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For a long time I've held the opinion that what the playerbase knows about clan wars and WG is a little detached since not many of their staff have ever participated in it (unsure of the situation in RU/EU though). I've watched the playerbase crap all over the campaigns that WG has suggested and implemented. Most experienced players will agree that the Rise of Americas event was horrible, and the current campaign started off pretty terrible, but over the stages we've slowly creeped back to "normality" of the best clans vs the rest with only a little ego-based infighting between the major powers. WG has been throwing gold hand over fist at the campaigns which has been making the community accept it and swallow it because lets be honest it's pretty damn profitable. While I can see and appreciate some of the goals WG is trying to achieve with the Campaign system, I also see them fighting with the player backed status quo and very little actually changing.

 

I've had my thinking cap on over the last couple of weeks and have been thinking of some campaign based events which could achieve the goals that (I assume) Wargaming wants to accomplish, while adding the experienced play perspective to actually ensure that these goals are met and at the end of the day, this being a game and all, it should be fun and rewarding.

 

So here are the goals I think WG is going for:

  • Increase total number of players actively participating in Clan Wars.
  • Increase total number of clans present at any given time on the clan wars map.
  • Drive player retention through dynamic challenges instead of static landholding.

Thanks to these goals/initiatives, we have seen things such as:

  • Stages with a specific clan wars mechanic as the focus which provides slight changes to the chip movements and strategies.
  • Total gold paid out by WG being increased several fold.
  • WG actually taking an interest in their CW community!

However we have also seen some of the negative effects:

  • Clans disbanding due to various stages of burnout, not-caring-any-more, an overwhelmed leadership.
  • Down tiering to low tiers (I see this as a negative, as does every clan wars veteran).
  • The top tier clans wanting the rewards, so in general banding together against the newer ones.

There are others to add to these lists, but that generally covers how I see it currently working. I've seen plenty of threads and read plenty of posts where many CW veterans are calling WG out for various screw ups, changes they don't support to the meta, removing high tier clan wars for weeks, and most of all, completely failing to include the little guy in the CW scene as they desperately promised to. However, I've never seen a counter proposal to Wargaming that has survived the first 5 minutes of scrutiny from the veterans; and the ones that do usually have obvious flaws (by design or otherwise) which makes the proposal unacceptable to WG. So... here's my attempt.

 

My goals for the campaign:

  • Increase the total number of CW participants and clans participating on the map at any one given time - in line with WG's goals.
  • Add incentive for clans to want to combat other clans of their own calibre.
  • Reduce the effectiveness of 'super alliances'. What I mean here, is that allied clans and subclans can't benefit from the fighting performance of the main clan, as the main clan will be too busy dealing with their own side of the fence to be wielded as a threat.
  • Battles. There should be many. I should never hear Ziddy say "we only have the landing tonight in 3 hours" ever again. 
  • Nerf Diplomacy. I miss the days where 3-4 clans were considered allies and everyone else was hostile.
  • Provide ample landing opportunities for all clans to participate through. Many landings also = shorter tournaments.

That seems like a big ask, but I wrote most of those with a mechanic in mind to achieve each stage of the Campaign (i think stages are a good idea!). So, with the rambling kinda over I would like to share with you my draft of a better campaign.

 

Campaign 2: "High Stakes Terror-tory"

 

Campaign Length: 5 Weeks (35 days)

 

Campaign-long rules:

Increase gold worth of all provinces worth less than 300 gold/day so that no territory is worth less than 300 gold/day.

Critical provinces where daily value is > 3k/day has the gold value reduced by ~25%.

Set Landing zones on every coastal province of the Western Coast. Every 2nd province on every Eastern coastal territory, and every 3rd on Greenland (a map of what I think is best will come later).

Tank Locking is disabled for the duration of the campaign.

 

Pre-stage 1:

Map Wipe + Chip reset. All Provinces set to Civilian Owned.

 

Stage 1: Territorial Steak Dinner

Goal: Populate the map, limit clans to small territories.

Rules: 

Ransacking Disabled. Riot chance for every territory set to (10% * number of provinces owned by that clan, connected to the HQ or not). Tier limitations set to Tier 8 for the whole stage. Province HQ is located on cannot Riot if HQ has been present for > 2 turns. Counterspies provide no changes to Riot Chance. 

