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DingBat

Not Your Average Reroll: 1000 games and done

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A while ago I embarked on a little, personal experiment:

  1. Start a new account
  2. Do not use premium time
  3. Do not platoon
  4. Do not participate in tank companies
  5. Use gold only for purchasing of additional tank slots, barracks slots, or to move equipment from one tank to another

The goal of the experiment is to see if achieving purple, or near purple stats is possible under these conditions or, as many detractors like to say, players are purple only because they pay to win.

 

My thoughts on the first  can be found here.

 

Those of you who are observant will notice that there's no post for 800 games. That's because I got so caught up in this latest mission to get 15 kills a day that I blew right past 800 games without noticing. 

 

Results

 

So, lets talk about the results. 

 

Games played: 1000

Wins: 586

Win %: 58.6

 

Average XP: 420

Average damage: 656

 

K/D ratio: 2.98

Damage ratio: 2.98 (not a typo, they're exactly the same)

 

Survival rate: 40.7%

 

Tanks played: 23

Ace Tankers: 11

 

WoT Rating: 5401

 

WN8 Overall: 1878

WN8 60 day: 2441

 

signature.png

 

Personal Commentary

 

  • Didn't hit purple, but really gauged probability of that as about 50/50 going in.
  • Actually had more fun than I thought I would
  • T67 is beast, but playing other TDs at low tier can be really boring/frustrating.
    • 368 battles, 14 Ace tankers (that I remember to save the recordings of. There's probably more). That's an Ace tanker every 26 battles, and I KNOW I was doing it more frequently than that. 
    • The little tank is still a stone killer. 
  • Red players may be "unaware", but they are generally nice enough. Ditto for purples. Greens and blues are where you find most of the dickheads in this game.
    • Got occasional comments on being a "bad reroll". Whenever that happened, it was a green or blue player. 
    • Got tk'd once for being a reroll. Blue player.
  • You can make decent enough money at lower tiers w a good tank. My T67 typically netted 20-30k on many battles, depending on how well I did. 
  • It is significantly harder to carry as solo than I remember it being when I was a new player. I can see why some players feel as if they have no influence on the outcome of battles.

 

Lessons and/or Myths Busted

 

  1. Myth: There is a lot of seal clubbing at low tiers
    • Result: Confirmed, sort of
    • Personal experience was that there is a LOT of blues and purples in tier 1 and 2 for some reason. Less so in tiers 3-5.
  2. Myth: Platooning is required for good results
    • Result: Busted, if you consider blue "good"
  3. Myth: Premium/gold/free xp is required for good results
    • Result: Busted, again, if you consider blue "good"
  4. Hypothesis: Many players in high tiers are "less than successful" because they rush through lower tiers
    • Result: Tentatively confirmed
    • After 1000 battles, I have exactly ONE crew with 100% in the first skill.
      • I played 368 games in the T67 and, without premium, have crew with 100% in first skill and 80% in second. 
      • With no gold, players frequently lose battles by having to retrain crews to 75%. It is therefore highly likely that they will elite the tank before making significant progress on the crew skill. 
      • Few players have the discipline to play nearly 400 games in a tier 5 vehicle to build up crew skills
    • Equipment is hugely expensive without premium
      • After 1000 battles, I have 2 camo nets, 2 binocs, 4 rammers, 3 vents, and 1 GLD
      • This is approx 3-4 million credits (I bought quite a few on sale), which is nearly approaching the combined purchase price of most of the tanks I played
      • I KNOW of the value of equipment, but a lot of new players don't. And if they did, it's doubtful they'd have the patience to grind that much.
  5. Myth: Stock tanks are a big reason why some players results are "less than optimal"
  • Result: Tentatively busted
  • Even without premium, I found that I could generate enough free xp to get over the first couple of upgrades IF I was patient and plays elited tanks a bit longer. You really have to husband that free xp carefully, however. 

 

So, that's it for now. I'm going to keep playing the account, because I like my T67, but I won't be tracking results closely any longer. Feel free to ridicule or ask questions, as your temperament demands.

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What are results excluding T67? Or for the t67 by itself? How much of the blueness is due to great tanks for its tier like T67.

