still see the ground they're on. 

"Hey, I know you can see where he is, and I know you have a line of fire, but fuck you, he just moved back 2 meters."

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@Tedster59:

 

This mod will mislead you to take some shots you shouldnt take in the first place.

Only because the tumor of an E5 is poking out over a rock and you now can aim it, doesnt mean its a good idea to shot at it with arti (exaggeration).

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I think this mod has been a fantastic "Am I really arty safe?" tool for someone like myself with like 295 games out of ~15000 in arty. Just from that alone I would recommend people use that mod, even for just a little bit

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Let's consider this as a discussion point: If this game had respawns, would arty still be a major issue?

My guess is no, 90% of the rage induced by artillery is the "Fuck you" feeling of being kicked out of a game through unilateral action.

Look at CoD's noobtubes, they're even more instantkill than artillery, but nowhere near as rage inducing simply because of the low opportunity cost of being killed by one.

This is partially true, but mostly irrelevant since WoT doesn't and shouldn't have respawns. Besides, being insta-one-shot is still annoying as fuck in WT.

Besides, the real problem is the whole issue of being one-shot or wrecked from all the way across the map by a player whose supposed "balancing weaknesses" of thin armor, low HP and maybe poor mobility simply almost never come into play unless they've already lost the match.

Even in the case of arties that are balanced and not actually OP, the entire setup is still broken.

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Lurked forever here, posting now because of this shitlord mod that is out. My views on arty:

 

- Arty plays a role and needs to be in the game.

- Pre-mod it in no way resembles the effect arty should have on the game. Arty should be a suppression weapon, not an insta-kill sniper weapon.

- Post-mod it's worse.

- The overhead view is an abomination. The mod's view is actually slightly less so. The ability to use both of them is so insanely OP it's ridiculous. 

 

How would I design arty? I would try to make it as close to how artillery was really used in WWII. Specifically:

 

- Arty's "special view" should be to see from its spotter's tank position. The spotter can stay in that position until the arty player moves to another allied tank's position. 

- It targets a location which sets the base direction and elevation of the arty's gun.

- Fire a round. Judge the impact point and adjust direction and elevation.

- Fire another round and adjust more as necessary.

- "Fire for Effect" and the arty shoots much more quickly than it does now and rains down more, less accurate rounds. 

 

This way it can deny advance along certain areas, excel at suppression by raining down many more shells, but it is balanced by the fact that it takes time to set up and shoot the initial shots and thus set up for "Fire for Effect"

 

I would be perfectly fine both playing and fighting against a mechanic like that. The current mechanic (now amplified with this new mod) is just broken and is neither fun to play nor play against. 

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