 

Day 1: Every non-critical province set to be a landing zone for Day 1 only.

Day 2: Incite a riot on every critical province (important: not a landing). Set Landing zones on every 2nd province on every coastal territory (every 3rd on Greenland).

Days 3-7: Set Landing zones on every 2nd province on every coastal territory (every 3rd on Greenland).

 

Victory Point Distribution:

Every province captured by Landing: +2500 VP

Every province captured by Riot: +4000 VP

Successful Landing Defense: +1500 VP

Successful Riot Defense: +1000 VP

1 VP awarded for holding provinces per 2 Gold awarded by that province.

All VP awarded by critical provinces (taking by riot, riot defenses and land holding) are doubled.

 

Why this will work:

Harsh Rioting will prevent clans from owning too large of a stake of property. Clans will be required to field multiple teams per night and simultaneously if they want to hold more than 3-4 provinces. Small clans will be able to take advantage of this and get in, especially as it is tier 8 combat. Standard critical provinces should spread the good clans around the map but also provide ample opportunity for mid tier clans to enter via Riot, and small clans to enter via Landings. The Riots on the 2nd day are just an interesting addition for clans to land in specific areas after the first day land grab is done - this will be hard to manipulate any benefit from, but will provide a theatre for upsets.

 

Stage 2: Neighborhood Watch

Goals: Encourage combat in the areas around landing zones. Give the top clans something else to do.

Rules:

Rioting enabled with double rioting chance compared to standard. Province HQ is located on cannot Riot if HQ has been present for > 2 turns. Ransacking a province provides 3 days gold income with 3 days cooldown.

Day 1-4: Tier 10s.

Day 5-8: Tier 9s.

Day 9-12: Tier 8s.

 

Victory Point Distribution:

Every chip removed from the map by your clan rewards 100 VP.

All provinces provide 50 VP per hour held.

All VP awarded by critical provinces are doubled.

Ransacking a province provides no VP, only 3 days worth of gold.

Provinces that are ransacked provide no VP by any method and have 100% chance to Riot for the duration of the ransack.

 

Why this will work: Well, the objectives here is time for battles to take place without some crazy mechanic going on. Clans earn VP by fighting, and this isn't exploitable as land holding clans can't stop rioting while spamming 2-3 stacks at each other, while a clan that is only holding 1-2 provinces certainly can. Small and mid-tier clans can battle and complete for VP while the bigger clans start getting in position and posturing for stage 3. By providing the mid/small clans with different objectives (ie, coastal) to the big boys (set up centrally for stage 3), there should be ample room for all. By being able to ransack to ensure a riot, this will enable top lvl clans to bring their subclans and friends in near the gold pot regions to ensure competition.

 

Stage 3: The Wealthy Get Wealthier

Goals: Give the major clans/alliances a reason to fight each other.

Rules:

Ransacking Disabled. Standard Riot Mechanics. Spies and Counterspies have 1/2 cost and training time. 

Map wealth rebalanced as follows:

All provinces on map rebalanced to provide 300-600 gold per day. All critical provinces become standard provinces.

The following provinces become critical provinces and worth 7.5k/day.

  • Western Zone: Ogden, GoldBelt, and Vegas.
  • Eastern Zone: Fort Knox, Cumberland Plateau, The Purchase and Johnson City.
  • Northern Zone: Wood Buffalo, Central Saskatchewan and Norman.

Every landing zone, where the landing is not the only province held by a clan gets claimed by Civilians and will be available for landing on Day 1.

 

Day 1-4: Tier 8s.

Day 5-7: Tier 9s.

Day 8-14: Tier 10s.

 

Victory Point Distribution:

Taking an enemy clan's HQ rewards 2000 VP.

Defending a Landing or a Riot rewards 500 VP.

Each normal province generates 1 VP per gold.

Critical provinces generate VP daily @ prime time based on: Critical Provinces Held * Days Held * 1000.

Critical provinces generate an additional 1000 gold and VP per day if a clans HQ has been present on it for more than 12 hours prior to primetime.

