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Here is why blues are cancer, metrics promote bad play, and possibly why YOU the reader are a padded baddie

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hm let me see ...

 

Eff - lol no. Cap/Def shitlords rule + tank selection

PR (WG) - only works somehow, when applied to big number of players. On individual basis I find it lacking

PR by Noobmeter (is that even supported by XVM?) - only works for solo players. Play platoons and it becomes meaningless fast.

WN7 - kill steal much? drove the wrong/right tanks in the past?

WN8 - makes somewhat sense together with avg tier, WR and battles. Pray that you arnt fooled by a blue reroll shitlord, who s good at garage managment, tank selection and lacks in the skill department.

My XVM (Aslain's) shows WN8, WR, and DPG. I wasn't really referring to efficiency and the two personal ratings. To be honest, the real best evaluation we can make is based off of a combination of WN8, WR, and the DPG in tanks, and that's been my point.

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hm let me see ...

 

Eff - lol no. Cap/Def shitlords rule + tank selection

PR (WG) - only works somehow, when applied to big number of players. On individual basis I find it lacking

PR by Noobmeter (is that even supported by XVM?) - only works for solo players. Play platoons and it becomes meaningless fast.

WN7 - kill steal much? drove the wrong/right tanks in the past?

WN8 - makes somewhat sense together with avg tier, WR and battles. Pray that you arnt fooled by a blue reroll shitlord, who s good at garage managment, tank selection and lacks in the skill department.

I feel like WG PR is almost an analog for Overall.

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Can confirm that's my favorite version of toons. No comms, no tactical shit, just taking out two baddies on your team and putting 2 people in who know what they are doing. Each player does their own thing, and if they are doing it right then you happen to end up at the same spot in the middle of an engagement and just sync up.

I can confirm that. Toonies always ask where we should go on any given map and seeing as how i'm almost always in my Bat these days all i can tell them is where i intend on going for early lights and some early dmg after that all i can tell them is I will be roaming so i cant tell you. But if they ask for and truly need help i come back them up

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That's not really how the G recruitment process works. The recruiter looks at the dossier of the individual in detail, no doubt, but that only allows him to clear the first bar. Subsequent to that there is several weeks of platooning with the recruiter and designated talent evaluators before you get to join. And stuff like this guy's play is absolutely looked at. 

 

But people like BornToKill and PantherCommander still managed to get in

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Because based on Crabs' narrative, the guy chose to throw the match away for a little more damage.

People who try to do the right thing and fail are OK in my book. This guy's skill level is high enough he knew that he was throwing the match by making the choice he made.

As I said earlier, I can accept an honest Baddie. Players who intentionally throw a match just to farm damage are assholes.

There is no way you or anyone else can know why this guy did what he did. It is absolutely possible that he just played bad. It is very easy to analyze game from replay, while ingame you have very little time to make decisions and everyone makes mistakes that look very stupid afterwards. 

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Many people are STILL missing the point.  The OP was not about whether this or any metric is flawed (or can be modified to show something more or less useful in battle), nor whether this one guy is a shitlord.  It's about how playing to a COMPLETELY EXTERNAL metric does harm to the game, because people are going to obsess over it and focus on it at the cost of doing things that will help your team win.  He's right about that.  The metric INTERNAL to the game is WR.  

 

Who cares whether platooning pads it.  If you have a great WR from 'tooning with much better players over a long time, first, congrats on getting much better players to platoon with you for a long time, and, second, once you're 'tooning with whatever clan recruiters for the clan you're trying to join, they'll spot the fact that you're not very good quite quickly.  

 

Everything else is e-peening.  

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Many people are STILL missing the point. The OP was not about whether this or any metric is flawed (or can be modified to show something more or less useful in battle), nor whether this one guy is a shitlord. It's about how playing to a COMPLETELY EXTERNAL metric does harm to the game, because people are going to obsess over it and focus on it at the cost of doing things that will help your team win. He's right about that. The metric INTERNAL to the game is WR.

Who cares whether platooning pads it. If you have a great WR from 'tooning with much better players over a long time, first, congrats on getting much better players to platoon with you for a long time, and, second, once you're 'tooning with whatever clan recruiters for the clan you're trying to join, they'll spot the fact that you're not very good quite quickly.

Everything else is e-peening.

