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Is tier IV as bad as it feels?

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I'm helping a friend get into the game and platooning with him as he goes up the tiers, and it feels like tier 4 is a horrible brick wall. He is playing a few tanks, but mainly the t-28 because I suggested the Russian heavies as a pretty good starting line to learn. A problem is that nearly every tier 4 tank is worthless for one reason or another. The one decent tank I've found is my cutie pie 105 Hetzer because it can be hilarious and rack up 1000 damage in the right situation, but even then the view range is dangerously low.

 

The MM feels awful. Can't see tier 2's, but can see tier 6, so feels like we get bottom tier a lot. The once in a blue moon top tier game Hetzer armor OPOP drive forward and rack up tears, but in every other situation it's a case of HOPING that our heavies know what kind of tank they're driving, and being often disappointed. VERY often. The impact that I feel I can have in those games is a lot less than at higher tiers.

 

So in my last ~100 games I've been running 800 WN8 lower than my recent, and sub 50% winrate for long stretches of battles, if you want that as a measurement.

 

Is it a small sample size? Am I just noob? Is there a way to make this a better experience for my friend and I that any of you could suggest?

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Yes. T4 in general is one of the worst tiers in the game. Your MM is -1/+2, tanks have shitty HP, no armor usually and guns are horrible even against T5 tanks let alone T6. There are some exceptions, but most of the time it's a horrible experience.

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Tiers 3 and 4 have the worst MM in game, at +2/-1. This means that you can see up to two tiers higher tanks (tier 5 and 6 in case of tier 4 tanks), but cannot see tier 2 tanks. That is because tier 2 tanks, with the exception of the T2 LT, can only see tier 3 tanks max.

 

In practice this means that you see less of the fodder tanks that you can bully, and more of the higher tier tanks that can bully you. Furthermore, tiers 5 and 6 are very popular tiers with a number of popular tanks (though likely less so since the Hellcat and KV-1S nerfs), and there is a population of preferential Tier 5s (Excelsior, Church III, T14, KV-220) who feast on tier 4s. The power gap between 4 and 6 is also significant.

 

All of this adds to up to a huge mountain for tier 4 to climb, whereas tier 5 is finally the breakthrough point with good tanks, +/-2 MM, and good moneymaking capability.

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dont think hetzer is that flexible overall, you could use the B1 that is the _best tank in the game, m8a1 is pretty good too.
at least arty at low tier is brainless so you get that going.
just don't be careless playing lower tiers I found myself not taking it as cereal as it should be and then wn8 goes rip.
push your 2 buttom to fire them skills gl with that:3.

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Tier 4 is very tough. There are a few gems (Hetz, Murder 38t, M8A1) but the majority of vehicles are just tough to grind through. Anemic guns, very few hitpoints and facing tier 6's.

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If your friend wants to stick with the current line, the T-28 can be a fun tank to play if you equip it with the accurate, high ROF 57mm (Zis-4, I think?) and don't try to directly brawl with it.  Throw on binos, spend the first few minutes sniping, and then move into active flanking when things have thinned out a bit.  It's fast and agile enough to get from spot to spot, but obviously has no armor to speak of and it can be hard to hide the huge butt from a crowd (for me, at least) if you get in too close at the beginning of the battle.

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I actually don't get why people say tier 4 is bad, tier 3 definitely but tier 4 has a lot of disproportionately good tanks in a tier range where every player is still full fledged retarded instead of merely borderline retarded as in tier 8+. You have:

 

-T-28 with an amazing gun and good mobility. It's vulnerable so it's more of a tank for experienced players, but even when I was new it rocked.

-T40, finally getting its overdue nerf, but the firepower and easy mode gun arc will mean it's still good.

-Covenator, a murder wagon with the 4 shot auto cannon. You need a lot of gold and it needs experience to control its exposure, so I can see why it's under-appreciated.

-Su-85b, also finally getting the nerf bat to view range, but will still have a rail gun option and a heavy alpha option on a sneaky, high camo platform.

-Matilda, fucking OP as hell armor with an easy mode gun. Its armor would be good on a tier 5 heavy, on a tier 4 it's borderline broken.

-Hetzer, with that slab of front armor and nuclear warhead gun. Also turns on a dime so it's less vulnerable to flanking than most TDs.

-M8A1: mobility, solid gun, view range, a turret, small profile. Not that accurate and the bad gun handling doesn't help, but it's a pretty strong set of properties nonetheless.

-T-80, sneaky little thing with a solid gun, enough armor to avoid stupid shit like PZ ICs or 105 one shots, with good enough mobility and camo.

-Alecto, good sniper with exceptional camo and good speed, will still have SOME view range after the nerf. Also small and hard to hit.

-Tier 4 version of the Stug, plays the same way.

-Marder 38t, fast, accurate gun, nice arc, camo, murderous little thing.

-VK 20.01D, strong turret, gun depression, good mobility. Gun only becomes good at close range with a lot of APCR, which is why people don't play it, too expensive.