 

Why this will work: Mainly, greed it why this stage will work. There isn't enough critical provinces for all of the big boys to each get a share of what they want. As this is one of the stages where the winners are most easily controlled the big clans are gonna be going head first at each other over those critical provinces. Even if they are diplomatically split up and shared, there is a high chance of back-stabbing and alliance jumping. All the big boys will need to hunker down and brawl it out while the rest of the map does it's thing. The 'landings claimed by civilians' thing is so that the top clans competing in the centre cannot hold the landings in addition, this will ensure gud fites on both fronts, and/or a supporting clan in the rear. More clans will mean more chaos.

 

Stage 4: And It All Burns Down

Goals: Big epic brawl to end it on. A quick big world war to make sure all the trash talking gets done and the egos get stroked/upset.

Rules:

All Landing Zones removed. Riots and Ransacking Disabled. Spies and Counterspies have 1/2 cost and training time. Map wealth redistributed as per Stage 1. HQ takes 72 hours to respawn.

 

Day 1-9: Tier 10s.

 

Victory Point Distribution:

Mapping a clan's last territory: 2000 VP

Killing a clan's HQ: 2000 VP.

Doing both of the above at the same time: 5000VP total. (1000 bonus VP).

Every chip removed from the map by your clan rewards 50 VP.

1 VP awarded for holding provinces per 2 Gold awarded by that province.

At the end of the stage, 2 million VP will be split evenly among the the remaining clans present on the map, no matter how many provinces are owned.

 

Why this will work: Because it sounds like the CW that I've always wanted, and a big world war pissing contest is the best way to do this. This lets clans pick on each other, and provides adequate incentive to war on each other. Tier 10s baby, lets roll. This is 9 days of bleeding edge focused combat, where clans get to showdown and talk the talk. This isn't great for participation for all, but needs to be done to ensure the new players and the veterans are catered for alike.

 

At the end of the campaign (all 4 stages), VP will be converted to gold for clans at a rate of 1:1. 

 

I think with some medals and a free t10 tank, that would actually be worth competing in. I think I've ticked the boxes for new player involvement, existing player involvement, disrupting the diplomatic status quo, ensuring a good supply of good fights, and have a narrative campaign wise that makes sense.

 

------

 

What do y'all think? Would you like to see something like this?

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the whole low tier thing was wg wanting to let more people have a go at cw. the best way to achive that goal is to make a low reward t8 max map thingy. at least in theory it'd work. >.>

 

and sorry for random not related to campaign comment. >.>

 

 

also looks good but then again i have 0 cw experience >.>

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I would be SO PUMPED to play that kind of CW. That would make me power grind out to a tier 10 (and my 50100) and buy out all of my tier 9s right away to be ready for that.

 

+1s all over your face.

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This would  bring back some actual fighting instead of just having land swamp battles every day that aren't even battles for victory points. You get a +1 from me.

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I feel like stage 2 is missing some kind of mechanic. There are a couple of other things Id like to do (such as breaking up parts of the map into different tier zones etc) but I know these things aren't supported by WG. Everything I've written there should be available to do within the realms of what they have coded and are able to do.

 

@methebest - adding more land does nothing to the current issue with CW, in which there is no motivating factors for the top clans to fight each other long term. On the map there is 277 provinces, if you have a couple of stages where territory held is limited to 4-5 provinces each, then there is still room for 55 clans, which is 10-20 more than what are on there at the moment. I'm sure extra space would be gobbled and fought over immediately, but then there would be a stalemate where no one challenges the super powers which end up holding as much as they can. WG needs to bring back the desire to compete at the top level.

 

 

Anyone got any ideas/feedback? I'm thinking I'll submit the idea to Mugsy in a few days pending feedback and post it on the WG forums after I've rewritten some stuff to be a little more clear.

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I feel like stage 2 is missing some kind of mechanic. There are a couple of other things Id like to do (such as breaking up parts of the map into different tier zones etc) but I know these things aren't supported by WG. Everything I've written there should be available to do within the realms of what they have coded and are able to do.

 

@methebest - adding more land does nothing to the current issue with CW, in which there is no motivating factors for the top clans to fight each other long term. On the map there is 277 provinces, if you have a couple of stages where territory held is limited to 4-5 provinces each, then there is still room for 55 clans, which is 10-20 more than what are on there at the moment. I'm sure extra space would be gobbled and fought over immediately, but then there would be a stalemate where no one challenges the super powers which end up holding as much as they can. WG needs to bring back the desire to compete at the top level.