 

I played 368 games int he T67, or about 37% of total games played. I won 60% of those games, or 220 games. Total games won was 586, so the T67 represented 37.5% of my total wins. 

 

I only had 1 significant tank under 50% win rate and that was the SU85 with 56 games and a 43% win rate. I love the SU85, I just couldn't carry in it. 

You did well, but I think it should be noted that your average tier was 4.12.  In my experience it's much easier to do well and carry games in tiers 7 and below.

 

My experience disputes that. I'm not sure how long it's been for you since you played tiers 1-4 but, for me, it had been a while. Those tiers are awfully chaotic now. Or, at least more chaotic. 

 

I was also, at least initially, primarily playing TDs, which was a tactical mistake since they definitely have a harder time carrying at lower tiers what with the tendency of teams to self-immolate in the first 5 minutes. 

 

But I think you're also missing at least part of the point, which was to do things without premium, or platooning, and to try to get decent results. Perhaps I could have reached tier 6 or even 7 had I not spent time in training crews and buying equipment, but so what? The experiment wasn't to see how high a tier I could reach.

 

 

I should also say that, after playing this, I feel like my overall stats are inflated and that these results are probably closer to my true solo ability. I've had more trouble than most in adapting to the recent meta-changes, meaning that I'm way too aggressive even today. 

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I should have been more specific, I meant mostly tiers 5-7.  Obviously the T29 is extremely good, but IIRC it was so easy to win in tiers 5-7 with the M4, M6, T29, T20 etc (I think my T20 win rate was 100% after about 25 games, my T29 DPG used to be amazing, but I was also padding hard).  I'm not saying you did bad by any means though, and I know how chaotic the first tiers can be, even though It's been awhile since I played much.

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You did well, but I think it should be noted that your average tier was 4.12.  In my experience it's much easier to do well and carry games in tiers 7 and below.

I find it easier to carry/do better in higher tier games. IMO.

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Nice job!

 

Just a few questions:

Why is your Recent Gameplay and your overall are different when you have exactly one thousand games played, shouldn't they be the same?

Where the average pubbies that were grinding through those tiers more open to follow your recommended advice (Asking people to push for example)?

Did you check the statistics of any of the Green / Blue players? If you did, did they have high numbers of battles in low tier tanks?

How many times did you see Autismspeaks platooned at tier I?

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Nice job!

 

Just a few questions:

Why is your Recent Gameplay and your overall are different when you have exactly one thousand games played, shouldn't they be the same?

Where the average pubbies that were grinding through those tiers more open to follow your recommended advice (Asking people to push for example)?

Did you check the statistics of any of the Green / Blue players? If you did, did they have high numbers of battles in low tier tanks?

How many times did you see Autismspeaks platooned at tier I?

 

Excellent questions:

 

1. Why is recent gameplay and overall different? 

 

I don't know about this. My only thought is that WotLabs has some trouble with players below 1000 games. It tells me three numbers. Overall is 1878. 60 Day is 2441. Last 1000 games is 1915. Now, you would think that last 1000 games and overall would be the same, but it's not. 

 

2. Experience w pubbies. 

 

I saw about as many bots in lower tier games as in higher. 

 

Overall, players were much less likely to follow "suggestions". Level of politeness made no difference whatsoever. 

There were obviously many more players at lower levels who either a. Did not watch chat or b. Had it turned off.

Incidence of valley pushes on Lakeville were easily 3x that seen at higher tiers. Virtually EVERY lower tier game on Lakeville has someone saying "Let's go valley".

 

I should not be too unfair to blues and greens. I saw plenty that were civil and good players. I rarely saw platoons of purples at lower tiers, purples were virtually always solo and about 50/50 unclanned. I saw some obvious low tier "specialists" with huge #s of games at lower tiers. The specials and tournaments would throw off the numbers quite a bit as even players who normally played only higher tiers would descend to tier 5/6 when missions demanded. 

 

I saw Autism once, I think. :)

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The goal of the experiment is to see if achieving purple, or near purple stats is possible under these conditions or, as many detractors like to say, players are purple only because they pay to win.

 

If this was the Goal intended shouldn't you have at least achieved a purple recent on your main account for a good period of time in order to insure you yourself were playing at unicum level to give more accurate results " players are purple only because they pay to win". 
 
