WaterWar

In-depth comparison of the tier VIII scouts by WaterWar (outdated)

48 posts in this topic

Wait what which did you pick?

TBH I am 10k exp away from the 13 90 and the ELC AMX is just F.U.N. (yeah capitals)... the 12t was okay and I am actually liking the 13 75 quite a lot...

I like what I have seen of the M41 bulldog but the T49 is a bit mweh... yes nice for derping around but not really a tank in any line up I can think of.

13 90, I got a good crew in my 12t and I have a mark of excellence on it so I figure I can perform better with the Frenchies and the camo rating and smaller size sealed the deal for me.

If I go up the USA line it will just be for the Bulldog.   I am shitty enough without a RNG slot machine to make me go full monkey rage so I am going to stay away from the T49 for the missions.

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13 90, I got a good crew in my 12t and I have a mark of excellence on it so I figure I can perform better with the Frenchies and the camo rating and smaller size sealed the deal for me.

If I go up the USA line it will just be for the Bulldog.   I am shitty enough without a RNG slot machine to make me go full monkey rage so I am going to stay away from the T49 for the missions.

Totally with you :D

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T49 is too RNG dependant to be viable for the missions (IMO). You can still do it. Heck, I did the LT-15 for the concept set in my T54lwt of all tanks. So you can do any scout mission in any of the tanks - some are just easier than others.

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T49 is too RNG dependant to be viable for the missions (IMO). You can still do it. Heck, I did the LT-15 for the concept set in my T54lwt of all tanks. So you can do any scout mission in any of the tanks - some are just easier than others.

 

The T49 actually works really well for the missions where you have to track an enemy and have your team mates do damage to them. Sure it doesn't work as well on some other missions, but the best way to complete the missions is to have a wide variety of tanks to choose from. Some tanks will do some thing better, and others will do other things better.

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Please note that Tank-Compare lists the camo of the WZ-132 at 19.35%: (http://tank-compare.com/en/compare/wz-132#T1=460I374I315I562I203)

Not that it'll make much difference overall, but at least the 132 now has one more niche.

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This weeks skirmish has been interesting to see how light tanks perform against each other without having to deal with other classes and tiers. We first tried 4 tier 8's, and a Chaffee. That ended up being bad because the Chaffee really couldn't contribute to the fight, it doesn't do enough damage and doesn't have enough HP. We ran into several 3xBulldog 2x1390 teams, which wrecked us at first until we found a good counter. Our counter is to run 3xBulldog and 2xRU-251 firing HESH. The DPM of the RU HESH is amazing since it reliably pens all tanks except the T-54lwt from most angles. We have usually been killing the 1390's before they even get loaded, or if they do load they only get in one shot. As I mentioned before the counter to the RU-251 is the T-54 lwt. You can't reliable pen the T-54 with HESH which means you need to use AP or HEAT. So instead of killing a tier 8 light tank in 4 shots with HESH it takes 6 shots  to kill the T-54. I haven't seen anyone use the T-49 or WZ-132, except if it's the only tier 8 light they can bring. 

 

One other thing I've noticed is that there are a lot more 1390's than other tier 8 light tanks. I had a lot of people wanting to join my team, but the only tier 8 light they had was a 1390, and often they also did not have a Bulldog. Plus all they guys on my team have the 1390 but not everyone had other tier 8 lights.

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O well, the forums don't let me copy and paste from a spreadsheet. The traverse speed stats on suspensions are misleading. If you factor in the engine power delta of the worst and the best engine, the T-54 LT gets 67.3, RU gets 55.4, T49 gets 48.4, 13 90 gets 56 and WZ 132 gets 56. In other words, WZ 132 isn't that much more mobile than the others and the T-54 LT is way better in that regard.

Traverse speed calculation (estimation?)

This was one attempt to calculate  traverse speeds, iirc. It would bring the T-54 ltwt beyond 60° per second because the difference in engines is pretty large. I think the WZ-132 doesn't turn better than the T-54ltwt, however, the T-54ltwt slides a lot and is thus less precise in turns.

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It is worth noting, as you point out, that turning too fast can be a bad thing. My T54lwt is the drift king of any of my tanks. Not even my Pz1C drifts as much. Quite fun when you are not in a hurry to escape, but considering LTs usually are in a hurry to escape it can be a bit annoying to have an unexpected Stalin Drift occuring.

