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Is The Leopard 1 really any good?

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 I was playing my Leo PTA the other day when a couple of 2200+ WN8 players told me that the Leo 1 was shit and not worth grinding to. therefore my question to you is Should I:

a. finish the grind and buy the Leo 1

 

b. finish the grind but not buy the Leo 1

 

c. Pick up the 13 90 and grind to the BatChat

 

d. pick up the T49 and grind to the T57

 

e. start a completely new line (Russian mediums?)

 

any advice/criticism is openly welcome

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Not really a purple player but I think I know why people would think that way.

The Leopard provides everything you could ever hope for in a tank: maneuverability, good camo, high top speed, flexibility, great gun soft and hard stats..... everything EXCEPT for armor. And in a game where the meta is progressing ever faster to pure brawling, this beautiful gem is having a hard time fitting in. I'd say that for a green/soft blue player like me, it's still a fun tank but it's no fun being hit by full damage HE shots and ammo-racked by arty

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The Leopard 1 is a majestic creature, but very demanding of the player.

It's lightning fast, hits everything it turns it's baleful gaze upon and in return gets good depression, camo and sexy curves.

It also has no armour. It cannot brawl. So your ability to carry a win is reduced in comparison to an armoured RU Med, E50M or STB-1. However this is just a reduction, you can still contribute the fuck out of games by being literally able to snipe the wings off of a fly at one billion meters. The extreme mobility provided by excellent speed and traverse means you can donkey punch your foes by effective peekaboom using cover and bait. When you consider the holy trifecta of carryhard - armour, firepower & mobility, it ticks 2/3 and that means it can do wondrous things.

10/10 would recommend if you are fully aware of and able to mitigate the lack of armour. Elite crew mandatory as well, imo.

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I'm far from best Leo player, but in my opinion it is not very good. It is really fun and challenging to play, but at least for me it kind a lacks consistency. In good map with good match up it is good, but then there are so many maps that just doesn't fit it at all, where something like T62A or even Batchat can still be very usefull. For me it feels like "9.5" tier tank, not really equivalent to many other 10's. It is at it's best when there are a lot of tier 10 tanks, if there are like three on each team and you have Leo 1 and other team has E100, T57 or something like that and it's not Prokhorovka I feel that most of the time Leo just can't compete. Leo can't challenge pretty much any tank it faces, it's pure support tank. Something like AMX 13 75 suddenly becomes very scary tank, it will rush you, pen every shot and ammorack you at least once. Thing I also hate when playing Leo is that EVERYONE will ALWAYS shoot you if they can, no matter how many other targets are available. So in addition to having no armor it also takes more fire than for example E50M.

 

But then it sure rewards for good play and it is very fast and fun to drive around map. Play it in platoon and hope for good map. It is worth grinding for sure, but it's kind a niche tank still. Bit like Maus but in opposite way.

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Objectively speaking, it's weaker than most other meds atm in the current map pool because its effective hp is basically its nominal hp value, i.e. it doesn't bounce shit. Most RU med drivers bounce about 0.4-0.5 damage for every point of damage they receive. The E-50M bounces even more on average. This can translate to 500-800 extra effective HP which is a very big deal if you're into winning. It has very good accuracy but it is tied with the 4202 for having the worst dispersion on hull movement which means it's not great at snap shotting. The ammo rack is also hilariously fragile.

 

But in the bigger scheme of things it's not *that* bad. Having good depression makes it much easier to play and do damage compared to RU meds; if you suck with low depression you're going to take more damage in an RU medium fishing for it, I'd wager. Good hard accuracy also translates to higher effective DPM since you land/pen more shots if you have time to aim.

 

Too many people do great in it and/or really enjoy playing it that it's difficult to say it's not worth playing. Give it a try and you might just love it. I personally think everyone who does well in the Leo would do even better in the E-50M anyway (which in my mind is the best damage AND win farming medium atm) but whatever; you should play what you enjoy.

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I usually prefer the Leo1 over the 50M for its extra speed, gun depression, and view range. The M is great when pubbies shoot your strong armor, but unfortunately I never have that happen enough for it to be really worth it. I really only enjoy the M in small doses.

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If you're good at padding with hellcat you'll do fine padding with Leo 1, I am going for the Leo myself, so I recommend buying it. Also t49 is one of the best tanks to have fun in once you learn to play it well. Full pen on tier tens ass is hilarious, it's also essentially an antiscout, and antiarty. Thoroughly enjoyed the grind.