I myself never thought that someone would come up with something like this and I find it quite interesting. The thing that I question really is that if for example I was too undertake this same Reroll would the results be the same? No, They obviously wouldn't in the end every player is different. What you did justify is that by doing this even with all the disadvantages your stats were still Good and you still had a positive win rate which actually puts those idiot conspiracy theorist to rest saying "premium gives you better mm" "if i don't buy gold my matchmaking/RNG gets worse" "This game is pay2win" etc etc which are people that no matter what skill level usually end up on my ignore list for obvious reasons.  
 
I'm curious and think you should continue to 2k I would like to see how going up into the mid level tiers affects your stats because playing stock mid tiers would be extremely hard and wouldn't be surprising no matter the players skill if their stats started to plummet anyways +1 good work and hope you continue with these interesting experiments.  

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You did well, but I think it should be noted that your average tier was 4.12.  In my experience it's much easier to do well and carry games in tiers 7 and below.

in my experience solo below tier8 is absolute garbage and will lose more thsn tierX solo

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Myth: Stock tanks are a big reason why some players results are "less than optimal"

  • Result: Tentatively busted
  • Even without premium, I found that I could generate enough free xp to get over the first couple of upgrades IF I was patient and plays elited tanks a bit longer. You really have to husband that free xp carefully, however. 

 

 

I agree with most of what you said except for this one, well not exactly disagree but I think you kind of missed the point of "grinding a stock tank", once you get to t7-8 getting those first few upgrades isn't cheap anymore. For instance +20k for tracks alone, that's 400k normal xp, and assuming 500 avg xp per game that's 800 games, it gets worse with t9s especially if you choose to start a line with multiple gun upgrades and a turret (you played TDs).

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I agree with most of what you said except for this one, well not exactly disagree but I think you kind of missed the point of "grinding a stock tank", once you get to t7-8 getting those first few upgrades isn't cheap anymore. For instance +20k for tracks alone, that's 400k normal xp, and assuming 500 avg xp per game that's 800 games, it gets worse with t9s especially if you choose to start a line with multiple gun upgrades and a turret (you played TDs).

 

Good point. It was manageable at tiers 4-5, if you were ok with grinding for a while, and saving all the xp for critical upgrades. That obviously won't work as well at tier 7-8-9s.

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My experience disputes that. I'm not sure how long it's been for you since you played tiers 1-4 but, for me, it had been a while. Those tiers are awfully chaotic now. Or, at least more chaotic.

 

Low tiers are certainly chaotic, but it's a myth that this makes them harder to win. The statistical evidence is clear: Players who play multiple tiers win more games in their lower tiers. An average ~1600 WN8 player wins over 60% of their games in a T40, SU-85B, T-28 or Matilda, and 50% in a tier 10. That's probably slightly polluted by platoon-padding, but there's definitely a substantial gap.

 

Let's have a look at your rStats:

 

rWinC: 1.05

rDmg: 1.18

rFrag: 1.18

rSpotC: 0.47

rDef: 1.93

 

So compared to other sealclubbers in the same tanks, you have quite high damage and frags compared to your winrate. You have very high defence and very low spots. For solo players, those are generally equal on average.

 

Your spots are only slightly low on your main account, so my guess is that you're overestimating the view range of low tier tanks and sitting too far back to properly support your yolo pubbies. It's not just the tank view range: Most low tier players are running 75% crews at best, and few of them have binos or optics. Most low tier tanks and especially the TDs also have excellent camo stats.

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Low tiers are certainly chaotic, but it's a myth that this makes them harder to win. The statistical evidence is clear: Players who play multiple tiers win more games in their lower tiers. An average ~1600 WN8 player wins over 60% of their games in a T40, SU-85B, T-28 or Matilda, and 50% in a tier 10. That's probably slightly polluted by platoon-padding, but there's definitely a substantial gap.

 

Let's have a look at your rStats:

 

rWinC: 1.05

rDmg: 1.18

rFrag: 1.18

rSpotC: 0.47

rDef: 1.93

 

So compared to other sealclubbers in the same tanks, you have quite high damage and frags compared to your winrate. You have very high defence and very low spots. For solo players, those are generally equal on average.