 

Really the shorter list is what tanks are NOT good at 4: Valentine, B1, Soma, AMX 40, Lee/Grant. Some average tanks too, PZ III and such, but overall there are a lot of really good tanks in tier 4.

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Matilda is OP as fuck. That armor and pulse laser of gun is made for bullying retards.

Also great for stug IM, where you still can use tier 4.

Kill 3 lights or tds or whatever. Matilda does it in first or second match. Set someone on fire lol. My platoon mate raped kv1 in engine done. In second match i set someone on fire machinegunning him in front armor. So OP.

T 28 is actually great t4 tank. I also platooned my rl mate, and he got through it with 52%. Which is excellent score for a noob player in a paper tank.

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T-28 is a perfectly decent tank, even if the tier itself sucks as a whole.   You can't run a crap crew in it, though, and you're going to want equipment.

 

You can't take hits so you really need to be lame with it.

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-VK 20.01D, strong turret, gun depression, good mobility. Gun only becomes good at close range with a lot of APCR, which is why people don't play it, too expensive.

 

Don't know why you'd take the 2001 over the Panzer III, the Panzer does everything the 2001 does, but better.

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So far, the 4s I'd recommend the most:

M8A1

T40

B1

Hetzer

Matilda

Most at the tier is a pile of junk against 5s and 6s. Get your friend in to tier 5 and everything will get better.

fify plus ...The Luch with the 30mm cannon is a blast too.

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Tier 4 is actually a good tier with a lot of good tanks...but your first Tier 4 tank is and always will be absolute hell. It doesn't matter what tank, either. Take a speedy little accurate Tier 4 tank capable of invisiraping Tier 6 heavies (when well-played) like a T40, M8A1 or Alecto, and it's still gonna be painful if it's your first Tier 4...because as has been said, you only see one tier lower but two tiers higher.

Out of all the tiers, your first Tier 4 is the most painful.

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Tier 4 used to be clubber paradise for 390-400m viewrange TDs (that could easily carry games from bottom position as well). But not anymore. With the map changes and viewrange nerfs, I don't really see anything fun about the tier. Like many people explained, due to asymmetric MM you don't see much bottom tier food yourself, and you are bottom tier often. The tanks have very little HP (for TDs this is almost 3 times less than next tier heavy tanks of difference, which is one of the biggest % differences in the game), so they are bound to camping, very dependent on camo and easy to kill with a single shot. Finally, there's a LOT of derpguns on the tier (and the tier above) that can simply erase you with a single strike, and a lot of total noobs who still get lucky and snapshot you for 450 HE damage that oneshots you no matter whether it pens or not 90% of the time.

 

Adding that together, you often end up in a corridor map with 250 HP TD, expected to face numerous tanks with guns that oneshot you instantly, with no bushes anywhere on the map to make any use for camo. Making the supposedly easy "sealclubbing" tier something that takes an obnoxious amount of map awareness, timing and sometimes luck.

 

I wouldn't bother. Tier 5 is the first "fun" tier after tier 2 if you want to have low tier action. There are exceptions, but they are almost exclusively limited MM prems like T-127.

 

On tier 3, I wouldn't bother playing anything that isn't T-127 or SU-76i if you were lucky to get it. Tier 3 against tier 5 feels like a cheat, and even many tier 4 tanks will give you hell due to armor/alpha/dpm gap that is HUUUUUUUUGE.

 

On tier 4, there's the premium german B2 that is always top tier, and the viewrange drop of TDs makes it a very powerful clubber. Other than that, most tanks are just meh, too weak against the numerous T5 and T6 vehicles on the current map pool.

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I think the problem with tier 4 for new players is that the tanks get quite different and that it actually has a lot of good tanks in tier.

You don't even need tier 5s and 6s, if I get into tier 4 games with my Luchs, it feels a little like seal clubbing. Matilda is also hard for people who don't know its week spot or tactics to deal with it. You've got tier 3 and tier 4 derps to worry about. The view ranges and camo game starts. There is just so much to consider that tier 4 can seem overhelming to new players. T5 and T6 tanks of course don't help.

All those tanks that are listed as good tanks are also only good if you know what to do with them. The T-28 has a great gun (the same as the T34, if I remember correctly?), but is killed easily. The Matilda has a great gun and armor, but you need to decide early where you need to be. I completely suck at the Hetzer and I don't know why. The Luchs is so fucking great and I can hunt KV1s with it all day, but it needs a good crew and you need some experience to know if you can assassinate a target or not.

I think tier 4 is worth to be revisited after one has some experience with Tier 5 tanks.

Oh, and tier 4 is also rather chaotic. I know that I can do much more in my Luchs in Tier 5 battles than in Tier 4 battles and play a little more risky. My objectively worst game with the Luchs was a game with only two tier 4 tanks, the rest was tier 3 and I was derped right away.

My advice would be to platoon something with armor or speed with your friends T28 so you can distract enemies while he can stay back and get some High Caliber medals with its great gun. :)

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