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(Haven't played 50m, so can't give full opinion). However, armor is being less and less useful with the amount of goldspam+big guns (see 183/4005, waffle), so (I think) the e50m is steadily being powercreeped. On the other hand, the Leo is not effected by changes of meta as much, and as such it can consistently do a hell of a lot of damage. Sure that may be the only quality that makes it worth it, but good god does it do it well. Couple that with the best agility (for sure at T10, possibly in the game) and more spotting potential than you could dream of, it makes a damn near perfect tank. The trick is to not get shot, abuse the fuck out of camo+excellent gun dep (you get -2 more on the sides iirc), and always keep moving, or shooting. If you want more info on playstyle/map locations I can provide them.

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It's more fun than 90% of the tanks in the game for me. That's good enough.

 

It's a great tank. If you enjoy the PTA, or even find it merely passable, then the Leo 1 would be rewarding to play. Only issues with it are the bloom on the move and the lack of armour.

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Can confirm: Gun accuracy, mobility and fun factor are phenomenal. You feel like you are driving a hovercraft with a laser.

 

Tank does not like to be hit just like the leo pta.

 

imo get the Leo 1 and the Bat. Both different playstyles, both high skill ceiling and immensely rewarding tanks. 

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IMO the Leo is harder to play than it used to be, but it can still be an effective tank. When it was first released, it didn't have such fierce competition in its ecosystem, and there were more open maps it could have a direct impact on. Since then, map changes, the introduction of new tanks (waffle, Brit TDs, STB, Conq GC, new light tanks), and accuracy buffs have made playing the Leo a lot more challenging than it used to be. That's not to say it isn't good anymore.

I don't think there is a more awareness-dependent tank in the game, and as such, it's a great educational tank if you want to improve as a medium driver. It can teach things like effective HP trading and when to conserve HP, how to stay effective with low HP, how to decide initial positioning, how to scout and gain vision control, map comprehension (when to push and when to fall back or flex, finding split-second openings to get shots), using your speed to your advantage throughout the game, being aware of where enemies are looking, whether or not they fired, and how long their reload is, etc. Once I played the Leo for a few hundred games, I noticed how I was improving in my other mediums as well. I'm sure others can say the same.

My only real issue with the Leo is the fact that in the majority of situations it relies on enemies looking somewhere else to get damage. Too many times I feel like it gets "empty" damage. It's easy to get 4500 damage shooting at lights and tanks crossing the open, but if you can't stop the enemy heavies and TDs from rolling a flank, what good is that 4500?

That to me is why I'd use the E50M over the Leo.

(Haven't played 50m, so can't give full opinion). However, armor is being less and less useful with the amount of goldspam+big guns (see 183/4005, waffle), so (I think) the e50m is steadily being powercreeped. On the other hand, the Leo is not effected by changes of meta as much, and as such it can consistently do a hell of a lot of damage. Sure that may be the only quality that makes it worth it, but good god does it do it well.

I don't see how you could say the E50M is being power creeped but the Leo isn't. The E50M trades less speed for a better gun and the ability to bounce some shots. If you want to carry more games, drive an E50M.
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My only real issue with the Leo is the fact that in the majority of situations it relies on enemies looking somewhere else to get damage. Too many times I feel like it gets "empty" damage. It's easy to get 4500 damage shooting at lights and tanks crossing the open, but if you can't stop the enemy heavies and TDs from rolling a flank, what good is that 4500?

 

 

This was exactly my problem with Leo, it just doesn't have power to really fight enemy, immediately if someone starts shooting you you must take cover, move away or do something else to stop them being able to shoot you. I found Leo very hard tank to win with when playing alone. When comparing to other T10 light Batchat, BC still has it's huge clip damage that makes people think twice before rushing it. Many times Leo has speed to take important locations, but no ways to keep them once slower enemy mediums arrive, so in a way I feel that speed is wasted in many situations because you just don't want to be first anywhere. Of course speed is still good when you need to get out of there...

 

Leo still seems to be my 4th most played tank. Maybe I need to try it again, haven't played it in months at all I think. It's probably going to be Ensk/Kharkov/Pearl river all day.

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i love my leopard. currently, bulldog, LTTB, STB1 and leo are my favourite tanks.