Of course; the side debate was to establish that this actually WAS a case of bad play being fostered, as opposed to an honest mistake. My position is that it wasn't an honest error, based on Crabs' narrative, but rather genuinely bad play spurred by a desire to farm WN8.

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Yeah, so your forced to play with shitters in tier 10 all day long, nice plan ! (sarcasm)

 

i now play tier 10 for that wz mission, and its so terrible after 5-10 games im glad i can play some tier 6/7/8, i rather play churchill VII as STB, less arty, less tds, less total idiots, less fail platoons and less 15-0 or 0-15 games.

 

as i said 10x before including on official forum: Wot is the only game where the highest tier has the worst players, in any other game players become better as they advance, except in wot, here the average player skill drops.

 

Perhaps its EU only, i dont care, point stands, tier 10 players are WORSE as tier 7-8-9 players, tier 10 would be the same level as bad / awefull as tier 4, and no coincidence, since tier 3-4 is also terrible (steamrolls, tds, arty, total idiots)

 

TL:DR tier 10 is only more frustration as tier 7-8-9, its not more skill, far from, you get far more steamrolls and autodefeats, instead removing tier 1-4 and tier 10 from WN8 would make even more sense, since dark red 42% idiots wont be able too boost wn8 in tier 10, same people can no longer profit from ridiculous low expected dmg (because of all said shitheads) why else has T62 suchs low dmg? its because ppl are to terrible on tier 10....

Wtf are you smoking. 

 

Read what i said.

 

Remove sub tier 7 from wn8.

 

Who cares if the actual skill level is worse in tier 10s. I assume everyone is shit no matter who they are. At least if you're counting from tier 7 + the few decent players you see not shitter red are that much more valuable.

 

Jesus christ you. 

 

 

I love that on this sight, this ass hat can be called out on his shit.

 

GJ Crab

 

 

An error occurred

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lesson is actually to just play without xvm.

Unless I recognize the name, I don't really have any particularly high or low expectations of either my teammates or the enemy team. I just play the game.

This.

When I started to play without xvm, became more consistent.

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This.

When I started to play without xvm, became more consistent.

Sole reason i kept XVM was last known, and rough view range circle. This upcoming patch will ensure drop of xvm 

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Sole reason i kept XVM was last known, and rough view range circle. This upcoming patch will ensure drop of xvm

On the xvm website you can turn xvm stats off, we off, and everytHing stat related off. I kept the circle and the last spotted, but that's it.

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Yet when I raised in 2013 the point that wn8 will influence a specific play way more than 6/7, a hail if rage and hatred was spewn my way

 

but now I guess its ok to state the obvious.

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I hate on this site you can quote a three page post without spoilers just to say this.

 

LTP (learn to post)

Im sorry about that. Thanks to jack for editing. I was on my phone, and when on my phone I have issues with Multiquote and Reply functions. [its my fault I shouldn`t post on phone.]

 

Either way, Im glad there is a forums where people can call out others by name for dumb shit. Just like how jack called me out on my dumb shit. By doing this, he has shamed me into trying harder. IMO this is a huge problem on WOT forums. No one can be called out on things.

 

It`s a very powerful teaching tool, and often times when not used can be a bad thing.

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On EU forums you can, minus name calling. You get negrepped to shit if you show tomatos and wannabes their faults, but mods often allow it. If the threads go on for a while your negreps disappear because the clan section hoggers pop over to the General Discussion when someone links shitlord opinion threads in Twitch chat. I received a dozen negreps and also a dozen upvotes yesterday for calling out two shitlords. Forums are fun.

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That's not really how the G recruitment process works. The recruiter looks at the dossier of the individual in detail, no doubt, but that only allows him to clear the first bar. Subsequent to that there is several weeks of platooning with the recruiter and designated talent evaluators before you get to join. And stuff like this guy's play is absolutely looked at. 

 

I'm sure there's quite a bit more to it. I don't know because I know I'm NOT a -G- caliber player. My argument is, let's assume for just a second I *am* a -G- caliber person. My stats don't show that I am. I would never even get my foot in the door with -G- to get to the point where I could platoon with -G- guys and DEMONSTRATE I am a good player. And I'm not just singling -G- out here and saying you guys are *insert WoT specific list of pejorative terms here*. I'm saying to get ANYTHING approaching credibility, you have to have a high Wn8/winrate. Given a choice of doing the Action A (doing dmg) or Action B (heading back to try to clear cap), an overwhelming majority of WoT players will do the quickest, easiest and most profitable thing: doing dmg.