 

 

Anyone got any ideas/feedback? I'm thinking I'll submit the idea to Mugsy in a few days pending feedback and post it on the WG forums after I've rewritten some stuff to be a little more clear.

Doesn't seem to be too big of an incentive to really fight,50 or 100 VP may seem like a paltry sum compared to the other stages,more incentives for actual combat would be pretty cool,having the total fight count of a clan go to a multipler (20x?) and having it add to VP may encourage more smaller clans to participate and actually try to fight.

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Doesn't seem to be too big of an incentive to really fight,50 or 100 VP may seem like a paltry sum compared to the other stages,more incentives for actual combat would be pretty cool,having the total fight count of a clan go to a multipler (20x?) and having it add to VP may encourage more smaller clans to participate and actually try to fight.

 

100 VP per chip, 2 stacks of chips is 30 chips, defeat 2 stacks per night, 3k VP per night on top of defensive bonuses and 600 VP per province per day. I think it's enough VP being thrown out. I did a limited amount of thinking/forecasting on those values, and stage 1-2 are worth about the same, with stage 3 being worth more (for a few clans) and stage 4, the battle royale, being worth the most.

 

For the additional Stage 2 mechanic, i was thinking 'Ransacked provinces have 100% chance to riot for the duration of the ransacking (so will riot for 3 days straight). I have added this idea to the OP.

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For stage 4 you said to remove all landing zones and rioting. This would effectively close the map correct?  Whats to stop the big clans from shoving almost everyone off the stage before. I know you increased rioting overall but I'm sure the largest and strongest clans could manage to shove most clans off the map in the final few days of stage of 3.  Then in stage 4 when its almost only the strongest clans on the map they could just sit there and farm or shove off any other clans they deem unworthy of being on the map.

 

In addition I think some tiering might be needed for wargaming to consider it. Maybe setup stage 1 as tier VIII or IX only? Then the rest would be tier X.  nevermind, just noticed the downtiering over time. I am curious as to why that wouldn't be reversed though. start at tier VIII then move towards X for the end of the stage

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For stage 4 you said to remove all landing zones and rioting. This would effectively close the map correct?  Whats to stop the big clans from shoving almost everyone off the stage before. I know you increased rioting overall but I'm sure the largest and strongest clans could manage to shove most clans off the map in the final few days of stage of 3.  Then in stage 4 when its almost only the strongest clans on the map they could just sit there and farm or shove off any other clans they deem unworthy of being on the map.

 

In addition I think some tiering might be needed for wargaming to consider it. Maybe setup stage 1 as tier VIII or IX only? Then the rest would be tier X.  nevermind, just noticed the downtiering over time. I am curious as to why that wouldn't be reversed though. start at tier VIII then move towards X for the end of the stage

 

Yes, only the clans on the map at the end of stage 3 would be able to participate in stage 4 - without riots and landings there is no way for new clans to enter the area. I calculated that there should be approximately 40 landing zones around the map (pretty much every 2nd coastal region). Realistically there is only 20ish top level clans, of which most of them will be bickering over the stage 3 gold pots and trying to map each other off the map before stage 4 starts to worry much about what the mid tier and smaller clans are up to away from the god pots. Sure the next 9 days there will be many clans getting mapped, but the top level clans have more rivalry and desire to war than most people think they do. I suspect the previous 9 days of fighting eachother for top 5 spots in the stage will have built more than enough animosity to fuel stage 4.

 

In stage 4, your HQ goes on cooldown for 72 hours instead of 24 hours, and spies and counter spies are half price and training time. This means that espionage will be pretty rampant, and targeting someone's HQ due to this is very possible which will cripple a clans actions in stage 4. The big boys won't pass up and opportunity to map someone for the laughs or due to something happening previously in the campaign or smack talking in CR/D. I don't think stage 4 will be a big NAP fest (and I say that as an experienced diplo/chipmover/battlecaller). 