 

im not gonna sit here and give you a pro con list as you can easilly find that elsewhere, but i find that i started to play "relatively good" when i learned how to play scouts. i see the leo as an extension of that. its hopelessly weak armour is teaching me not to trade and go YOLO too soon. its speed and agility is amazing. whilst only very very very slightly slower on its top speed to the bat (i think) it turns a hell of alot quicker and allows me to scout better, flex better and circle tanks better.

 

if you have ever had a batchat or played one or still own one and think "i wish there was a non autoloader option so i dont have to break engagement after 20 secs to reload" then this is exactly for you.

 

i use optics, rammer, vert stab, manual repairs and 1st aid. i do have auto fire extinguishers, not that it needs it in my opinion, but if i am going full goldtard, i use chocolate for added va va voom!

 

it is harder to play than an E50M (which i also own) but i find it so much more fun. i always pick Leo over my E50M.

 

i don't know wether its better than batchat or not. my opinion may be jaded by the fact i have had the bat alot longer than most of my other tanks, so i may have got "bored" of it, but certainly for Cwars, bat chat trumps leopard because of its autoloader and camo, but pubbing i still rate the leo as fun or more fun than bat,

 

i just finished T49 and that line was so fun, and thats when i started to play better. im on the T54E1 now, and having played the T57 before, its good but i prefer meds

 

russians meds, Y U NO HAVE ONE ALREADY? its freaking russian serb bias, and the main stay medium of any clan (140 and t62a are interchangeable, almost the same tank). still find leo more fun though.

 

i guess it comes down to ambitions? if you want to go clanwars, go for batchat or rusky med, if you want a pubstomper, i have heard T57 is nice, shits and giggles go leopard.

 

ps, dont look at my leo stats, im still quite shit in it, but like i said, i play it to force me to learn purple concepts the hard way!

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I think I'm one of the rare people that loved Leo PTA. Well, Leo 1 is everything PTA is just better.

 

Although, I have no idea how I managed relatively easy to maintain 60% win rate in PTA, and be barely positive in Leo 1 :) .

 

It is very good tank, and it is very worth going for it.

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Although, I have no idea how I managed relatively easy to maintain 60% win rate in PTA, and be barely positive in Leo 1 :) .

 

 

When I got Leo 1(it was my 4th T10 tank I think) I had exact same problem, damage, exp and everything was ok but I just could not win in it. I think that this is Leopards problem, it just can't match other T10's in things that usually win games, you need to be really good to make big enough impact just supporting. Not impossible as good players have shown but more difficult than for example in heavies where you basically just need to drive to right place to win at least more than 50% of your games. PTA is less often top tier so it's not as big problem, and T9 is easier anyway. As I said I think Leo is best when there are lots of T10's in game so it can do its support thing without pressure to push anything. 

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Many times Leo has speed to take important locations, but no ways to keep them once slower enemy mediums arrive, so in a way I feel that speed is wasted in many situations because you just don't want to be first anywhere. 

The Leo isn't really about getting places first.  It's about exploiting gaps, hit-and-fade, and power flexes.  Admittedly, the meta has moved away from these things, but when the opportunity arises, there aren't many things that fill those roles better, not even the Batmobile.

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Your talking about gaps your team mates leave when they fade without hitting anything? Or maybe hit-and-fade refers to hitting once and then seeing your hitpoints fade? And "power flexing" must be politically(wotlabically?) correct term for "oh shit my team is dead again I will go a0 and snipe".'

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The Leo isn't really about getting places first.  It's about exploiting gaps, hit-and-fade, and power flexes.  Admittedly, the meta has moved away from these things, but when the opportunity arises, there aren't many things that fill those roles better, not even the Batmobile.

In fact it is very good in going to places first. Shoot once or twice, then  retreat and let the heavies take over.

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Just want to say that I got the Leo today and I friggin love it!  It might actually surpass the object 140 as my favorite tank.  It is also, thus far, my best performing tank by a considerable margin (3646 dmg, 1.9 kills/game over 43 games).  Just seems to fit my skills and tendencies a bit better than the 140. 

 

Having said that, it's certainly more map (and teammate, for that matter) dependent than the 140.

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Yeah Leotard1 is a great and fun tonk.

Grind the fuck out of that Leo PTA.

If you enjoy PTA, you will love the Tard 1.

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If you enjoy PTA, you will love the Tard 1.

This gives me hope.  I'm having quite a bit of fun with my PTA.  It frustrates me at times, but never seriously, and when I have the opportunity to give it a proper workout, it's the most fun I've had in this game.  I think it's my second or third-best WN8 tank.

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