 

Your spots are only slightly low on your main account, so my guess is that you're overestimating the view range of low tier tanks and sitting too far back to properly support your yolo pubbies. It's not just the tank view range: Most low tier players are running 75% crews at best, and few of them have binos or optics. Most low tier tanks and especially the TDs also have excellent camo stats.

 

Interesting. I tentatively agree with the observation about hanging too far back. I had originally intended to play only TDs in this experiment, as a further handicap and did this through the first, say, 500 games. It was also supposed to help me curb my normal over-aggressive weak spots. The M8 and T67 were supposed to be a bit of relief from the no turret drudgery. I quickly discovered that:

 

a. It's boring as hell to only play tds

b. I'm not very good at them. Certainly not at lower tiers. 

 

I did observe that there were many battles were I only became engaged after a good portion of my team was dead, which clearly indicated I was playing too far back. 

 

Good catch. 

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At lowtier you need to time your rushes very well.

I have a reroll experience of my own because of a one-week ban for TKing. You need to exploit your derprushers up to a very definite point where the momentum is going down. At that point you need to make your move. The very punishing factor about lowtier gameplay is that campers have an insane advantage because of how bad are dispersion factors at that tier.

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This is the end result. I played only up to tier 3 though - M2MT for US and T-26 for RU. If you can read the battle flow you will win a LOT.

Things that help a lot at lowtiers.

- Being able to use the maps well is very important. If you can camp the right spot so you are able to fire aimed you'll instantly be miles over any competition.

- 100% crew is basically enough. Even fully equipped seal clubbers have a very hard time countering a long term flow control strategy

- Knowledge of camo >>>> everything else. Not getting shot is the most important thing.

- Active gameplay is punishing for you. You need to be extremely passive or you'll get rekt a lot.

- Most high tier tactics are downirght terrible. The winning gameplay is a veey careful opening camo sniping up unil your pubbies run out of momentum, and then one decisive rush. If it's successful it's a win, i it's not it's GG. All very simple.

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How big do you think equipment makes a difference at those tier? I think it is big on purpose, to encourage you to get a premium account. But not sure since I never went back a played without a proper setup.

 

I ask because I see people in high tiers running tanks without the right gear or no gear ( no kidding) and it all comes back to not having a premium account. I tell them its self defeating but they just tell me to go fornicate myself.

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Imho, up to tier 5 you can run without equipment just fine. After that it becomes a bit painful, but you can manage up to tier 7 somehow, despite a definite tanking in performances. At tier 8 get equipment or gtfo.

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Very interesting. Someone above mentioned the tank types. If you had chosen a different nation and/or different types of tanks the results might have been drastically different, either positively or negatively. I know it won't happen, but it'd be great if you did this with some different tanks and see the results. That would be the true statistically significant way to do this. Or at least closer.

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Reroll without some $$$ and you'll have hard time getting purple.

No, not really. I'm almost entirely cash free.

 

This was my starting point (give or take, ignore the recent)

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No, not really. I'm almost entirely cash free.

 

This was my starting point (give or take, ignore the recent)

signature.png

 

Hmmm, interesting. I suppose you can if you stick around lower tiers to buff up your credits and crew? Otherwise from tiers 1-4 you really have to reset crews often and buy equipment(well, binos and camo net at least)....

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SirFoch has been doing totally free-to-play test on RU server: http://www.noobmeter.com/player/ru/sirfoch/34044085/

 

You can follow it on his stream also, zero gold used, not even equipment demount. I think results are pretty nice so far, although game doesn't look very fun that way to be honest :) 

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Hmmm, interesting. I suppose you can if you stick around lower tiers to buff up your credits and crew? Otherwise from tiers 1-4 you really have to reset crews often and buy equipment(well, binos and camo net at least)....

Yeah, at the start i spent a lot of time in T4-5 so i could get some equipment and cash. I think i have 300 or something PzIII battles - grinding the crew and some free xp to skip the worst grinds ahead.

 

Not having premium or a T8 pref makes it hard to get cash in the long run, i have to stick to some T6/7/8 tanks to make some money but it's pretty slow

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