 

The reason for the changes of tiers is to make sure that parts of Stage 2 and Stage 3 are open for mid tier clans. Stage 4 kinda shuts our smaller and mid tier clans, and I think 9 days of campaign where their ability to participate is diminished is more than enough. The previous 26 days should remain reasonably open to all, even if the main objective in stage 3 is out of reach.

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Well thought out, you put a lot of time into this idea, now to somehow get it to the devs. 

 

I like anything that promotes fighting vs. farming.  I know the general scrub clan opinion is that the top clans aren't the best at fighting, but the best at diplomacy and having fought against many of them I can say that this opinion is a far cry from the truth.  Sure they work out NAPs with the other powerhouses to Profit with little Fighting, but when attacked they can be pretty ruthless.  They are the top clans for a reason, they have top players, top callers, well thought out strats and thus don't lose a whole lot.

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Maybe I missed it, but would tank locking be in effect during this or not?

 

Other than that I think that this is a brilliant idea and I honestly hope that WGNA implements this.

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Well thought out, you put a lot of time into this idea, now to somehow get it to the devs. 

 

I like anything that promotes fighting vs. farming.  I know the general scrub clan opinion is that the top clans aren't the best at fighting, but the best at diplomacy and having fought against many of them I can say that this opinion is a far cry from the truth.  Sure they work out NAPs with the other powerhouses to Profit with little Fighting, but when attacked they can be pretty ruthless.  They are the top clans for a reason, they have top players, top callers, well thought out strats, 3-4 full teams of players, have been playing CW on that map most nights for weeks and thus don't lose a whole lot.

 

Added a lil bit there.

 

Maybe I missed it, but would tank locking be in effect during this or not?

 

Other than that I think that this is a brilliant idea and I honestly hope that WGNA implements this.

 

Nope, I'll add that to the OP though. Tank Locking is evil. It has its benefits in the old style of CW, but the disadvantages that come along with it hurt small and mid tier clans a lot more than the top clans - and that goes against what I want.

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Added a lil bit there.

 

True, true.  The clans I have been in can pull together 2 teams just about any night, 3 teams some nights and very rarely 4 teams ever.  Plus even though we don't have an "A" squad, we certainly have players that are better than others, not to say that PBKAC, -G- or FORGE don't have a best team, whereas your top clans have enough top players to put 4 strong teams together.  You might have a player or two that this caller prefers, or a player that is really good at this role, but from my experience fighting against -G- their teams were rarely the same exact players, but were always top notch.  I think when we took Leningrad back when I was with [-__-] the next night when they reclaimed it they did bring their "A" team, but the night we beat them they had a solid bunch of players, Farva comes to mind, but can't recall all the rest and we honestly executed well and had some of the engagements go our way.  Short lived success.

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Nope, I'll add that to the OP though. Tank Locking is evil. It has its benefits in the old style of CW, but the disadvantages that come along with it hurt small and mid tier clans a lot more than the top clans - and that goes against what I want.

That is what I was figuring, but wanted to clarify. Another question, are you passing this along to WGNA?

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That is what I was figuring, but wanted to clarify. Another question, are you passing this along to WGNA?

 

I gave Q and Mugsy a link to this, but those guys don't usually like venturing over to the dark light side.

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I gave Q and Mugsy a link to this, but those guys don't usually like venturing over to the dark light side.

 

Yeah, I was going to plug my contacts about it, but wasn't sure of WGNA's stance on this forum in regards to their employees viewing/taking info from...

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I'm not even sure WG knows what their stance on this place is, it changed 4-5 times in the first week. CatStalker no longer browses or posts here though.

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I guess what I am asking is this. Do you think it ultimately would be better if this idea just got transplanted over to the official forums before you start bugging WGNA staff?

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I wanted to refine it a little more before I posted it over there. The ideas are there but I think the language I used could be improved (i wa pretty tired by about halfway through stage 2 and it shows). A job for later tonight.

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I fully understand that. I was just thinking given our simi- legitimate state that we wouldn't want to put any of our friends on the other side in a difficult position is all.

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my comment wasn't about adding more land but more making Africa max tier 8 during regular cw's if it ever comes back. was a bit off topic though.

 

though might work for campaigns if you cut down the main map and opened part of another for t8's though probably to much effort and they would probably complain about the lesser rewards which they'd have to have.  >.>

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