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I know I'm pretty late to this topic, but I'll add some personal comments here:

Like others have pointed out, track traverse is directly linked to engine power. The WZ-132 has better on paper but not in practice, but since terrain resistance is a factor and what maps have this or that terrain it's not easy to give an actual number on how much better one tank can cross terrain over the other.
I've played mostly the T-54 lwt. recently but I've played a few WZ-132 games here and there. I will admit right off the bat my T-54 lwt. crew is slightly better since they have clutch breaking, but my WZ-132 has BiA instead. Other than that, mounting the 100mm makes the WZ-132 slightly heavier.

The T-54 lwt. seems much, much faster than the WZ-132. It picks up speed faster, turns faster, and loses less speed with turns. It also obviously has a higher top speed meaning even if all other things are equal, the T-54 lwt. still gets to location B from A faster than the WZ-132.
I've played the 13 90 a bit as well and to be honest, the WZ-132 feels closer to the 13 90 in terms of speed and turning than it does to the T-54 lwt., although admittedly not by much. But if we're being picky and saying that everything a scout can get in its favor, the WZ-132 is indeed notably slower than the T-54 lwt. I've compared them both in more than just mobility here but I'll leave it at this at least when it comes to mobility.

The armor on the T-54 lwt. is also a lot more than just the thickness alone. I am not gonna argue that in theory the T-54 lwt. has a good chance of bouncing anything a tier 9/10 tank lobs at it without RNG smiling upon it, but there's more to a tank's armor than just its pure thickness and angles.
As Rexxie pointed out earlier in that thread, you can't just look at the T-54lwt. and just assume the shot will go through. You have to put a little bit of extra care into aiming at it than other light tanks. Those few seconds of aiming, indecisiveness, or, in the case of other light tanks, gold round loading will in practice save you health and give you more time to escape.
- Here I would bring up the effectiveness of having moderately better side armor and much better front armor than most light tanks, but I don't remember how splash damage is calculated versus armor and being splashed by arty in a light is relatively rare so I won't do more than mention it. -

The 10m view range loss on it isn't much to talk about either. Assuming you have a 3 skilled crew, you're probably training your view range skills on your commander and radio operator anyway. This combined with optics on both tanks gives you 461m view range on the WZ-132 and 450m on the T-54 lwt. Both are over the 445m cap and the difference is only 11m. A notable difference in theory, but not in practice.
Very few maps still have camouflage play options and the ones that do rarely (if ever) have tanks at max spotting range losing enough camo that the difference between the 2 will be practical. Even when we're purely talking about countering camouflage from enemy mediums or lights, the same thing applies: it makes a difference in theory, but not in practice.
But again, I digress.

You also mentioned the RU251's HESH (which I actually wasn't aware of!) and this reminded me that the T-54 lwt. is the only tier 8 light frontally immune to penetration from it. The WZ-132 comes close to being immune, but the armor (combined with random angling) makes it more likely to resist being penetrated by it than not, so points off to every other scout but the WZ-132 and T-54 lwt.

That's about it really... a lot of words to describe very little, but that's how I roll.

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Maybe the OP should be updated with the true traverse speeds (taking into account the engine difference as well as terrain resistance)

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Maybe the OP should be updated with the true traverse speeds (taking into account the engine difference as well as terrain resistance)

Maybe. I am just lazy as fuck so I will add a note about this instead. :P

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For some reason i can't perform for shit in the Blackdog. I'm blaming this on the ghetto crew (just got the commander, immediately paid gold to refit to 6th sense. I'd forgotten how terrible it was to play lighta without 6th.) FFS, my survival rate is like 10%…

 

it does get 100 pen HEP rounds, which are hilariously useful.

 

also, is the fully aimed accuracy actually that bad or it is just because my gunner can't lay off the lager?

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On 4/5/2016 at 1:47 AM, Th3GoldenDragon said:

also, is the fully aimed accuracy actually that bad or it is just because my gunner can't lay off the lager?

F aiming; this tank is a snapshot pro.

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On 4/4/2016 at 11:14 AM, sundanceHelix said:

This is gonna need updates for the 90mm German Bulldog, right? Pweeease? :party:

No, as that thing is a premium tank and therefore not readily available for everyone. Besides, I dont have it myself. Thirdly: the "new" motion physics update throws a curve ball at the scouts. I have to re-play all of them some more to see how it affects the mobility between them.

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Also upcoming nerf to T-54 LT should be taken into account :). No sweat though WaterWar as it really shouldn't be that significant.

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All guides will become outdated with time. It should be up to people individually to check up on smaller changes. Besides, hopefully my guide has shown people how they can compare the tanks by themselves :) 

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With the total light tank rebalance it might be worth considering unpinning/updating/disclaimering this guide :)

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