 

It's the curse of Wn8. For all it's flaws, it's what we have. Wn9 and Wn10 will likely have their own flaws and once they're fully understood, people will tailor their gameplay to 'farm'.

Many people are STILL missing the point.  The OP was not about whether this or any metric is flawed (or can be modified to show something more or less useful in battle), nor whether this one guy is a shitlord.  It's about how playing to a COMPLETELY EXTERNAL metric does harm to the game, because people are going to obsess over it and focus on it at the cost of doing things that will help your team win.  He's right about that.  The metric INTERNAL to the game is WR.  

 

Who cares whether platooning pads it.  If you have a great WR from 'tooning with much better players over a long time, first, congrats on getting much better players to platoon with you for a long time, and, second, once you're 'tooning with whatever clan recruiters for the clan you're trying to join, they'll spot the fact that you're not very good quite quickly.  

 

Everything else is e-peening.  

 

 

Yes, I agree with everything you said with the exception of your assumption that platooning with better people does nothing more than hide your flaws and get you carried and that you'll be exposed once you platoon with potential new clan recruiters. I would argue that a player capable of becoming a GOOD player is going to actually LEARN when platooning with better people. I admit I prefer to platoon with better people, not to be carried but to LEARN. A lot of the guys I platoon with tell me when I'm doing something stupid or I can watch and emulate their behaviors.

Sole reason i kept XVM was last known, and rough view range circle. This upcoming patch will ensure drop of xvm 

 

Actually, I doubt that. I think a LOT of players run XVM and focus 'better' players. Others run it for e-peen reasons and to talk shit. The addition of XVM like features to the vanilla client will probably NOT result in any real reduction in XVM use.

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Wtf are you smoking. 

 

Read what i said.

 

Remove sub tier 7 from wn8.

 

Who cares if the actual skill level is worse in tier 10s. I assume everyone is shit no matter who they are. At least if you're counting from tier 7 + the few decent players you see not shitter red are that much more valuable.

 

Jesus christ you. 

 

You want to remove below tier 7 because its for:

- statpadding?

- sealclubbing?

- only noobds?

- no skill needed to win?

- other reasons?

 

Well, tier 10 is:

- more statpadding (t62 anyone?)

- no sealclubbing, but see below:

- equal amount of noobs, if not plain more...

- equal amount of ``skill`` needed, if not more, since you have more influence, so less steamrolls (one way or the other)

- other reasons?

 

tier 6 is better balance, both tankwise as skillwise as tier 10, so dropping tier 1-6 from wn8 but keep tier 10 makes no sense, IF you would wanna drop teirs from WN8, drop tier 1-4 and tier 10, those 5 tiers are filled with beginners, sealclubbers and total retards, but since most wn8 farmers are too busy farming wn8 in tier 10 meds while keep tellign eachother how much many skill tier 10 med HEAT spam is, im sure nothing will change.

 

ps: blues might think tier 10 is more skill as tier 7 or 8, but once you reach purple (and not 2700 wn8 hellcat spam purple....) you see that on tier 10 people are on average equal shit as on tier 6, and that on tier 8 you have BETTER teams and BETTER teamplay as on tier 10, this is the inconvenient truth many people on wotlabs dont want to hear ``tier 10 highest tier most sill`` is blatant nonsens, the gameplay is terrible, the teams are terrible and the game itself is terrible (on that tier)

 

TL:DR: gameplay and skillwise tier 8/9 would be the peek of wot, so if tiers have to be dropped because *reasons* it should be tier 10 just as much as tier 4....

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Blaming XVM is silly.  People will make idiotic plays with or without it.  My main use of XVM is that it allows me to decide if informally teaming with another player makes sense, or to decide whether or not to listen to chat, or if I should "follow" him on command.  Of course, it also lets one know if the opposing T-54 is DEADLY or not.

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Blaming XVM is silly.  People will make idiotic plays with or without it.  My main use of XVM is that it allows me to decide if informally teaming with another player makes sense, or to decide whether or not to listen to chat, or if I should "follow" him on command.  Of course, it also lets one know if the opposing T-54 is DEADLY or not.

That's sort of the point though.  Depending on how you have XVM configured, and how the person in question got those stats, it can be very misleading.  It can give you a general idea, sure, but relying on it to know how competent someone is (friend or foe) can get you in trouble

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